Help needed re Lowell Financial & CCA

[maggieboo]

Let us know how TS respond to this as im interested in what course of action they take, when i spoke to a senior legal advisor within TS a few months ago i was told they wouldnt take action agains a company for failure to comply with the CCA request although they would contact them if the pursued the debt after non-complaince, as they have complied with the CCA i dont see what can be done, wish you luck.

 

The advice ive been given is that as long as it comes with terms and conditions and is signed by both partied then it has been properly executed even though it is an application.

 

it's nice to know what i'm up against!

[maggieboo]

Hi prematurejack

 

you need to start your own thread otherwise it could all get a bit confusing, then you will find that you will get so much help and advice.

 

you need to send lowells a CCA request together with a £1 cheque or postal order to cover the cost of this, make sure they don't offset it against the debt. they will then have to provide you with a signed credit agreement, it should be clear and legible, be signed by both relevant parties and have details of APR and repayments, (anyone feel free to correct me here). they have to provide this within 12 working days of receipt of the cca request, so make sure you send it by recorded delivery and keep copies of everything. if they don't send it within 12 days then you can withhold payment, and if nothing is received after a further 30 days they have committed a criminal offence. Never phone them, always state in your letters that you will not talk to them on the phone.

 

but as i said above, the best thing you can do is start your own thread.

 

i hope this helps, and anyone please feel free to correct me on anything!

 

Good luck with it all.

 

maggieboo

[maggieboo]

An update.

 

I sent off my complaint to my local TS with copies of all correspondence between myself and Lowells and I received a reply from the TS today.

 

They have asked me to phone them to discuss my issue with Lowells as it is such a complex case, and also to ask my permission to pass my details onto the TS where lowells are based if necessary.

 

I've always replied politely to lowells letters and so i did have quite a pile of stuff to send to TS. hopefully it will all be in my favour because reading back through everything there are my polite replies and requests to lowells, and their letters constantly threatening legal action and ignoring my polite requests.

 

I can't phone them until Tuesday because i've got to stay at work late monday, so I phoned the TS officer that sent me the letter and left a message on their answerphone thanking them for their quick response and to inform them that i will be phoning tuesday.

 

so, i will let you know tuesday how my phone call went.

 

[maggieboo]

Just come off the phone from TS

 

The lady that I spoke to basically said that if I owed the money then it had to be paid. I pointed out that the money was owed to Barclaycard but that my complaint was about Lowells threatening and bullying behaviour, the constant court threats and ignoring my letters and also that they did not comply with the CCA. I pointed out that if a stranger knocked on my door every week demanding money from me, I would not hand it over, so why were Lowells allowed to write and demand money without proving that the money is owed to them?

 

I said that I found their letters extremely intimidating and frightening, so she suggested that I phone them and explain all this to them. My response was no way am I phoning, because if they can bully with a letter, then I don't want to find out how they would speak to me.

 

She felt that they had complied with the CCA request with the poor copy of the application form. I pointed out that they had to provide me with an exact executed agreement, not an application form, and it had to be within the timescale. She thought that because it was a credit card and therefore continuous credit there wouldn't be an agreement as such.

 

She has asked me to forward her authorisation to enable her to contact Lowells and Barclaycard direct so that she can confirm with them that I should be paying money to Lowells.

 

She also said that she could not do anything about their behaviour and treatment of my case but she could send me debt management info which might be helpful and have some useful addresses.

 

I don't want her to contact Barclaycard or Lowells, she seems to missing the point of my complaint, should I write back to her clarifying that I am complaining about Lowells treatment and failure to fulfill the CCA request and that that is all I wish her to investigate. Or should I just bundle everything up and send it off to TS where Lowells are?

 

(I know it is highly unlikely that Lowells will take me to court, but believe me, the way my luck runs sometimes, they are bound to do that:rolleyes: ).

 

Any suggestions anyone?

[maggieboo]

any suggestions anyone?

[maggieboo]

i fear that if you just send the info to leeds TS they will do what they did to me and say "we aint dealing with it, send it to your own TS"

 

That's what I was thinking, but then there's no harm in trying, and if leeds TS get enough complaints about lowells, maybe they will have to do something?

 

The TS in my area hadn't heard of Lowells, so that's why I thought of trying leeds and explaining that I have tried my local one but am trying them also as the company is in their area?

 

I don't know really but it's worth a try.

[maggieboo]

Thanks Cas and Dannyboy, this site is great, there's always some moral support when you need it!

