Pot plant V Nat West ***WON***

[hedgey06]

Bump For Parkie!! Xxxx

[Parkvale]

pot plant, Firstly, The likelyhood of Nat West defending your claim in a courtroom are virtually Nil. They would have to disclose their true costs. Secondly i waited 11 weeks for my court directions after i had lodged my AQ. Finally don't panic to much about the T&C's .Alot can happen over the next few weeks. The mods are trying to gather as many T&C's from CAG members now. You don't need your T&C's until you submit your court bundle. Which if you even have to do that won't be until your court directions arrive and by then the terms and conditions issue will be alot clearer. I hope that has made things a little clearer for you. Good luck.

[pot plant]

Thanks a lot Parky for the advice, I had visions of local judge being in agreement with the draft order for directions and the go ahead by return of post. I hope you are right about the time scale, 11 weeks would suit me just fine. I can finally get out in the fresh air and mow my lawn and water to my plants: with all this stress I think I'll just smoke em!

[steven4064]

I think also, that if the worst came to the worst, you could probably use the latest T&Cs which you could get from your branch. The judge in the Birmingham case said he went on the internet looking for T&Cs and all he would have found would have been the latest ones. I think what you mustn't do is not put any T&Cs in at all.

 

The new NatWest T&Cs (Nov 2006) have obviously been carefully written to try and get round their problems but all they have really succeeded in doing is laying a trap for themselves regarding "disguised penalties" (IMHO).

 

I have posted some T&Cs for 2001 for a business account on the T&Cs thread. I think the bits about penalties are probably the same in the business and personal banking T&Cs. Hopefully we will be able to find out soon.

 

Steven

 

[Parkvale]

Quite right Steve. They are running in circles, But most importantly they are still settling claims. Pot plant you can't smoke your garden Be careful where next doors cat has been. That won't taste very nice.

[pot plant]

I have just been reading a few threads as I have spent a few days in the garden, yes in the rain, I needed time away from the computer. Anyway after reading about this mediation leaflet being sent out by the courts, I remembered somewhere (probably in the bottom of my bin) I also had one. I discarded it as I thought it was a standard leaflet sent out for neighbour disputes. Luckily I had not emptied the bin and decided to phone the contact number and make some enquiries. The information is quite interesting - spoke to Zena one of the mediators, very nice and friendly. She advised that I should send a letter to Nasty West and Cobbetts asking if they would consent to mediation. The fact that I had tried to reslove this matter looks very favourable when the judge reads through the case material, infact she logged my call and gave me a reference number. Scoring points already. If Nasty and Cobblers refuse or ignore the request it just adds more weight to the case. She even advised to give them a deadline of 14 days to reply. With their case load, it might be difficult for them to do so especially if all the CAG members sent the same request it would put them in a difficult position. Mediation contact number 0845 60 30 809, if anyone wants to do the same. I would like a comment on this process before I proceed, please. There is a chance they agree to mediation and then we would have to compromise, but that may suit some CAG members. There is also a fee but it depends on the total amount claimed. Their website for more information is www.nationalmediationhelpline.com A much calmer pot plant.

[pot plant]

Hi anyone, I have not had any feedback about my request for thoughts and feelings on the Mediation leaflet. Is there anyone there. Potty

[steven4064]

Hi potty

 

I think the two words in your last but one post might indicate the answer for a lot of us on this site: 'compromise' and 'fee'

 

Steven

 

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[pot plant]

Thanks Steven for the reply, I can understand how you feel. The big question is compromise, does anyone have any idea of the amount which is acceptable. I would rather have most of the money as apposed to none. Its all about circumstances, I am acting on behalf of my son who is at the moment too busy with his new business, he hardly understands what this is all about. We are at the moment in the court process and it will be him in court not me. If he is asked any questions, he won't have a clue. I asked the courts if they would allow me to be included with the claimant, to help prepare the case and they said no! I think this is unfair as he could have a solicitor, but what can you do? I was hoping for some communication or offer from the banks before this stage, its getting complicated now. I have gone this far and don't want to give up, i want his money back, but feel a compromise might be better all round. If it had been my money and my account I wouldn't feel so restricted. I do have a funny little story though, I phoned Nasty West to some time ago and assistant said "am I talking to Pete" and I said "yes, of course" in my female tone!

