Elliejay39 v Abbey (guru needed!!)

[elliejay39]

Louis...what's your view?

[Guest louis wu]

When this site was new, it was not unusual for claims to be 'estimated', as the SAR's request was treated as a joke by the banks.

 

Things have changed a bit, though, and its rare now to estimate. I think the banks may challenge the amount of the claim, if they could seperate it from the 'fees are unlawful' question.

 

Having said that, providing you only estimate to LBA stage, including your reasons for the estimation, then its difficult to argue against it (bearing in mind I have no legal knowledge of course), as the reasoning seems sound.

 

Can you just explain this

 

If they haven't arrived by time of submission can the non-compliance be included with the claim

 

are you thinking of claiming for their non-compliance. If so, you will have the chance to add your 'costs' later in the process, and it can be added then.

 

/when they subsequently arrive the claim amount could be changed at a cost of £35 which is also added to the claim

 

This is non claimable.

 

Louis

[elliejay39]

Forget about estimating as that kind of clouded the issue.

A non compliance of Data Protection Act ultimately ends in court (not talking about damages just want them to give me my data) so my suggested plan is to

send prelim detailing charges already supplied at the same time as sendign non-compliance letter to abbey for missing data. this would then need to be followed through with court if they didn't comply in the run up to court action

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

Commence a county court claim in the same way as you would for money - however, in the particulars of claim you need to specify that you require the bank to provide the information as outlined in the original Data Protection Act request.

 

My query is whether the two claims (one for data one for charges) can be combined.

I did think that if the claim need to be changed due to additional charges not initially supplied (as would be in this case or through further charges being added) then the £35 could be reclaimed but I am probably wrong and stand corrected.

[Guest louis wu]

My query is whether the two claims (one for data one for charges) can be combined.

 

If you are not going to estimate, can you add the charges to you non-compliance challenge?

 

I think what you are suggesting would complicate matters, and my advice would be to treat them as totally seperate issues with regards to court action. I dont think its ever been tried before (certainly not in the posts I've read) and I'm far from knowledgable to know how/ifit would work.

 

Just my opinion of course, but caution would be my feelings on this.

 

Louis

[elliejay39]

ok then, but i could still start both procedures together but sticking strictly to timetables.

now - Submit prelim & non-compliance

1 week - commence court proceedings for DPA issue

2 weeks - submit LBA charges

4 weeks - commence court for charges

 

throughout this time courts will have their own timescale for hearings but presumably DPA would come up before charges(if they let DPA get that far) I could then amend charges claim if they had ommitted any in their initial spreadhseet

[Guest louis wu]

ok then, but i could still start both procedures together but sticking strictly to timetables.

now - Submit prelim & non-compliance

1 week - commence court proceedings for Data Protection Act issue

2 weeks - submit LBA charges

4 weeks - commence court for charges

 

Ellie, its important that whatever decisions you make, you are comfortable with them. If your looking for confirmation that his is ok, then I just can't give it because I honestly don't know.

 

Again, just my opinion, but I would stop at the LBA, and wait for the data. Thats not saying its right, but its the way I would be comfortable.

 

There is a slight danger that Abbey may defend the non-compliance more vigorously and you may find that yor hearing for charges comes first (just a scenario worth considering).

 

There are some legal experts here who would be able to give this the thumbs up/down, but without them I would be patient. I know its tempting to push it, and I don't know your personal circumstances, but if you can, take it one step at a time, its the safest way.

 

I'm genuinely sorry that I can't be of any practicle help to you.

 

Louis

[elliejay39]

I don't know why I am being so impatient (probably one G&T too many) My main concern is to pay off overdraft on this account, which charges will comfortably cover. One of the reasons I used the letter I did was to avoid them coming down hard on me and recalling the O/D. as soon as i send prelim I intend to start using parachute account but I know that as soon as they lose my regular salary payment they will demand repayment. So I suppose in my panic I was trying to make the time between then and settlement brief as possible. Your common sense is very helpful Louis. So non-compliance tomorrow then weekend off!

Thank you.

[Guest louis wu]

I think its sensible, albiet a bit boting.

 

Don't forget, if they do try to close your account, the worse that will happen is that a few more charges will go onto the A/C, and you'll have to claim them back. From now on in, there's not a lot they can do to you that can't be resolved in your favour.

 

Add that to the 8% interest thats accruing, and its a win/win situation.

 

Enjoy the rest of the weekend, have a rest from this, and have another G&T for me;)

 

Louis

[elliejay39]

cheers...!

[dizzy delilah]

Hey Ellie , Any news? Have you received anything back yet? Dizzy

[elliejay39]

I didn't send off until yesterday as i spent a lot of time considering my next move and making sure I didn't put my foot in it again!

How about you, are your 7 days almost up yet?

 

Ellie

[dizzy delilah]

I got an email from customer services who are looking into my 'complaint'- but I'm not to worry because they hope to deal with it within the next 4 weeks! Needless to say, next letter going off on Monday, which is when their 40 days are up. I hope you receive better than I did!

[elliejay39]

well Abbeys 7 days grace are over now and not a peep from them. Trying to decide my next step. What about you Dizzy?