 

I was worried as the TS person I spoke to wanted to phone Lowells to ask if I should be paying them and how much did they want me to pay them!

 

So I did write back to TS last week, purely to reiterate what my actual complaint was about, ie, failure to comply with CCA request and ignoring my attempts to resolve the issue, constantly threatening legal action. I also enclosed quotes from the OFT guidelines for debt collection and showed how Lowells had gone against these guidelines in the way they were demanding money.

 

I've decided that now all I can do is sit and wait to see what comes through the letterbox. I know that it is highly unlikely that lowells will take me to court, and even if they do I've got such a stack of correspondence between us that consists of their bullying letters and my polite replies, so I know that it is all in my favour, especially as they have not proved that they actually own the debt.

 

Maggieboo can i ask you if they are still contacting you over this alleged debt, phone/letter or both?

 

Bigmac versus, in answer to your question, the last letter that I had from Lowells was dated 8th June in which they said that they were going to get statements from Barclaycard and then I would have to pay them. There has been nothing since, and I am lucky as they have never phoned me and I certainly won't be phoning them. It's a bit worrying though as the TS advised me to phone Lowells to sort things out!

 

I CCA'd Lowells on 14th April, they sent back the copy application form on 23rd April and then I had letters from them on 21st, 30th and 31st May requesting payment and the last one on 8th June as mentioned above.

 

So, as I said earlier, I will just sit and wait now.

 

[maggieboo]

Maggieboo, which Trading Standards did you complain to? Yours,

Consumer advice and protection - A-Z of services

 

Or Leeds?

Leeds City Council - Trading standards - West Yorkshire Trading Standards

 

It might be worth having a go with whichever is 'the other one', if you see what I mean! Unfortunately all TS's are different and run from their own rule book...

 

Just worth a think about too... Was the debt disputed in anyway before it was sold to Lowell Financial? If it was it shouldn't have been sold on, and also if still in dispute LF shouldn't be chasing you!

 

Good to see great advise from BmV too

 

Good luck & best wishes, Dave.

 

Hi Dave

 

I complained to my local TS, they phoned me again yesterday to say that under CCA regulations Lowells only have to send me documents if they have got them, it might prove difficult for them to get hold of them considering the age of the debt. TS also said that they could not do anything as it was out of their remit and that they don't actually deal with this area of CCAs, I really just had to pay up and that the letters from Lowells are only computer generated and nothing to worry about, but if I phoned Lowells and actually spoke to someone then it might be a way to resolve my issue without any more problems!:o If only it were that simple and if only DCAs were as pleasant as my TS advisor thinks they are!

 

She also went on to say that even if it did go to court it wouldn't really be too much bother, because I would only have to prove what I could afford to pay and then pay that amount. Obviously the stress and worry of going to court and taking time off work etc is not a big factor!

 

I really don't think I've anything to lose by sending everything off to Leeds TS, the worse they can do is send it back.

 

Thanks everyone for advice and kind words, much appreciated.

 

Oh and by the way Dave, the debt wasn't disputed, I was paying Mercers a token £1.00 a month for several years when Lowells appeared on the scene.

[maggieboo]

Hi Bigmac

 

No news. The last letter I had from Lowells was on 8th June where they said they were going to get copies of all my statements to send to me.

 

I sent everything off to my local TS but they didn't want to know, they said that they do not deal with this sort of thing.

 

I did consider making a complaint to Leeds TS but because I haven't heard anything from Lowells for a while now, I've left it. If I do start getting nonsense from them again then I might take the Leeds TS route, but for now I shall leave things as they are.

 

Thanks for asking though!

[maggieboo]

Hi ro55e30

 

you probably realised, but the sentence in pink is not the TS lady's words, just me peed off at the time.

 

Quote:

 

She also went on to say that even if it did go to court it wouldn't really be too much bother, because I would only have to prove what I could afford to pay and then pay that amount. Obviously the stress and worry of going to court and taking time off work etc is not a big factor!

 

Also what right has she got giving you advise like this. Get her name and report her

 

But you're right, it's not helpful advice she's given, and I'm lucky that I've found this site because a few months ago I didn't know anything that I do now. There's a lot of people out there that would rely on the advice that they are given by TS and it's worrying that they don't all seem to agree on what to do. (Although of course many of them are V helpful).

[maggieboo]

Hi

Local trading standards departments and the Office of Fair Trading enforce the Act. That is there job.

You want to write back to T/S and demand they do what the tax payers employe them to do.

Its got nothing to do with who owes who, they have not supplied you with the correct CCA so T/S have to get involved.

