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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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What did the court order say? Do you need to submit a new AQ? Check exactly what it says.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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What did the court order say? Do you need to submit a new AQ? Check exactly what it says.

 

Judge has that this claim is stayed untill 23 april to enable parties to attempt settlement, On or before 7may one of the following steps must be taken The claimant must notify the court if the bank have settled.Or the claimant or defendent must write to the court requesting a extension of the stay and explaining the steps being taken towards settlement and identifying any mediator.expert or other person helping with the process the letter should confirm the aggrement of all the parties. Or all parties must file a completed AQ at the court.Where a settlement of some of the issues in dispute has been reached. a list of those issues should be attached to the completed questionaire.The list must be agreed with the other parties and must indicate that has been agreed.

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Right, so you need to submit another AQ by 7 May then as nothing has been settled, but there shouldn't be a fee for it, as you've already paid that.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Right, so you need to submit another AQ by 7 May then as nothing has been settled, but there shouldn't be a fee for it, as you've already paid that.

 

Caro do i ring the courts for this? And will they have one sent (the bank)

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Yes both you and the bank should send one, but if the court didn't send one give them a ring and check with them.

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I rang the courts I had to write a letter to them stateting i havent heard anything from the bank.Its up to the judge to decide where to go from here.Just waiting for a letter now.I did ring again They are very busy the lady said theyre are behind .Alot more people demanding money back form banks Will ring at the end of the week

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Hi maggiemay.

 

When you submit your court bundle then put all charges up to that date.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/33060-basic-court-bundle.html

 

You may not be aware that you can claim beyond 6 years, please read in here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80486-claiming-beyond-6-yrs.html

 

Good Luck,

Hod.

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Guest louis wu
When you submit your court bundle then put all charges up to that date.

Basic Court Bundle

 

I am not so sure this is correct. Its my understanding that unless you change your claim (can't remember the form number, but it costs £35 - non claimable), then your bundle should include everything that was mentioned in your N1 of MCOL form, and not anything extra that you want to add on.

 

 

 

When you get your charges back do they pay you all even the ones your being charged now? i am the stage where i am waiting to get a court date.Will they pay me the lot?

 

When the bank call to settle your claim (which they will at some point), mention the other charges and try to get them to refund you. If they refuse, then you will need to start the process agan and claim anything that has accrued since your last claim.

 

Best of luck

 

Louis

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Tried paying a bill yesterday.But it declined.Phoned the bank.They said my overdraft has been took off.I reduced it like they asked asked me.So i have to wait for head office to let me know if i can have it back or not.Well p...d off.Its there way of getting back at me.I am waiting for the judge to see which direction to go from here.As the stay is up.

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Ooh Maggie, they are some sods aren't they? I know they had said they were going to review it, but this is out of order when your account is in dispute. Can I just ask if you were struggling to keep within your overdraft limit lately, or have had many charges?

 

If not this seems like retaliatory action to me, which is against the banking code.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Ooh Maggie, they are some sods aren't they? I know they had said they were going to review it, but this is out of order when your account is in dispute. Can I just ask if you were struggling to keep within your overdraft limit lately, or have had many charges?

 

If not this seems like retaliatory action to me, which is against the banking code.

 

I was struggling.But i had £450 that went in yesterday. so it brought me back up i think.But why do they have to ask head office?If i want to up my limmit i ask they usually put it up.They asked if i can reduce it.Which i did.My overdraft was £600.Now i got down to £400.Just waiting from head office to see what they say.I did write to the ombusman expalining i think i am being victimised.Cause i am claiming back my charges.They must have got onto the bank.Because the lad said to me this has nothning to do with you taking us to court.Its a review.Never had one before.So i am still waiting .Dont know weather to ring the bank again

Thinking about it i have had changes from working to going on incapacity benifit.

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I think if I were you maggie, I'd open up a new basic account somewhere else, and get your benefits and any other money paid in there as quickly as possible, unless you have another account you can use. Then write to YB reminding them that the account is in dispute, and that they should not take any further action until the dispute is resolved.