[elliejay39]

Still no word from Abbey (escept to tell me of further charges to my account...!) I've now moved to my parachute account so expect them to get a bit nasty about the overdraft (particlularly as i've had almost £200 charges since sending original S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) meaning that I'm now in unathorised OD!). Laptop conked last week and I've had to resotre factory settings so have lost everything and had to spend the week putting back everything that had gone, restoring broadband link etc etc.... Anyway I will have to redo Abbey spreadsheets as I didn't have copies since they were incomplete, hey ho!

I think that I will take the claim forward using the info I have whilst moving forward with the DPA non compliance. If I find out the missing info in time then I will amend the claim (if its worth the £35) If I don't then my next stage anyway will be a pre 6 year claim so will just add on to that.

 

Ellie x

[dizzy delilah]

Hey Ellie, Got the microfiche copies of the spreadsheet this morning, so (fingers crossed) yours should be coming around now as well. Now I just need to find the time to sit down and scrutinise it..... Dizzy

[elliejay39]

Wow, I don't think I belived they would come at all. It will be interesting to find out whether there are any discrepancies.

Can't wait to get home and see if mine have landed...

[dizzy delilah]

Mine was almost accurate - I had charges listed for a particular month on the spreadsheet that were not on the microfiche! However, it still doesn't explain why they never seemed to charge me for unauthorised o/d's when they'd charged me for clearing transactions - FOR 2 YEARS! I'm not sure I've got a case to argue with them over that and they might think I've lost the plot if I query why they DIDN'T charge me when I'd have thought they would!! I think I might just leave that one alone and send my prelim letter in..... Did you get yours then?

[dizzy delilah]

I did say ALMOST accurate didn't I? On second checking, I found a £30 charge on the microfiche they sent me, that WASN'T on the spreadsheet for the same date !! The cheeky so and so's....... scrutininse them carefully Ellie!!

[ICY]

i had the same, there was a charge on the statementt but not on the spreadsheet, but in a wierd twist there was also 2 charges on the spreadsheet but not on the microfissche them sending the spreadsheet has actually meant they ar going to pay me more

 

surely a financial institution as large as abbey has a responsibility not to make silly mistakes like this, after all we are trusting them to deal responsibily with our money

[dizzy delilah]

Yeah, its worrying really. Are you still going to claim for the ones that were not on the microfiche - I suppose we have no choice but to really,because one version shows we have been charged, and its not our fault that their record keeping is poor. I don't really understand how they can have two forms of the same information -( supposedly), yet they don't even match up. I wonder which version they're going to use when they check my spreadsheet..... Still nothing, Ellie??

[ICY]

I will be using both in my claim

[elliejay39]

Hi,

No I've still not heard anything! My prelim letter went out a couple of weeks ago so its almost time for the LBA ( based on the spreadsheet). I'll wait & see what, if anything, turns up. I've been having a really stressful time at work so my thoughts have been elsewher and then losing my entire catalogue of letters really didn't help. Its funny but i've come across a few people on her and on a similar site who have had their computers crash in a similar way - maybe the banks are sending out viruses:-D :-D conspiracy theorist? who me...

Anyway reading about the discprepancies you two have found i agree that they're worrying, though not unexpected but at least they don't run into hundreds. Maybe they had an internal malfunction that prevented unathorised OD charges being calculated and charged?

Going to work on LBA this week and I have a court claim to prepare against Cap 1 so onwards & upwards and all that!

Good luck you two, keep me posted

 

Ellie

[elliejay39]

Quick update.

Not heard anything since prelim & LBA last week. Du to file in court on 22nd June. When I sent original prelim letter I also included a letter of dispute for current overdraft as I have moved to parachute account and salaryno longer going into Abbey. Just had a letter saying charges have taken me £215 over authorised limit with a further £100 to be debited next week. usual letter threatening CRA's etc so I'm sending this later today direct to person whose name is on most recent letter.

Dear Mr Betts,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:xxxxxxxx

 

As you should be aware, I have recently disputed the balance of my current account on the grounds of unfair and unlawful penalty charges which have been levied against me.

 

As this account is in dispute, I have stopped payments going in or out of them until the issue is resolved although as a gesture of goodwill I will make a monthly payment of £50 starting 22nd June 2007. Section 13.6 of the Banking Code clearly states that you may only pass details of my debts to the credit reference agencies if the debts are not in dispute. As previously stated, I have disputed these debts in writing, and the letters were received by you on 24th May 2007.

I would also like to mention that I am both shocked and appalled by the fact that you have decided to impose more unlawful charges on my account when it is in dispute.

I would like to remind you of The Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance in which it states: putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive This includes: Ignoring disputes about whether money is owed and refusing to freeze action if the debt is in dispute. I would also point out that Section 13.6 of the Banking Code clearly states that you may only pass details of my debts to the credit reference agencies if the debts are not in dispute. I hope to receive your full co-operation in this matter and would like to request a written response to that effect.

 

I would therefore be grateful if you would stop any charges on my accounts until my dispute is fully resolved, at which point I will pay off any outstanding balance. If you persist in imposing any further punitive charges on these accounts, they will be included in the amount I am claiming from you, and I will be forced to seek a court injunction to prevent you from taking any further action. I would also like you to take note that I will only correspond with you on these matters in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Ellie

[dizzy delilah]

Letter sounds good, Ellie. Will be interested to hear what the response is. I'm anticipating my 'go and get stuffed letter' anyday now...

[dizzy delilah]

Bank statement recieved today... £210.00 of charges . My better half will have a fit when he comes home tonight.