 

I would also consider making a complaint to the The Local Government Ombudsman as they are not doing there job.

 

 

 

Also what right has she got giving you advise like this. Get her name and report her

 

I've been looking at my local TS/county council website and there is a document on there stating the legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service. No 5 on their list is the Consumer Credit Act 1974 with a subsection of "controls debt collecting and credit reference agencies". Now my TS officer stated the Consumer Credit Act was out of her area of remit, so I have drafted the following letter to this lady to query why she was unable to help me when their website says that this is what they do.

 

 

 

 

Further to our recent letters and telephone conversations, I wish to refer back to some of the advice that you gave me.

 

I am confused as you informed me on the telephone that the Consumer Credit Act is an area that is not within your remit and therefore you could not help me with this, but whilst researching this Act I discovered on the East Sussex County Council Trading Standards website that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service.

 

I do not understand why you were unable to help me.

 

I therefore assume that as Trading Standards has so many consumer issues and complaints to deal with, that maybe a different department of the Trading Standards would deal with it?

 

Therefore I would be most grateful if you could pass my original complaint and file onto a Trading Standards Officer that does deal with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

does this sound alright?

[maggieboo]

I've been looking at my local TS/county council website and there is a document on there stating the legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service. No 5 on their list is the Consumer Credit Act 1974 with a subsection of "controls debt collecting and credit reference agencies". Now my TS officer stated the Consumer Credit Act was out of her area of remit, so I have drafted the following letter to this lady to query why she was unable to help me when their website says that this is what they do.

 

 

 

 

Further to our recent letters and telephone conversations, I wish to refer back to some of the advice that you gave me.

 

I am confused as you informed me on the telephone that the Consumer Credit Act is an area that is not within your remit and therefore you could not help me with this, but whilst researching this Act I discovered on the East Sussex County Council Trading Standards website that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service.

 

I do not understand why you were unable to help me.

 

I therefore assume that as Trading Standards has so many consumer issues and complaints to deal with, that maybe a different department of the Trading Standards would deal with it?

 

Therefore I would be most grateful if you could pass my original complaint and file onto a Trading Standards Officer that does deal with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

does this sound alright?

 

 

Well, I faxed this letter and enclosure to my TS on Monday and they phoned me yesterday to say that there appeared to have a been a misunderstanding between us.

 

Apparantly I misunderstood her. When she told me originally that CCA was out of her area of remit, she didn't say this at all! Apparantly she had told me that the Money Advice Service was out of her area of remit and therefore I had completely misunderstood her and everything that we had talked about. She also knew that the misunderstanding was on my part because she had written down notes during our conversation. Silly me.

 

I pointed out that I had also taken notes, and had written to her with follow up letters clarifying our conversations, so why did she not inform me of the misunderstandings when she had got my letters?

 

She went on to say that I had refused her offers of help and she had this in writing from me. I pointed out that the only help she had offered me was not wanted because she only wanted to phone Lowells to check that I should be paying them and how much did they want me to pay! Of course I'm going to decline from that kind of help!

 

But anyhow, she did go on to say that I could use section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 in my defence if lowells did take me to court, I could say that they have not supplied me with a fully executed agreement therefore they cannot make me pay and then it would be up to a judge to decide. She also said that the Consumer Credit Act covered civil and criminal law and that my problem was civil and it was a complicated act.

 

i asked very politely why she hadn't told me this in the first place, it was clear from my letters what my complaint was about and she just said again how complicated it all was and that I had misunderstood her.

 

she had basically tried to fob me off with my original complaint and then had an awful lot of back tracking to try and cover up her bad advice when i challenged her with my letter.

 

So i'm not any further with things, still sitting and waiting in case i hear from lowells again, but I am glad i challenged her about her lack of help, thanks RO for your advice & suggestion here!

[maggieboo]

hi danny

 

i agree, some TS have been helpful and others not.

 

I've re-read your post 77, and you're quite right, i won't be any worse off whatever the outcome.

 

I haven't heard from lowells since 8th June, nearly 2 months ago now, so with any luck they will just clear off and leave me alone quite soon. I first heard from them on 15th November 2006, so they have been trying their luck with me for some time now. it must be about time they gave up, they seem to leave other people alone much sooner so I don't know why they've clung onto me for such a long time!

[maggieboo]

hi rgrgrgrg

 

welcome to the lowells/barclaycard/nigel beaven club!

 

more importantly welcome to CAG, you have found an excellent website:D and you will get so much help.

 

the best thing to do would be to start your own thread if you need any particular help.

