Harvest V FD

[harvest]

Thanks Tiffla

 

One question -

 

I've just looked at the MCOL site and saved data I entered.

 

However, the recommended text on here doesn't fit within the 24 lines allowed under particulars of claim.

 

Did you produce a shortened version or did you print of form N1 and send it direct to the court?

 

Is there a standard shortened version of POC text floating around somewhere on the CAG site? that can be used for filing online with MCOL?

 

Bit of a basic question considering I've been looking through so meany threads but I can't see the wood for the trees on the MCOL stuff.

 

Thanks

[Tiffla]

Here's what i put...

 

The Claimant has an account XXXXXXXX with the Defendant.Since XX/XX/XXXX the Defendant debited charges and interest in respect of purported breaches of contract.Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has aleady been supplied. Claimant contends: The charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches;The Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforcable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law.Claiment claims;return of the amounts debited of £XXXX.XX;Interest per S69 County Courts Act 1984 of 8%-£XXX.XX continuing at 8% until judgement or settlement at a daily rate of £X.XX;Alternatively,if the charges are a fee for a service,then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply Of Goods and Services Act 1982.Costs allowed by the Court.

[harvest]

Many thanks Tiffla - really appreciate that.

 

Incidentally, I hadn't claimed contractual interest in my original claim but I've just tried to enter contractual interest on the Vampiress's spreadsheet and it adds up to quite a lot. I'm tempted to now claim this for the dillying-dallying antics of the bank.

 

I suppose it will then slow the claim up but I read in another thread that you can alter your claim right up until the date you file with the court.

 

Anyone else changed their claim (to add contractual interest) just before filing or is it seen as a bit sneaky?

[Tiffla]

Hi, Harvest.

 

I know what you mean by the interest adding up, I was gob smacked!!

 

At the end of the day, you’re not entitled to any of the interest until you file your claim, so when or if you do, you’ll notice the difference.

 

If you’re going to file a claim then it’s best to work out the interest on the same day as filing as the interest will change almost daily.

 

Go for it!!

[harvest]

Looking at my claim - when I file on Monday - it's going to be as follows

 

£charges+Contractual Interest+Court Costs+Judicial (8%) Interest=£Total Claimed through MCOL

 

It makes a (very) big difference to the total compared to what I originally claimed. I think this will drag it out a bit now but I'm ready for the wait and the little extra effort involved.

[harvest]

Completed my Court form ready to hand into the court on Monday, together with a schedule of charges (copy to go off to FD on Monday with a covering letter as well).

 

I didn't like the limitations on the MCOL form 24 lines / 1080 charactars) even though Tiffla kindly reproduced her text.

 

At least by handing this into the court I will know that the form, SOC etc will all be together and I can pay the court fee there as well.

 

Can't wait until Monday now. I'll wait for the Post Delivery first in case there's a full offer on Monday morning.

[harvest]

DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I HAVE MADE

 

I now have a DILEMMA

 

I have just been double checking my form and SOC to submit to the court on Monday (instead on filling MCOL in online).

 

I spotted something in my schedule of charges which didn't look right so I double checked my statements.

 

Long story short.

 

My original offer from FD said they had already refunded me £xx.xx

 

• I couldn't find this refund on my statements.
   
  
• In their second offer letter they reiterated that they had refunded me £xx.xx (They haven't said when / year / month)
   
  
• I have just discovered that they in fact refunded me almost double this amount back in 2003 plus a refund of debit interest. I never spotted this before because I was looking for charges in my statements not refunds.
   
  
• I have subsequently discovered a letter of complaint I made back in 2003 about the charges in question (this amazes me as I never normally complain) and a reply from First Direct which resulted in this refund.
  

 

While I still cannot find the £xx.xx refund that FD say they have made it would probably be wrong of me to ignore the refund I have spotted???

 

When I adjusted my Schedule of Charges (taking into account the refund I've found) it turns out FD's second offer is in fact way over what I should be entitled to. If I file it will also add 8% interest.

