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    • I found that the parkin attended has a car with CCTV camera on it, however as I stated earlier, it seems that he did not take video of my car otherwise they would have stated so in the SAR. parking car .pdf
    • The rules state that "approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances"  I was not a threat. I was not present. I did not drive away. I think he has not fulfilled the necessary requirements justifying issuing me a PCN by post therefore the PCN was issued incorrectly and not valid.  What are your thoughts?  
    • I have also found this:  D.2 Service of a PCN by post: 54) There are some circumstances in which a PCN (under Regulation 10) may be served by post: 1) where the contravention has been detected on the basis of evidence from an approved device (approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances) 2) if the CEO has been prevented, for example by force, threats of force, obstruction or violence, from serving the PCN either by affixing it to the vehicle or by giving it to the person who appears to be in charge of that vehicle 3) if the CEO had started to issue the PCN but did not have enough time to finish or serve it before the vehicle was driven away and would otherwise have to write off or cancel the PCN 55) In any of these circumstances a PCN is served by post to the owner and also acts as the NtO. The Secretary of State recommends that postal PCNs should be sent within 14 days of the contravention. Legislation states that postal PCNs must be sent within 28 days, unless otherwise stated in the Regulations. This from London Councils Code of Practice on Civil Parking Enforcement.  The question is what is an approved device? Certainly, he had the opportunity to place the ticket on my car and I didn't drive away.  I looked further and it seems that an approved device is a CCTV camera - It seems that the photos taken were not actual film but images and it is not clear if they are taken from a video or are stills. I'm guessing if it was moving images then the SAR would have stated this.    From the Borough of Hounslow website: "There are two types of PCN issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004, which governs parking contraventions. The first is served on-street by a Civil Enforcement Officer, who will observe a vehicle and collect evidence before serving the PCN either by placing it in a plastic wallet under the windscreen wiper, or by handing it to the driver. The second is a PCN served by post, based on CCTV footage taken by an approved device, which has been reviewed by a trained CCTV Operator."   From Legislation.gov.uk regarding approved devices: Approved Devices 4.  A device is an approved device for the purposes of these Regulations if it is of a type which has been certified by the Secretary of State as one which meets requirements specified in Schedule 1. SCHEDULE 1Specified requirements for approved devices 1.  The device must include a camera which is— (a)securely mounted on a vehicle, a building, a post or other structure, (b)mounted in such a position that vehicles in relation to which relevant road traffic contraventions are being committed can be surveyed by it, (c)connected by secure data links to a recording system, and (d)capable of producing in one or more pictures, a legible image or images of the vehicle in relation to which a relevant road traffic contravention was committed which show its registration mark and enough of its location to show the circumstances of the contravention. 2.  The device must include a recording system in which— (a)recordings are made automatically of the output from the camera or cameras surveying the vehicle and the place where a contravention is occurring, (b)there is used a secure and reliable recording method that records at a minimum rate of 5 frames per second, (c)each frame of all captured images is timed (in hours, minutes and seconds), dated and sequentially numbered automatically by means of a visual counter, and (d)where the device does not occupy a fixed location, it records the location from which it is being operated. 3.  The device and visual counter must— (a)be synchronised with a suitably independent national standard clock; and (b)be accurate within plus or minus 10 seconds over a 14-day period and re-synchronised to the suitably independent national standard clock at least once during that period. 4.  Where the device includes a facility to print a still image, that image when printed must be endorsed with the time and date when the frame was captured and its unique number. 5.  Where the device can record spoken words or other audio data simultaneously with visual images, the device must include a means of verifying that, in any recording produced by it, the sound track is correctly synchronised with the visual image.
    • Hearing took place today.  Case dismissed with costs awarded. Neither UKPC or a representative turned up.  Apparently they messaged the court on 7 May asking for their case to be considered on paper.  Never informed me, which was criticised by the judge as not following procedure.  I was really annoyed as I would have preferred for the case to be thrown out before the hearing, or at least face them in court and see them squeal.   They are just playing a numbers game and hope you blink 1st!   Ended up having to change my flight, but  the costs awarded softens the blow. Was asked to confirm it was my signature on both the witness statement and supplementary statement.  Wasn't asked to read them, said she could see my arguments made and the signs were insufficient and no contract formed. Took maybe 10 mins in total.  Judge did most of the talking and was best for me just to keep quiet or confirm any statements made. Happy to have won as a matter of principle and have costs awarded. Maybe not worth all the time and hassle for any newbies or the technologically challenged.  But if you are stubborn like me and willing to put in the time and effort, you can beat these vultures! I big shout out to everyone who helped on the thread with their advice and guidance, special mention to FTMDave, thank you sir!  Really appreciate everyone's efforts. All the best!
    • I plan to be honest to avoid any further trouble, tell them that the name should be changed to my official name
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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pt2537 v Black Horse Finance


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Hi everyone.