 

I opened a Nat West Step account as a parachute account, but lots of banks have basic accounts, although you can't get overdrafts with them. Once your charges are repaid you can clear the YB overdraft once and for all and close the account.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I think if I were you maggie, I'd open up a new basic account somewhere else, and get your benefits and any other money paid in there as quickly as possible, unless you have another account you can use. Then write to YB reminding them that the account is in dispute, and that they should not take any further action until the dispute is resolved.

 

I opened a Nat West Step account as a parachute account, but lots of banks have basic accounts, although you can't get overdrafts with them. Once your charges are repaid you can clear the YB overdraft once and for all and close the account.

 

I have my morgage.Isa accounts. loans. pay all my DDs.My tax credit payed in.family alowance. incopacity benenfit.Every thing gets pay in here.I have opened a other account TSB.I am really peeved of what they have done.

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I can imagine. I know it's a pain, but I was just thinking it might be worth changing banks anyway. Get YB off your back once and for all. It's up to you.

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I can imagine. I know it's a pain, but I was just thinking it might be worth changing banks anyway. Get YB off your back once and for all. It's up to you.

 

My morgage is with yorkshire bank.so are my loans.

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Ah right. Just a thought.

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I've got a similar problem with these 'people'. They refunded my charges but paid it straight into my account, then reduced my overdraft by the amount they refunded. I only went overdrawn in the first place because of charges. I have already opened another account with a different bank and transferred everything over to that account, but I was expecting to get the refund by cheque so I could pay it in to the new account.

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I've got a similar problem with these 'people'. They refunded my charges but paid it straight into my account, then reduced my overdraft by the amount they refunded. I only went overdrawn in the first place because of charges. I have already opened another account with a different bank and transferred everything over to that account, but I was expecting to get the refund by cheque so I could pay it in to the new account.

 

Hi i havent had refund.Phoned the courts this morning.(They were on strike yesterday) The lady said this is the longest yorkshire bank case she has know.In there courts.I am still waiting for head office to let me have my overdraft back.Still heard nothing since monday.They have returned a cheque for my avon charged me £35. B------s. They said its nothing to do with me taking them to court.Yeh right!

I am still overdrawn by £185.I do have this money in a other acount.If they want this paying i will pay it I will wait till they ask..I live in my overdraft and they know it. Thats why they are being funny i think.

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You need to specify how you want paying and can ask for it by cheque. They cannot impose conditions on the settlement, and that includes how they pay it.

 

Having said that, at least you no longer have the debt if it's been used to reduce the overdraft. I take it the overdraft was more than just charges robingetz.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Yeah, my overdraft consisted more than charges, but the extra money from the refund would have been better for me and I could have reduced the overdraft by a little and had the rest for myself. Now they are reducing it by £50 a month until it is paid, out of spite I think.

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Phoned head office today.Asking about my overdraft.Guess what they said? Its nothing to do with us regarding your overdraft its your local branch, Who put it back on. I rang customer services explained what head office had said.She said i will put you threw to your branch.Then she came back to me.And said they are in the middle of putting your overdraft back on now.Yet they wouldnt speak to me (my branch) It was them all the time being awkward with me.They have till 7 may to pay out or write and explain to the judge why they havent settled with me.

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Great news about the overdraft and here's hoping you get some good news regarding your court case in the next day or two :)

 

Sarah.

Yorkshire Bank

Started Process 19th Sept 2006.

All Stages Followed.

Next Step Court!

Hearing Date 7th June 2007.

WON!!!!! 6th June 2007 :D

 

Frequently Asked Questions

Example Step-By-Step Instructions

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Glad your overdraft is getting sorted Maggie. I thought it seemed odd that Head Office got involved in overdrafts.

 

Just to let you know that if you are on benefits, and need your money for living expenses etc, you can send the bank a letter of appropriation listing what you need, and they have to let you have the money, as benefits are the minimum amount of money the Government says you need to live on. I've attached a link for you here in case you ever need it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits.html?highlight=letter+of+appropriation#post289030

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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