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    • statute barring in Scotland is 5yrs from last payment/use date or date of default Notice + 14 days, whichever is the later. dont confuse that with the 6yrs debts show on credit files (DN's 6th bday regardless to payment or not). they'd never get a claim raised by august in 99% of cases . as long all these debts were taken out whilst resident in scotland and you have not moved since taking them out but failed to inform the original creditor before the debt sale....... then stay radio silent until sb date is reached. then if you wish send our scottish sb letter. just remember unlike E&W in scotland debts are extinguished, dead , gone , parrot. once SB'd dx  
    • Hi all, Love this site and it's no nonsense advice, have dipped in and out of the consumer forums over the years, mostly to assure myself that what I was doing was the right thing when dealing with various businesses (almost 100% success rate, thanks in part to reading and more reading here.). Anyway, the time is almost approaching where I might need to ask for some specific help and I have a couple of queries that I can't see definitively answered. Due to financial mismanagement and severe anxiety issues I stopped paying all unsecured debt in December 2018 (one slipped to the first week in Jan 2019 when the last payment was made having rechecked my bank statement from that period - all my unsecured debt direct debits were cancelled in early Jan 2019). This has left half a dozen debts;  a couple of credit cards, a bank loan, Shop Direct and some Hitachi Finance stuff having been sold on and passing the rounds through the usual suspects, Lowells, Link, PRA Group, others related to them, and then back to them again. I have somehow successfully managed to maintain radio silence and avoided anything more worrying than their begging letters.  I have blocked their phone calls and texts, bumped all emails to the spambox and had a chuckle at their desperate letters.  I've never had anybody at the door.  I have been at the same address since before I defaulted and all correspondence comes to my current home address.  I have NEVER contacted them or admitted any debt. In anticipation of them perhaps ramping up action at the last minute I've had a look at my credit report on Credit Karma (rec'd from this very place) and I see that the default dates on these range from May 2019 to November 2019. Also in preperation I've been reading, reading and reading lots here as advised. Obviously being in Scotland there are a lot fewer posts relating to these matters and it's always quite annoying when OP's do not follow up with any outcome on their cases - how rude! This has also left me a bit confused of when I am able to finally breathe easy (although cancelling all the direct debits in Jan 2019 was the biggest sigh of relief as I knew it was all going to be unmanageable and, well, default one, default all.). I've been reading that defaults should be filed 3-6 months after the missed payment but one of my larger debts was defaulted on 27th August 2019 when the last payment I made was 10th December 2018, meaning the first missed payment was 10th Jan 2019.   My query for now is - when should I infer that these debts are prescribed?  From when the payment was missed, or taking the default date plus 5 years from the credit report? The three I have with the May date are moot anyway as either way they are gone  - some letters from Lowell offering me 90% off to settle is what got me thinking these must have been near SB status, however I have one big 10k+ with a July date and another 10k+ at the end of August I am feeling a bit anxious again, even though I know there is nothing to worry about with the begging letters.  Reading the various forums I am not sure why the OC's didn't take action against me when I read time and again the surprise that other posters haven't already been taken to court for lesser amounts - I'm also surprised I've avoided any action this long as there are plenty in this forum and sub forum who are whisked off to the court by the beggers minions after only a year or so after defaulting.  There are no CCJ/decrees listed on my credit report and I have not received any such judgements against me.  I still just regularly receive the begging emails to the spambox, the blocked phone calls and the letters from the they. I'm also reading that there is no need in Scotland to send an LBC so what should I be looking out for to know that the time has come to engage with CCA requests etc? I'm afraid in a fit I threw a lot of the paperwork out but I have a box of stuff I'm going to go through which may have the original letters from the OC's. Thanks in advance for any advice.  
    • I'm at work now but promise to look in later. Can you confirm how you paid the first invoice?  It wasn't your fault if the signal was so poor and there was no alternative way to pay.  There must be a chance of reversing the charge with your bank.  There are no guarantees but Kev  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09766749/officers  has never had the backbone to do court so far.  Not even in one case,  
    • OK  so you may not have outed yourself if you said "we". No matter either way you paid. Snotty letter I am surprised that they were so quick off the mark threatening Court. They usually take months to go that far. No doubt that as you paid the first one they decided to strike quickly and scare you into paying. Dear Chuckleheads  aka Alliance,  I am replying to your LOCs You may have caught me the first time but that is  the end. What a nasty organisation you are. You do realise that you now have now no reason to continue to pursue me after reading my appeal since you know that my car was not cloned. Any further pursuit will end up with a complaint to the ICO that you are breaching my GDPR.  Please confirm that you have removed my details from your records. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I haven't gone for a snotty letter this time as they know that you paid for your car in another car park. So using a shot across their bows .  If it doesn't deter them and they send in the debt collectors or the Court you will then be able to get more money back from them for  breachi.ng your data protection than they will get should they win in Court-and they have no chance of that as you have paid. So go in with guns blazing and they might see sense.  Although never underestimate how stupid they are. Or greedy.
    • Thank you. Such a good point. They did issue all 3 before I paid though. I only paid one because I didn’t have proof of parking that time, only for two others.    Unfortunately no proof of my appeal as it was just submitted through a form on their website and no copy was sent to me. I only have the reply. I believe I just put something like “we made the honest mistake of using the incorrect parking area on the app” and that’s it. Thanks again for your help. 
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Son of Steven4064 vs NatWest ***WON***