 

Shall I draw FD's attention to this or will it throw the whole thing out and risk the court dismissing my claim?

[Advoc8]

I think if you've received an offer that is more than you think you're entitled to (which is how I interpet your post) I think you really need to accept it.

[harvest]

Thanks Advoc8. I turned this offer down (genuinely not knowing about this refund) in a letter on 8th March.

 

I don't want to claim what I'm not entitled to. It might be a bit confusing to FD if I subsequently write to them and say I'll accept an offer lower than they've made. However, I think this is my only option.

 

I can't really file a claim in the court if they've already offered my my full claim+

 

At least my claim should be settled soon if FD agree the figures and I can make a donation on here and cheer people on from the sidelines.

[Advoc8]

Let us know how it goes. Hopefully a brief note saying you've reconsidered and now wish to accept their offer will do the trick.

[harvest]

Thanks Advoc8 - Just typed my letter.

 

Feels very odd saying:

 

"Dear First Direct....

You've offered me too much, I'll take less please"

 

Oh well, at least I'll avoid Prison for deception or concealment

 

And hopefully it means I'll be able to put up Won on here next week

[Advoc8]

And hopefully it means I'll be able to put up Won on here next week

Look forward to seeing it

[harvest]

Advice please - does this sound stupid or ok to send tomorrow?

 

This feels odd....

 

text of my letter (account details and amounts removed as per CAG guidelines)

 

Please FD, please pay me less than you last offered.

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxx

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Your Ref:XXXXXXXXX

Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX

 

 

In preparing my form to file at xxxxx County Court today (19th March 2007) I noticed that your last letter of 27th February 2007 and my subsequent reply of 8th March are both inaccurate in their statements concerning the amounts of charges and refunds.

 

 

I have prepared a revised Schedule of Charges. (attached)

 

 

In this schedule I have highlighted a refund of charges, made by First Direct on 24th September 2003. The value of refunded charges was £xxxx.

 

 

There has however, contrary to your letter of 27th February 2007, been no refund of £xxx - at least no refund of that amount has appeared on any statements during the period of my claim. Equally, you mentioned that you were ‘waiving’ a penalty fee of £xx. I do not know what this referred to but two additional fees of £xx and £xx were applied on 23rd February 2007.

 

 

You will see that the net result of all of this is a schedule of charges, (reflecting the refund of £xxx already applied to my account) totalling £xxxx.xx

 

 

This is

less than the £xxxx.xx you offered in full and final settlement

in your revised offer letter dated 27th February 2007.

 

 

If you are prepared to offer this (revised) amount in full, in settlement of my claim, I would be prepared to accept it. However, if you offer has been withdrawn I will have to continue with my claim via the courts.

 

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

[Advoc8]

Minor typo:

. However, if you

r

offer has been withdrawn I will have to continue with my claim via the courts.

But otherwise should be ok:)

 

[harvest]

Thanks Advoc8

 

I thought I'd phone FD just to double check they were aware of the refund before I sent my letter. I ended up speaking to the dept that had sent my revised offer letter and they told me that the offer had been withdrawn as I'd previously 'declined their offer'.

 

Seems I now have to go down the court route.

 

So in a fit of irritation at FD I've now checked what interest would be added (standard judicial 8%) and also just out of interest what contractual interest would add to the claim.

 

I'm going down the contractual interest route using Madzai's & Lucid's spreadsheet (Madzai & Lucid V Lloyds).

 

Will pop over to the court this afternoon and hand in my form, schedule of charges and pay the fee.

[Advoc8]

That's a pity, it would have been good to have this over and done with. Hope all goes well with the court proceedings

[harvest]

Thanks - yes it is a pity. I was hoping to have it all settled this week (would have been within a few weeks of starting my claim). Oh well:rolleyes:

 

Two things were clear from my conversation with them.

 

1. They were a bit miffed I'd turned down their revised offer: "Not everyone gets a revised offer you know." - Not sure how true that statement is.
   