 

good luck with lowells!

[maggieboo]

Hi Maggie are you that sick of lowells your picking on TS now:D

 

i'm sick of it all now! and i've recently CCA'd cabot and am about to start on AIC and Halifax.

 

now that I am feeling brave because of all the stuff I have learnt here i promise i will only pick on DCA's from now on!:grin:

[maggieboo]

And so the saga continues...

 

This is all getting rather boring now. I got the following letter from Lowells yesterday with 3 similar statements:-

 

 

 

I've drafted a letter to send to them, but really it's so obvious that they haven't got the CCA or anything to prove that they should have my money and now we are back at square one.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Thank you for your letter dated 17th August 2007 in which you enclose papers that are headed “copy statement”. I note that the “copy statements” quite clearly state that no payments are due.

 

These documents are unacceptable as there is no evidence whatsoever that they are from Barclaycard and in any event copy statements alone are not proof that a debt exists or that an individual is liable for an alleged debt. I also query why the statements are dated January, February and March 2007 when you purchased the alleged debt in November 2006? Barclaycard cannot issue statements for an account they no longer own.

 

I sent a CCA request to your company on 14th April 2007 and I received a reply dated 20th April 2007 in which your company enclosed a very poor quality copy of an application form. I received this copy application form on 26th April 2007.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77/78 the document you are obliged to provide me with is a true copy of the executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms.

 

Due to your failure to comply with the CCA request, this account is currently in dispute.

 

You will be aware that whilst this account is in dispute you are unable to pass this matter onto any third parties or instruct solicitors to issue legal proceedings.

 

By continuing to demand payment from me without complying with the CCA request within the prescribed legal time limits you have committed a summary offence, which can carry a jail sentence and a maximum fine of £5,000. In addition you are not allowed to enforce the debt while the failure to supply the correct document continues.

 

I have lodged a formal complaint with my local Trading Standards office as you continue to demand payment from me despite not fulfilling the CCA request.

 

I request that you provide me with a copy of your complaints procedure.

 

As you have been unable to provide any of the correct documentation during the nine month period that you have been harassing me, may I suggest that it is now time for you to bring this matter to a close by admitting that you are not in a position to pursue this alleged debt due to the fact that you do not have any of the correct and legal paperwork. You should now close this file and reduce the balance to zero.

 

I note from your letter that you may have to pass this matter onto your legal department. I would like to point out that you have already done this several months ago. Threatening legal action is not a professional way to extract money from individuals.

 

As you are aware from previous correspondence I will only contact you by letter, not telephone.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Is there any point in me replying to their letter or should I just ignore them? I've done the TS route who don't want to know and now I feel completely stuck. :?

 

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do now, or any ways I can improve my letter to them?

 

They just won't leave me alone.

 

Thank you anyone that can help.

[maggieboo]

they certainly are persistent, but now I'm right back to where I was a few months ago. they passed me onto their legal department back in March and here we are 5 months later with the same threats, despite me sending a CCA request and going to TS.

 

it is so frustrating to have gone full circle with them but i suppose it is all part of their attempt to wear you down.

 

I just don't know whether it is to my advantage to ignore them?

[maggieboo]

i didn't send the letter to lowells that i put in my post 100, but i have written to them reminding them that they have not complied with my CCA request as they have not sent me a fully executed credit agreement and that now the account is in dispute.

 

i put at the top of the letter I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY as i hadn't put it on my CCA request.:o

 

i had a look at my credit record with experian and it's good, I haven't got any defaults, so maybe that's why they're hanging onto me? if my credit record is ok perhaps they think i must have some money somewhere to pay them!!

 

LOL, if there was any spare cash i wouldn't be in this mess!

[maggieboo]

Hi wag,

 

Welcome to CAG. finding this site is probably one of the best things you have done!

 

the best thing you can do now is start your own thread then you will get all sorts of help and advice. the problem with joining onto someone elses is that things can get a bit confusing.

 

Even though this thread has gone on a bit, it's all still quite new to me, and there are an awful lot of people of CAG that can give you some excellent advice.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

Maggieboo:)

[maggieboo]

Guess what?

 

I'm still receiving more letters from lowells, 30th august, 4th & 10th september.

 

the same old jargon about how they cannot understand why I haven't paid them considering how generous they have been in allowing me plenty of time to pay, and how they have given me numerous options of payment and numerous offers also. oh yes, they might have to refer me to hamptons legal (again!) when do they give up?:-?

