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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Hubby's potential Insolvency / bankruptcy


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Gingerheid, thank you so much for the advice. Ironically when hubby returns to work (he has just had an op) this car would be the tool of his trade also.

 

Ok... this is actually yet another fantastic key to the whole thing; your strongest one.

 

You can additionally tell them (Or better still your husband if he is well enough) that even in the event they do not accept the car is yours, he will be better very soon (as I'm sure and hope he will be), that he will be looking for work and has a reasonable chance of finding it (which I'm sure he has), but that he will not have a reasonable chance of finding work unless he has use of a motor car (which from what you say he wouldn't, but you need to explain why).

 

Perhaps a few details to confirm this for them, and that should then be pretty much the end of the story.

 

It's easier if it turns out the car is actually yours though; that obviously removes the value limit.

 

All the best, and all the best for hubby's recovery from the op!

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Number of times I've asked 1st Credit for information that I stil haven't recieved... 55 as at 02/05/07 :!:

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Hey Gizmo, nice to see you back - hope you had a restful break and that you are ok. The only down side about the banks was that hubby was unable to complete his claim for his personal bank charges, and I spent hours (and £!!) getting it through to court, however once the BR was granted, the OR took this case over and wasnt interested in chasing the money!!! Tau - bear this in mind if you are in the middle of claiming bank charges. And of course you can pop in for tea, you have to bring the biccies though! With regard to your cars, I agree that they would both fall under the £2k mark under each individual case, however the bike could be a further asset maybe? (vision of the official receiver zooming off on a bike into the sunset)

Gingerhead, thank you for your support, and logical approach. Hubby did tell the Official Receiver that he would need this car following his recovery from his operation, however they started to argue and say that you would not need such a new car (its 3 years old this year) and that a lower value car would be ok, ...in their opinion. We have not received anything in writing yet so I am unable to clarify where the OR sees this at the moment, but I am in battling mood! Have gone from upset to anger to resolution to win!!!!

Blimey, hope one of my DCAs phone tonight, boy am I in the mood for them!!! :D

Will keep you posted and thank you all for keeping me sane!

Red

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If the situation remains that it's his car this is a problem you can't get over; the value limit is pretty set in stone and it seems clear they'd make something from selling it and giving you £2k.

 

If you can even make the half the car yours in a legal manner, then of course this is edging well down the road of more trouble than it's worth for them.

Number of times I've asked 1st Credit for information that I stil haven't recieved... 55 as at 02/05/07 :!:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again every one especially Gingerheid, sorry have not been ignoring you, just been dealing with this situation. I sent a letter myself to the OR, stating that I had been paying the HP on the car, and that therefore I have an interest in it, all being that the car is in my husband's name.

The OR did write through and said that his interest was for the creditors, and that the £2k limit was non-movebale, however if I could provide proof of payments then he would look into it further.

So its not all doom and gloom (yet!).

I am collating the paperwork to him ready to post this week.

Red

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Also, Lloyds have just written through and demanding that I pay them back ALL of the joint loan, take it that I (not being BR) am liable for all of this?

And the OD on the joint account?

Where do I stand about bank charges?

Any help appreciated,

thanks

Red

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Hi red

This was one of the reasons that both myself and the wife decided to file for BR, as we have a couple of joint loans together. They must come to about 10k between them, so it wasnt practical for just myself to do it as we would still have had the loan companies coming after swmbo for the outstanding amounts.

 

It might be worth firing off a request for the CCA that Lloyds should have for the loan. Or hopefully not have.

Sorry to hear of this extra problem, but Im sure we can get over it.

Not too sure how you would stand with reclaiming the bank charges or how the OR would see it. He may want half of any proceeds for your hubbies half to pay off the creditors. As I say Im not to sure on this.

 

Anyway have a big HUG to be going on with.

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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Thank you Tau, you still have time for me, even though you have a big (nice?) week ahead of you!!!

Think that I already have sent a CCA request at the beginning of the year to which Lloyds replied. But not complied with the SAR request, so could be an angle to argue in the meantime!

I knew that this was not going to be plain sailing.....

Still fighting though!