2. They are clearly stressed: "Your claim is not the only claim we're dealing with. You can write again and put what you've said to me in writing but it may take some time to reply."

I almost felt sorry for them...Almost!

[Tiffla]

Hi, Harvest.

 

Too bad about the offer, it would have been great if they had settled once and for all over the phone.

 

FD have revised my offer twice and it was still nowhere near what I wanted, but at least I’ll gain a little more through the court when I get the interest too (it’s almost like a little savings (plan?)).

 

I too almost felt sorry for FD at one point – but then I thought ‘Hey, how sorry did you feel for me when I hit on hard times and begged for a bigger overdraft…..?’

You guessed it – zero tolerance, so now it’s my turn.

 

Hope everything all goes well, keep us posted.

[harvest]

Thanks Tiffla

 

It's my own foolish fault.

 

I should have checked my statement with greater care and thoroughness.

 

In my defence I was actually looking for all the charges on the statements - not refunds - but I should have noticed that such a big wad had credited the account.

 

Still, FD's claim in their offer letter, that they had refunded a different amount - without giving dates - threw me a bit. This amount hasn't shown up on any statement. Wonder if they just pluck figures out of the air?

 

Well my form is handed into the court now. I've paid my fee and will wait a bit longer.

[harvest]

Well, well, well...

 

I had a DHL "we tried to deliver a parcel" card when I got back yesterday.

For a moment I thought FD were courier-ing a 4th lot of statements. But No...

 

It was the notes on my account / manual intereventions etc.

 

Has anyone else had these I wonder?

 

Strangest print out I've ever seen - 8 pages of tightly packed short reference type information, notes of phone conversations etc.

 

The most interesting part comes right at the end of the document:

 

"LEGAL CHARGES LETTER REQ REFUND OF £XXXX.XX ON A/C xxxxxxxx REQ BREAKDOWN STATS ORDERED LTYC SENT

"PLEASE IGNORE ABOVE NOTE CREL TO REVIEW FEES SLA. COM REQUESTED £XXXX.XX BUT ALREADY HAD REFUND OF £XXX.XX AND £49 WAIVED ACCRUING OF £30 SO OFFERED £XXXX.XX WILL APPLY ONCE DEC RETURNED."

 

"AGREED TO HONOUR AS EXC ACC HISTORY SINCE 96 AND NO ISSUES"

 

Not sure what all this means but one lot of notes is headed "REFERENCE BOOK NOTES" and the other lot are titled "MARTINI NOTES".

 

Has anyone else had their notes? Did anyone else understand them?

[cookie121]

Harvest Yeah, I had this stuff too, just a whole lot of bumpf put in to distract you from your claim wouldn't have even bothered reading it, its irrelevant I had a letter yesterday from FD wanting to cough the 80% offer so just hanging on now for the 14th day of LBA, will of course have to write accepting as part payment, but they will have to do better

[harvest]

Glad you've finally had an offer Cookie and Glad you're not accepting it and going for the whole lot

 

One thing my notes have been useful for (apart from emergency bog roll)

is in how they have calculated the refunds they say I've had.

 

In their last offer letter they said 'you have already been refunded £xxx'

 

I wondered why this didn't appear on my statements and now I know.

 

They say you have had a refund if they were about to apply charges but didn't.

 

In First Direct's book that counts as a refund!!

 

But they then try and deduct this from the total you are claiming even if you didn't know anything about the charges they were about to apply and hadn't therefore included in your claim.

 

It's a sneaky tactic if you ask me and one I only spotted by reading the notes they sent.

[Tiffla]

Crafty little sock cookers, aren't they!!!

[cookie121]

personally and I know this is a little sad, but I hope to get to the courts so I can get the 8% too, call it compensation for all the turmoil they have caused me in the pass, luckily I am able to claim exemption from court fees so won't cost me either.hehe

[harvest]

I know what you mean Cookie.

 

In a perverse way I think a lot of people (including me) had a strange notion of wanting to be the first test case heard in court

 

Tiffla - yes they are cheeky, devious little !!!!