 

 

well sent my S.A.R on Friday 5th january 07 to Black Horse and DAMM they were quick :eek: the statements dropped on my mat this morning.

 

i have gone through the statements and i have worked out that they owe me 871.00 without the 8% interest.

 

im fairly confident with reclaiming my bank charges from Lloyds BUT im not so confident with Black Horse.

 

can anyone please tell me if the proceedure is the same for black horse loans as it is for reclaiming bank charges? i have looked through the forum and all i find are letters aimed at bank charges but nothing i have come accross says anything about reclaiming loan fees i:e late payment charges and returned direct debit charges. anyone who could offer a few pointers on how to proceed that would be great . its just i dont want to mess anything up by saying or doing the wrong thing

 

 

thanks

 

 

paul

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Hi stansfield5131

 

thanks . that puts my mind at rest a little. its my first time reclaiming charges and its a very daunting task and i just wanted to make sure i "cross the T`s and dot the I`s" so to speak. dont want to give them any chance to wriggle out of returning whats mine.

 

i will be sending the preliminary letter in the morning asking for my money back and suppose i will have to wait and see what happens.

 

 

thanks for your help

 

paul

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Hi pt2537

I was just checking through the threads for someone claiming back from Black Horse for a loan. I'm in the same boat, I'm claiming back from Nationwide at the moment but am annoyed with Black Horse and the way they treat you so thought I'd claim from these too - hey it's our money!!

Glad to see you are claiming back from them too - I will follow your thread to watch your progress

Good Luck

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Hi Lu1

 

firstly good luck with your claims.

 

i agree its our money that the barstewards have taken from us so why shouldnt we claim them back.

 

between me and the missus weve got 6 claims on the go now . weve got lloyds,B/Horse, egg ,the woolwich, GEcapital and barclays so it should be fun over the next few months

 

black horse have 14 days to respond now as they have recieved the prelim letter via special delivery today at 10 am so we will have to wait and see

 

i will keep updating the thread on here to keep everyone posted on my progress

 

regards

 

paul

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Could you tell me the address you used? Shall I use my local office in Gloucester?

Barclays Bank - SETTLED - £4225.00

First National - SETTLED - £125.00

Lloyds TSB - SETTLED - £994.87

Capital 1 - SETTLED - £827.95

Online Finance - SETTLED - £349.60

Argos - SETTLED - £121.00

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Hi mollymoo

 

as far as im aware they can, they are fees that are just another name for late payment charges and should therefore be recoverable . atleast thats what i have been led to believe.

 

i will update this post when i get a response to my prelim letter

 

 

Regards

paul

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, 14 Days have passed and no sign of a reply from Black Horse regarding my prelim letter. so off went the Letter Before Action this morning . they have another 14 days then its off to the county court at southampton to file my claim.

 

 

does anyone know if this is normal for black horse to totally ignore the first letter?

 

 

regards

paul

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It happens a lot with loan companies and banks. Sometimes they dont even know whats hit them until you file a MCOL. That makes them sit up and take notice. As long as you have sent letters by recorded and checked they have been signed for, dont worry. You are doing OK.

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PT dont worry I just got my claim paid in full by these muppets and they dont drag their heels nearly as much as Barclays or The Woolwich believe me !!! Its totally normal for them to ignore the first letter, the LBA they respond too as do most of the banks but it will be a "yea whateva" letter. Submit your claim, they'll acknowledge but settle as a "goodwill gesture" before entering a defence. Keep your chin up..... your about 1 month away from getting your money back matey :)

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Hi mrpromiscous

 

thanks .

 

its good to hear you have had success against Black Horse, i just wanted to ask what address did you use on the court form N1 for black horse?

i sent my prelim letter and LBA to their branch in southampton but im not sure what to put on the N1 form where it asks for the defendants address

 

thanks

 

paul

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I just started my BH claim. I sent a SAR on Thursday as i had to loan with these guys and PPI. You're a little bit ahead of me so we'll see who gets the payout first :)

Barclays Bank - SETTLED - £4225.00

First National - SETTLED - £125.00

Lloyds TSB - SETTLED - £994.87

Capital 1 - SETTLED - £827.95

Online Finance - SETTLED - £349.60

Argos - SETTLED - £121.00

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Hi PT,

 

First off, good luck with the claim. I've subscribed to your thread and will be watching.

 

I, too, want to go after these people re. my loan; not only because the charges are wrong, but also because of their attitude. I've spoke to some right rude sods from their collection centre.

