Sale of goods act, etc

[Guest yourbestfriend]

Ok i have gone to the DTI and citizens advice bureau and here is what THEY say about the sale of goods act.

 

In first 6 months it is the retailers/manufacturers agents who has to prove that a fault with a product they sold was not caused by them/manufacturing process.. if infact is un-deniable that its a manufactural fault then they should offer a repair or replacement.

 

After the 6 months and upto 6 years (5 years scotland) the onus is on the consumer to prove it was not themselves or their use that caused the fault. If it is proved to by be unfit for purpose due to manufacturing process then the retailer/manufacturers agent has to arrange a repair/replacement.

 

The retailer/manufacturers agent can get issues sorted within reasonable time. This is not stated in the SOGA but retailers have their own policies. Some can take upto 3 months, some like PCworld have a 28day in the first year and 42 day after first year.

 

Also this does not mean that everything you buy, a tin of beans, PC or beer is suppose to last 6 years. You mayhave purchased a tin of beans but it is only acceptable to claim withing the 'Use By date' on the tin if unsatisfied. With PC's this does NOT mean you have a claim because it doesn't play the top graphics game in 6 years time because at purchase you asked it to play top games. If it cannot handle the software designed and sold at the time of purchase then you MIGHT have a claim.

 

Most retailers have special agreements with manufacturers where the retailers become "manufacturer agents" HP and Lexmark have this agreement with PCWorld where the manufactuer prefers to deal with consumers for repairs and exchanges directly. By being manufactuer agents the onus on repair or replacement falls back to the manufacturer not the retailer.

 

Retailers also have the right to use external repairers to get items fixed or repaired if it is in benefit of the consumer. So where PCWorld have asked consumers to phone the manufacturer it is because in-store it could take upto 28days to sort out the issue, but by using the manufacturer direct the consumer can get the issue sorted faster.

Ofcourse the consumer is within their right to refuse this option and leave it with the retailer to deal with. but that could take longer

[rosiecotton]

Pretty much what we all say about it then

 

One thing to note is that it is generally preferable to go via the retailer and not choose to go to the manufacturer yourself, as you could actually lose your SoGA rights if you pursue the matter under a manufacturer's warranty. If you were to do so on the advice of the retailer, you could obviously argue that you were acting in accordance with their advice - but always get this confirmed in writing in case of any future disputes.

 

Basically rights under the SoGA depreciate over time, and it does not cover faults which are attributable to normal wear and tear or something that the consumer has done to the product. I would also add that consumers cannot generally have betterment, i.e. a brand new replacement after a couple of years use of the old one.

 

Goods purchased under Hire Purchase agreements are not covered by the Sale of Goods Act, there is different legislation for this and you do not have a contract with the retailer, but the finance company.

[reefer]

I bought a Topfield TF5800 STB about 18 months ago from Heathrow Systems (subsiduary of Turbosat). There is no mention on the box, in the manual or on the receipt that at time of purchase it was only 1 year warranty. However, they say that in February this year it was changed to 2 years. It appears that one of the tuners has failed. Would it be possible to insist on a repair as at the moment they are denying responsibility? After all by extending the manufacturers warranty period for an identical product the manufacturers are acknowledging that the product should last for at least 2 years and there is no mention in any of the documents in my possession of it being only 1 year at the date of purchase. This was bought brand new and I still have the box and all documentation.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[fred_2009]

rosie please research acts and laws more.

 

i have repeatedly told you, even copied and pasted from both manufacturers websites and from consumers advice websites where it states manufacturers guarantee's do not affect consumers rights.

 

this includes SOGA.

 

no money is handed over between manufacturer and consumer so no new contract is created. the original contract continues.

 

i would highly advise researching into manufacturers legislations, etc before stating that they affect consumers rights.

 

do not presume things.

 

my advice is that consumers have upto six years to claim a repair, replacement or recission. BUT worse case scenario to honour those rights may involve a court case for the judge to decide the best route for remedy.

 

retailers on the whole have processes which do not require the courts to get involved. ontop of that the consumer can use guarantees if it will take a retailer 4 weeks to repair and a manufacturer guarantee service can do it in two weeks.

 

i would suggest offering consumers on this website all the options, all the facts. and let them decide if they want to call the retailers engineers themselves, go to the retailers store. write to the retailer or use a guarantee.

 

do not presume retailers such as large retail chains like pcworld have the consumers at the top of their agenda. retail chains care about profits. so they would not want to waste too much profit for a speedy repair if their is another option which still gets it repaired but within a acceptable longer time.

 

again give consumers all options. all choices. dont limit them to your own narrow minded, one sided research.

[gyzmo]

Ok i have gone to the DTI and citizens advice bureau and here is what THEY say about the sale of goods act.

 

In first 6 months it is the retailers/manufacturers agents who has to prove that a fault with a product they sold was not caused by them/manufacturing process.. if infact is un-deniable that its a manufactural fault then they should offer a repair or replacement.

 

After the 6 months and upto 6 years (5 years scotland) the onus is on the consumer to prove it was not themselves or their use that caused the fault. If it is proved to by be unfit for purpose due to manufacturing process then the retailer/manufacturers agent has to arrange a repair/replacement.