Red

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Tuesdays the day. Getting a bit apprehensive now. Filling in the forms today to take with us on Tuesday. Loads of questions about what and how much you can claim for, all sorts of stuff going through my head.

What if the Judge says no, Cost a fortune for all those CCA requests ;) and SARs. Might have One of Diskmandaves cheeky vimto's tonight:)

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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Hi Red

Yep it all went well, the Judge was very picky over my forms:confused: she asked why I was sill paying insurance on my bike when I had sold it. So I said if you look at motor vehicles I own, you will see one listed there:rolleyes: Dont think that went down to well!!! She also picked up on a pension and asked me how much it was worth and I said I hadnt a clue, that got a dagger like look as well. Dont think she liked me much :Cry:

She was OK with the wife though.

Had a brief chat with the OR on the phone, who was very nice. She called us at home a bit later and said that we could keep both cars:D but my bike has to go:-| but someone can by the beneficial interest in it for me, so I can get to keep it.

We have to go for an interview on the 16th of this month, just to run through the SOA and expenses plus my business affairs.

All in all not a bad day, all debts gone all 40k's worth so I am a fairly happy bunny.

We can also keep our basic bank account with the Co-op and also one with the Abbey as niether were creditors.

The court forms were a nightmare to fill in though, talk about the ins and outs of a ducks bum, how many times do you have to fill in account numbers and such, take half of them away and it would save a bleedin rain forest. 20 pages of questions on both sides as well:-o

 

Oh well cant be a company director for a while now, do I care, err nope. My credit file was sh1te before hand so this wont make much difference to it now. Do I want another credit card, not fookin likely.

 

Will be able to sleep better tonight for the fist time in a long while, now wheres me Vimto and Vodka.

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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Quick question, I have written to OH official receiver, and awaiting an answer.

In the meantime, will I be held liable for the full outstanding amounts on joint loans, and overdrafts on joint bank accounts, or will hubby's "half", be deducted!

Thank you

Red

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bump

will I be held liable for the full outstanding amounts on joint loans, and overdrafts on joint bank accounts, or will hubby's "half", be deducted!

 

Almost all loans are joints and severable, which means both parties are liable for the full amount of the loan (double recovery is not permitted, so what one party pays, the creditor can't claim from the other).

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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If the loan was a joint loan, or you were a guarantor, you would be liable for it in full.

 

Any loan in hubbies name only, you would not be liable for.

 

Obviously, the normal dispute route is open to you.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Quick update, I have questioned the OR about the house, and also have sent a list of payments including the final payment about the car in dispute which I made! So therefore contesting the legal ownership. I am reticent at the moment to go forward and pay out money for an MOT and also tax if the car is going to be sold in order to pay OH's creditors!

Will continue to post.

Red

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Hi Red

I think that the OR will take the car if it does not have any MOT on it anyway, at least thats the way it was explained to me last week. The way they see it is that its money just sitting there.

 

They came and took my bike today :Cry:

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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How much is the car worth?

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Hello,It is frightening when you don't know much about bankruptcy. I was in that situation. However some knowledge of the system eased my fears.You could have been talking about me when I read your husband's story.I have been defrauded by my staff and a drug gang and incurred nearly £100k worth of debts. The banks immediately called in my debts which stopped from trading and incurred a further £25k. After professional advice from cccs and other debt agencies I filed for bankruptcy.Yes life is a little restrained but I am optimistic. All my debts have been cancelled including tax & n.i. contributions.With reference to the house my worst fear (losing the house) is also reduced because the O.R. are not appointing a trustee for the sale of our property. Though we have about £50k of equity.By the time all cost are disbursed from the sale of the house and the profit left is split between my wife and myself there is little or no equity to pay any of my debtors.My wife just like you will have to repurchase my share of the house from the O.R. We can negotiate the price with the O.R. based on the level of debt we have on the mortgage and any secured lending (2nd charge) on the property.In my situation, it could cost us anything up to £20k If we have a negative equity (we owe more the than value of the house) situation than my wife like yourself can repurchase the right to the house for a token £1.00 plus £211 for administration cost.Do not improve your property during this stage as it could increase its value.It's up to the O.R. to get a valuation. Do not spend money on that task. Whatever the cost we have to make sure that the deeds of the house are transfered into my wife/children names.This is to prevent the banks from hassling me again in five or ten years time since my property will have increased in value.Any money that is in a business partnership has not been touched. Half of any money in a joint account with my wife is allocated to repay my debts. Get your husband to open a "cashminder account" with the co-op bank. Surf the internet for option & advice. Get a prepaid credit card wich allows you to pay for goods in the high streets,...The government has set the bankruptcy laws to protect individual like your husband and myself and allow us to have a fresh start. DO NOT BE ASHAMED OF IT. UNFORSEEN CIRCUMSTANCES BEFALL ANYONE.BE OF GOOD COURAGE IT LAST ONLY FOR TWELVE MONTH AND YOU CAN START TO REBUILD YOUR LIFE WTH PRIDE. ALL THE DEBTS ARE GONE.Your fellow in bankruptcyp>