[Michael Browne]

I asked the courts if they would allow me to be included with the claimant, to help prepare the case and they said no!

You cannot be included with the claimant, but you can represent him in court as a Lay Representative as l;ong as yourson is also present at any hearing:

 

From EX307 leaflet:

Can I take someone with me to the hearing?

Yes. If you do not have a solicitor, you can take someone with you to speak for you.

 

This person is called a ‘lay representative’ and can be anyone you choose, such as your husband or wife, a relative, a friend or an advice worker. If possible, the lay representative should not be a witness. Your lay representative cannot go to an appointment without you unless you have permission from the court.

 

The district judge can tell a lay representative who misbehaves to leave the hearing.

 

As for mediation, see here:

 

Mediation - Letter of Refusal

Mediation - a bad idea

 

[fendyweather]

Hi Pot plant, seeing as you are so far down the line with all this, have you thought of trying to ring the Cobbetts to see if they want to settle. i.e. make them an offer ??? Knock a small amount off your claim and try ringing whoever is dealing with you case to see if they are interested in settling prior to court date ?? Always worth a try I think, that is, if you are prepared to knock a bit off the claim, but if you dont want to do that, then fire away, full steam ahead, and off to court. All the best. Fendy xxxxx

[pot plant]

Michael a big thanks for the info about a lay person. It bothers me that the court assistant didn't offer any advice about this when I asked. She was very abrupt, not a good sign from my local court. Who can I complain too about the fact this information was not offered to me when I requested it? I can do without the aggravation of an abrupt frustrated court assistant. She probably just lost a promotion and has pleasure in telling everyone that she cannot offer advice as she is not a solicitor. I was only requesting to be able to discuss the case on behalf of my son or to sign any correspondence on his behalf, if he wrote a letter of consent. I will phone the courts again and ask for her name, I remember her voice, infact I will go in and see her face to face when I request the EX307 leaflet. Also thanks to fendy for your support, I need to think about my next move. Its great to have options, but I am in a mind to continue the court case as a lay person. Pot plant.

[steven4064]

Pot plant

 

You need a leaflet EX343 "I want to complain" and a complaint form EX343 - you can download them from Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home

 

Steven

 

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[Michael Browne]

Who can I complain too about the fact this information was not offered to me when I requested it? I can do without the aggravation of an abrupt frustrated court assistant.

Personally I wouldn't bother, you're just creating more hassle for yourself at a time when I would have thought you least need it. Ok, you were given duff information, but I have to say, that is the exception. Generally court staff are extremely friendly and helpful.

 

You can download the leaflet here:

EX307

 

I am in a mind to continue the court case as a lay person.

Fine, but remember that all letters, court documents etc must be in his name and signed by him

[pot plant]

Yes Michael, I think you are right about complaining, but I am so livid, it was because of her that I was willing to compromise. I did ask if I could sign any forms on my sons behalf, it may be the reason that she said no. She still should have mentioned the EX307, well won't waste any more time on that subject. I would not have this infomation if it hadn't of been for CAG. Thanks to all. pot plant.

[fendyweather]

Chin up pot plant, all part of the process. Onward and upward, and remember, NO MATTER WHAT, NO MATTER HOW FED UP YOU GET, AND NERVOUS AND TICKED OFF, YOU WILL WIN, AND IT WILL BE ALL WORTH THE HASSLE............... STICK WITH IT.................. LOTS AND LOTS OF LOVE AND HUGS, JUST IN CASE YA NEED EM. FENDY XXXXX

[pot plant]