 

the only option i haven't tried with them is to ignore them, and to those of you who have read my thread i'm sure you'll agree that is about all i can do now. i will keep you updated and hopefully I will be able to have some of DMD's balloons at some point!

[maggieboo]

Received another letter from lowells asking for full payment or else so on the 14th September, I sent the following letter to them:

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

I refer to my letter dated 14th April 2007 which was sent via Recorded Delivery to your offices in which I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

You have failed to legally fulfil this request. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this alleged account.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enters into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commits an offence. These time limits expired on 2nd May 2007 and 1st June 2007.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore on 1st June 2007 this alleged account became unenforceable at law as you have failed to comply with the request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, any other relevant documents mentioned in it and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Your continued letters, and their frequency, demanding payment whilst this alleged account is in dispute and unenforceable are unacceptable.

 

I believe that your company is in breach of the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines for Debt Collection:

 

“Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals – your letters are sent too frequently, sometimes only a few days apart not allowing adequate time to respond or seek further help if necessary

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing – each letter states I can pay by credit card thus enticing further debt

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so – you have stated that I must pay in full

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued – the alleged account is in dispute as you have failed to comply with the CCA request yet you continue to demand payment

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt. – you have continued collection activity whilst this alleged account is in dispute.

 

Debt collection visits

2.11 Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner.

2.12 Examples of unfair practices are:

f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the

debt is deadlocked or disputed. – I have made no agreement to have agents visit my home and will not as the alleged account is in dispute.

 

The law set in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 must be abided by everyone; people and companies alike and taking the above into consideration, no court would look favourably upon your failure to provide true, accurate information which I assume that you already had in your possession, prior to issuing letters demanding payment. These letters must cease whilst in dispute, otherwise these can and will be deemed harassment by letter, which is against the law.

 

Please provide me with a copy of your complaints procedure as your continued demands for payment and threat of further action are completely unacceptable as this alleged account is in dispute.

 

 

I thought it might stop them in their tracks, but no. This is what they replied with:

 

As a company we are well aware of our obligations in respect of the Consumer Credit Act following such a request as yours, and your comments are duly noted. However, your guidance is certainly not required and neither do we require certain sections or sub-sections of said act documenting or quoting.

 

We would advise you that the documentation that you have been provided with is sufficient to ensure that we have remained compliant with the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This also applies to any other act or guidelines that you believe have been breached. Under the circumstances, your comments are refuted in their entirety, including your suggestion of harrassment. It is clear that you do not have a valid dispute concerning this account and your own offer of payment earlier this year is tantamount to this effect. As such, our action in pursuit of this outstanding balance will continue unabated.

 

As requested, please find enclosed a copy of our internal complaints procedure. Please note, should your complaint surround the contents of your letter dated 14th September 2007, you will be provided with a copy of this letter as a final response.

 

I trust that the above clarifies our position.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

In other words you should now be very scared of us and if you do complain we will ignore it.

 

And they didn't include their complaints procedure, they've probably run out of them!;-)

 

Any suggestions for my next move gratefully received.

 

[maggieboo]

Time to get TS involved and go from there.

 

Thanks Curlyben, but I did try TS back in June when Lowells didn't comply with CCA request and still asked for payment. Unfortunately TS felt that Lowells had complied and that I had to pay up because too many people try and use CCA loopholes to avoid their debts. I could try TS in Leeds though.

[maggieboo]

You have a PM

Enjoy

 

Thanks Curlyben, a tickle is on it's way!

[maggieboo]

Hi

 

Can I just ask a bit of a dumb question about what being in dispute actually means?

 

I'm still getting letters from Lowells saying the usual rubbish. I wrote to them a while ago saying that seeing as they had not supplied a valid CCA the alleged debt was now in dispute and I would not be having any contact with them. They have written saying that because I offered to pay £1 a month (before I found this site) that was their proof that I did not have any valid dispute and they would continue to pursue me unabated.

 

I say the "account" is in dispute because they have failed with the CCA request, they say it isn't because I offered a token payment months ago.

 

I am right aren't I?

 

Thanks

[maggieboo]

Many thanks for your speedy reply and for clarifying that CB.

 

I have reported them to TS, I wrote a very polite letter explaining all and sent copies of all correspondence but TS said that Lowells only had to send an agreement if they had one and then offered to negotiate a payment on my behalf!

 

I have written a formal complaint to lowells (for what it's worth) so that I can then complain to OFT and FSO, but I suppose really it's just a case of battling on and not letting them get to me, I expect they rely on wearing you down in the hope of getting what they want.