Hi all, I wanted to post a thread as a time line / story about my hubbys potential insolvency.

We are married and own our own home. We do not have much equity in the house.

 

The very basic out line is : Hubby is due in court at the end of May 07, as a big bank want to place a charge on our property against a guarantee which he made to them against loans/overdraft on a business account. He has lots of other credit card debts outstanding. (I have a separate thread regarding the charge on the property issue).

 

We are now contemplating him chosing insolvency.

 

We are not taking this decision lightly, this is a big scary trip into the unknown.

 

Tomorrow we go to see an Insolvency Practioner.

 

Any advice and especially support welcome!

 

Will keep you posted

Red

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Any joint debts become yours. My wife has suffered the same. However we have spoken to the bank and told them that my wife is unable to meet the debt. The next step was to make them an offer based on what is left from our monthly expenditure, for my wife £20/mth.however they are trying to secure the debt on the house which we are declining. Speak to the Consumer Credit Counsel Service, they are very good and have fairly hefty clout.

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Hi Kisimba, thank you for your messages, and it is great to hear from people in a similar situation. I really feel for you about what happened to your business, its one thing if you recklessly splash your money about and then can't repay your debts, but something else competely when the situaiton was not one where you could really accept the blame.

You mentioned something about the banks hassling you in 5/10 years time. What was it that you were referring to? I was uncertain, because your debts became the OR once BR was filed, or at least that was the impression I was given. Thank you regarding the advice for the valuation, I had phoned an estate agent (who didnt turn up any way!), but will sort the car out first!

Update about the car

Tomterm8, the car is valued according to Parkers at around £4000, however, we were rushed when filling out the form at the IP, and put £6k. We have since advised the OR of our mistake, but think that he still wants the £2k "equity". The OR replied to my letter about me making payments (that was only about 1/10 of my argument though!) on the HP plus the final payment, and he said that he would contact the finance co direct (although not sure what info they can give as they are not a creditor). So at the moment I still am using the car for work.

Hubby is going to phone the OR regarding the MOT, Cambelt, service and road tax, as we dont want to pay out £700 and then he sells it 2 weeks later. Bit tricky, as this is all due at the end of July! Timing!

Tau, sorry to hear about your bike, I guess that your case was a little more straight forward than mine!

Will keep you posted!

Red

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all, update on the latest news:

The OR has gone on hols and returns on 1st August (the day after the car's tax and MOT expire - timing!!). We received an ambiguously worded letter stating that the OR has no interest in personal possessions and tools of the trade. In the form that we filled out with our IP, the car was put under the motor vehicle section with an asterisk to tools of the trade to cross reference.

So I am not 100% sure of where we stand ATM. Will just have to continue as if we are keeping the car and bite the bullet. Seeing as I will be kept in the dark until the OR returns!

In the meantime, I have received my notice to interested parties of a dwelling-house (my home!!), and also a separate letter regarding the beneficial interest of the property.

I have to obtain the valuations and also the amounts owed to the mortgage company (in this case including ERC).

I probably will speak to the IP first as don't want to rush this one. Sadly in the news, house prices have risen 26% locally within one year! :eek:

That's all folks!

Red

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