 

The problem I have is that they haven't actually taken the 'late payment fees' from me yet, but "will add them at the loan's end." That said, they do ask for payment of them any time they ask for my payment if it's late in any way.

 

Anyone have a suggestion on how to change the wording of the Prelim letter to accommodate this situation?

 

MrP, is this how it was with you? Did you just use the bank template as normal?

 

Thanks in advance, folks.

 

OB :)

Please read the Stickies and FAQs. Your question may have been answered already.

 

Old Bear vs. NatWest - won after first letter £600

Mrs Bear vs. Studio - won after first letter £360

Old Bear vs. Abbey - won after first letter - only £50, but it's the principle

Old Bear vs. Black Horse - £117 of charges wiped off 2 loans, but more WILL follow

Mrs Bear vs. Index (Littlewoods) - SAR sent - 2/2/2007

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Hi Oldbear. Yes you just reclaim these in exactly the same way. Dont forget that if they have added them to the loan, you will be paying interest on them too. Reclaim them back as you would bank charges and say you wanted them deducting from the debt together with any interest paid on them.

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Got you, Stan.

 

Thanks very much, **clicks scales** :D

 

OB

Please read the Stickies and FAQs. Your question may have been answered already.

 

Old Bear vs. NatWest - won after first letter £600

Mrs Bear vs. Studio - won after first letter £360

Old Bear vs. Abbey - won after first letter - only £50, but it's the principle

Old Bear vs. Black Horse - £117 of charges wiped off 2 loans, but more WILL follow

Mrs Bear vs. Index (Littlewoods) - SAR sent - 2/2/2007

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Good luck, Watching with interest. I have sent off my S.A.R already - good luck

 

Gilly

Nationwide - Initial letter 06 th Dec 06.

LBA 20th dec 06.

MCOL 05th Jan 07.

Paid in full 17th Jan 07.

 

Lloyds - S.A.R requested 12th Dec.

Acknowledged 20th Dec 06.

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Hi Paul,

 

From reading some of the Black Horse cases, you might be waiting some time for a response :evil: Good luck, though, I hope they get their act together. I'll be following yours as I'm about to send the first letter to them myself. It's on behalf of my husband, and he's actually just sent off the final payment in the post this weekend, but received a letter saying 'additional charges have been attracted' so they 'propose' that we keep making regular payments to cover these charges. Can anyone tell me if we can 'propose' not to pay these charges and hold off whilst we go through the process of claiming this, or is it best to pay and then claim it back?

******************

HSBC £4,528

Began process with S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on 5/7/06

Recieved payment on 21/4/07

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Good Luck everyone with your claims against the black horse

 

ive just been told by my partner that black horse called today in response to my LBA saying they were dealing with my request and will be intouch shortly. i wont hold my breath but you never know they may change tact and pay up without the trouble of having to go to court.then again pigs may fly!!!!!!!

 

 

i will update the thread again when i know more

 

regards

paul

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Hi Pt, I hope you don't mind subscribing to this thread, I've got/had some horrendous problems with Black Horse already, and I'll be interested to see what responses you get - or contact names/numbers you've been given as I'm getting blanked all over.

I wish you luck with your claim, and hope that you actually get your delivery proofs-I've had 2 rec dels not signed by BH but sort of replied to weeks later!

All the best!

 

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

From reading some of the Black Horse cases, you might be waiting some time for a response :evil: Good luck, though, I hope they get their act together. I'll be following yours as I'm about to send the first letter to them myself. It's on behalf of my husband, and he's actually just sent off the final payment in the post this weekend, but received a letter saying 'additional charges have been attracted' so they 'propose' that we keep making regular payments to cover these charges. Can anyone tell me if we can 'propose' not to pay these charges and hold off whilst we go through the process of claiming this, or is it best to pay and then claim it back?

 

Hi GPM - did you receive any notification that you have incurred charges during the operation of your agreement? If not, I think it would be contestable that they have not properly notified you!

I would personally advise sending your SAR Special Delivery (to confirm it is received and signed for) and also send them a CCA request http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/58105-moorcroft-my-dad.html?highlight=template look at post number 13 as a template! The sar and cca requests then place the account on 'hold' so to speak, whilst you get confirmation of where the charges have come from!

 

Best wishes

If my advice has helped, please click on my scales. Thank you!

MBNA - CRA file to be cleared then finished!

__________________________________________

Abbey Personal - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

Capital One - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

GMAC - Sent DCA SAR 9th March 07 - confirmed not legally assigned.

Waiting for GMAC to provide breakdown of charges and CCA under s79

__________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court.

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