Good morning all, I see that Fendy is worse for wear this morning, all that money is making her ill. So, do we really want this I ask myself? YES WE DO! As the most fortunate CAG members suffer with the price of fame and fortune, the rest of us are busy with the fight. I was just reading the Lawpack Self Help booklet about the small claims process. Be prepared seems to be the word of the day, I feel like a boy scout. Anyway, IF we go to court the claimant puts their case first. As there are so many important facts to address and not wanting to waffle on about insignificant matters, has anyone got a brief statement that will address the important issues. I want to know exactly what I am going to say, it will give me confidence and hopefully help others if we all open with a good statement. Obviously the rest of the case will differ with individual circumstances, but keeping with the facts and not trying to dictate the law to a judge will surely work in our favour. I ask this as I just wrote a quick speech and found myself writing that these bank charges are unlawful. Surely I can't say that in court? But what can I say that is acceptable and polite? I have time to practise it and be word perfect JUST IN CASE. If nothing else it will take away the anxiety at the thought of going to court for me and others who are at this stage. We will be prepared, confident and calm. HELP!

[steven4064]

Pot plant

 

Got this off another thread (please don't ask me where!) and I squirrelled it away

 

The case

Essentially there are three major parts to succeeding:

1) showing that there has in fact been a breach of contract on your part

2) showing that the charges incurred as a result are in excess of the cost to the bank

3) attempting to satisfy the court as to as to the true cost to the bank. That’s it.

 

Steven

 

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[pot plant]

Thanks for the information Steven, its always helpful. Sounds logical, I will have a go at creating an opening speech and post it here to have it checked by our teachers. Well, over the next week or so, it will take me that long to get it right. pot plant.

[pot plant]

Hi All, just getting info correct, preparing for court whether I go or not. I have printed a copy of T&C's from one of the threads but not sure if it applies to the dates my account was live with Nasty West. The account was a Current Plus Account from 2000 to 2001, then changed to Advantage Gold Account until closed in 2005. Should I apply to Nasty or Cobbetts or both to request T&C's that applied to those dates. Also is their any legal jargon I should add to make sure they do send the T&C's within 14 days. As we all know if they can drag it out, they will. Before I forget, should I send copies of all correspondence with Cobbetts to the court. I wrote to them last week requesting early payment with interest and court charges to date to avoid wasting court time but I did not send a copy to courts. No reply but I will repeat the process again adding request for T&C's but I will wait until I hear from someone about the legal issues. Thanks Pot plant.

[pot plant]

Forgot to mention, I just recorded the interview on BBC Radio 4 Moneybox with senior Judge Steven Girliss( not sure about spelling of his name) on an old dictaphone I have. I'm sure there are updated devices which could be taken into court as evidence that these case are becoming a postcode lottery and the law is not clear about these charges. He was speaking for district judges in London and clearly stated how confusing this mass litigation has become for them and how they are all reaching different decisions. Is there anyone out their that can add a link to this because it is VERY INTERESTING, especially to those who are approaching a court date. Potty.

[steven4064]

Also is their any legal jargon I should add to make sure they do send the T&C's within 14 days.

 

You can say you are applying for them under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[pot plant]

Thanks Steven always their with the advice that I need to proceed. I don't know what I would do without you. What do you think about taking a tape into court of the interview or more to the point threatening to take the tape into court as evidence that a senior district judge has admitted these cases are a postcode lottery at the moment. The banks have not got a clear case to win, so should pay up until these charges are clearly define by a higher court? Or am I missing something! Potty

[steven4064]

Forgot to mention, I just recorded the interview on BBC Radio 4 Moneybox with senior Judge Steven Girliss( not sure about spelling of his name) on an old dictaphone I have. I'm sure there are updated devices which could be taken into court as evidence that these case are becoming a postcode lottery and the law is not clear about these charges. He was speaking for district judges in London and clearly stated how confusing this mass litigation has become for them and how they are all reaching different decisions. Is there anyone out their that can add a link to this because it is VERY INTERESTING, especially to those who are approaching a court date. Potty.

 

Link: BBC Radio Player - Radio 4 - it's the second or third item

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[pot plant]

Good morning all, just a quick question about correspondence with Cobblers. Should I be sending copies of all letters to them to the courts aswell or should I just keep copies for a later date.

Missed the interview this morning on GMTV with Tom Brannnan, really peed off about that, has anyone got a summary of the latest? Thanks Potty