 

The retailer/manufacturers agent can get issues sorted within reasonable time. This is not stated in the SOGA but retailers have their own policies. Some can take upto 3 months, some like PCworld have a 28day in the first year and 42 day after first year.

 

Also this does not mean that everything you buy, a tin of beans, PC or beer is suppose to last 6 years. You mayhave purchased a tin of beans but it is only acceptable to claim withing the 'Use By date' on the tin if unsatisfied. With PC's this does NOT mean you have a claim because it doesn't play the top graphics game in 6 years time because at purchase you asked it to play top games. If it cannot handle the software designed and sold at the time of purchase then you MIGHT have a claim.

 

Most retailers have special agreements with manufacturers where the retailers become "manufacturer agents" HP and Lexmark have this agreement with PCWorld where the manufactuer prefers to deal with consumers for repairs and exchanges directly. By being manufactuer agents the onus on repair or replacement falls back to the manufacturer not the retailer.

 

Retailers also have the right to use external repairers to get items fixed or repaired if it is in benefit of the consumer. So where PCWorld have asked consumers to phone the manufacturer it is because in-store it could take upto 28days to sort out the issue, but by using the manufacturer direct the consumer can get the issue sorted faster.

Ofcourse the consumer is within their right to refuse this option and leave it with the retailer to deal with. but that could take longer

 

NO NO NO NO NO!!!! The seller in all cases is responsible. Jees, how many times does this have to be gone through? Any remedy must be proprotionate and reasonable compared to the others, and the consumer cannot demand a refund where a repair is more suitable, for example.

 

It is not acceptable for a shop to tell the customer to call the manufacturer or some repairline - it is the sellers job to sort it all out. And as for reasonable time, there is no fixed figure - it is for a court to decide what is reasonable.

 

If I didn't know better, I would say the OP is a certain someone....

[Bookworm]

Well, he is, Gyzmo, but that post goes back to March 2007. :-?

[patdavies]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!! The seller in all cases is responsible. Jees, how many times does this have to be gone through? Any remedy must be proprotionate and reasonable compared to the others, and the consumer cannot demand a refund where a repair is more suitable, for example.

 

It is not acceptable for a shop to tell the customer to call the manufacturer or some repairline - it is the sellers job to sort it all out. And as for reasonable time, there is no fixed figure - it is for a court to decide what is reasonable.

 

If I didn't know better, I would say the OP is a certain someone....

 

Calm down dear. It's only a troll

 

(with apologies to Esure/Michael Winner)

[demon_x_slash]

The thread was bumped by reefer. Reefer, you need to start your own thread and read around this forum for advice on the Sale of Goods Act - and Heathrow Systems is your first point of call to arrange a repair.

[davjoh]

(with apologies to Esure/Michael Winner)

 

I'm sure you meant for, rather than to.

 

(Whoop whoop! 100th post!)

[gyzmo]

Sorry - I got caried away! don't read dates on these things!:o

[fred_2009]

yep you do not read much gyzmo.

 

if you fully want to use your SOGA rights then this will involve a small claims court case. taking many weeks/months to organise.

 

if however you wish to get the product fixed then dont waste your time talking to untrained staff.. talk to the trained departments.

 

yes gyzmo your going to say: the fact that they are untrained is not your problem, because you have your rights.. blah blah blah.

 

well think like that if you want. but untrained staff are not magically going to become trained because you say "i have rights".

"i have rights" does not do the same as "abra-cadabra". it is not a magic word that makes people trained.

 

retailers cant afford to train store staff to legal standard thats why they have legal departments, customer service departments. so the shops can concentrate on selling and the customer service/complaints department can do the rest.

 

 

if you say you have your rights to someone not trained to deal with your rights then they will just grunt and sniff at you.. and maybe if your lucky say "um uh um ok what did you say?".

 

if someone is not trained and does not know what to do then the only way to get action is demand demand demand until they cave under the pressure and just recind the contract to get rid of you. or if you have harry potters magic wand, then you can train them to honour your rights.

 

until then, consumers dont want to employ the services of harry potter. nor do they want to waste weeks informing the retailers HQ that they are filing a small claims case. they can simply call the manufacturer or even the retailers trained department.

 

consumers want results.. not arguments.

 

if a company is going to take weeks/months to either remedy it or be taken to small claims to get a recission, but a manufacturer can get it sorted in under a week..

 

i think you know what consumers would prefer..

 

manufacturers do not affect consumers rights.. if manufacturers do not fix the issue then the consumer can use SOGA as a backup..

 

stop forcing consumers to deal with untrained staff and then contact the trained customers services department/complaints department threatening small claims.. how about advice them to just contact the customer services department/complaints department first.

 

and dont go saying about you dont care blah blah blah.. unlike you most people want their products working so they can use it sooner.. they dont want to have to take time off to go to a small claims court to get the judgment of a recission then wait for the check to clear.. then go purchase a new product.

 

stop forcing consumers down a narrow avenue with only one result.. give other options. research other options. stop being narrow minded.

 

if thwre are fast free services that take hours or days to repair then use them. if you cant then you can always rely on your SOGA rights