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Son of Steven4064 (let's call him Steven4065) sent SAR on 14th December and got all his statements within 4-5 days but nothing else.

 

Sent a reminder on 2 January pointing out that they had until 25th January to comply fully with his request. Letter copied to Data Protection Manager (Alex Lyons) in Edinburgh.

 

From the statements it looks like the claim will be over £1500.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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We received the following reply yesterday:

 

"DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 I write in response to your letter dated 2 January 2007.

- Manual Intervention

With reference to your request concerning any 'manual intervention' to the administrative charges debited, these charges have been processed in accordance with the terms and conditions of our current agreement with you as a result of the activity on your account. In the event that you breach the terms and conditions, we will take the appropriate action, contacting customers when appropriate, or handling customer enquiries regarding their account status. When a customer has raised a concern in relation to this process, the decision will be communicated to the customer and where appropriate noted on the account.

If you have any problems please do not hesitate to contact us at the above address.

Yours sincerely,

Joyce E Tudor-

Retail Regulatory Risk"

 

 

 

Reminded MsTudor that they have util 23rd to answer the question properly or we'll apply for a court order. See what delaying tactics they try next.

 

 

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Reminded MsTudor that they have util 23rd to answer the question properly or we'll apply for a court order. See what delaying tactics they try next.

 

I understand your frustration, but I wouldn't apply for a court order at this stage, if that is your intention. Stick to the plan, and follow the step-by-step guide contained within this forum. Any judge will need to see that you are being both 'fair and reasonable' when dealing with this matter. It will save a lot of red-faces in the long run:)

Either way, good luck.

:DSUCCESSESS:D

NATWEST01&02 won over 4k

See how

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-successes/31683-muggins73-natwest.html

 

:)CURRENT CLAIMS:)

HALIFAX03

19-SEPT-07 APPLICATION TO HAVE STAY LIFTED

02-OCT-07 APPLICATION REFUSED

LLOYDS TSB04

10-MAY-07 LBA

 

ABBEY05

19-SEPT-07 LBA

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Would you credit it? (probably yes)

 

They have replied by sending exaclty the same letter again! Anyway, muggins73, we'll take your advice and go straight to the initial request for payment, rather than applying to the court for the missing information (that there have been no manual interventions). Presumably, we can always refer to this unhelpfulness on the N1 (can we?), if we get to that.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Letter from Stu this morning with a whole load of self-justification and a pile of brochures with terms and conditions for all sorts of Nat West offeings.

 

After wading through the guff there is, as a gesture of goodwill, an offer of £1415.00 in full and final settlement.

 

This is everything we asked for except for £157 interest and in response to our Initail Request for Repayment.

 

Seems Nat West is on the run.

 

Steven

 

 

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However...

 

there is a sting in the tail. After waffling on about how wonderful they are in providing all their wonderful services for free they say,

 

"Whilst many of our services are provided without a corresponding charge, we do make charges when customers, by their actions, request an increase to or the creation of an overdraft in excess of their previously agreed limit. By reviewing such requests we provide an additional service to customers, in many instances allowing items to be paid either by creating or increasing an overdraft. These charges can be avoided entirely by arranging suitable borrowing facilities in advance."

 

Now that begs a whole load of questions: If I go overdrawn beacuse they slap an unlawful charge did I really 'request' it (perhaps I was just 'asking for it'). And do they really review my account every time I go overdrawn - I think not. (and if they do, how much does it cost - I bet we'd all like to know that!) And if they really do, why so coy about manual interventions?

 

Then the sting...

 

"Any charges that properly accrue in the future will be applied to your account in line with our published tariff and in accordance with your agreement with the bank. Should you be unwilling to accept any such charges, then we may need to consider if we are prepared to continue to provide you with your existing banking facilities. Instead we may offer you a simple account that does not offer borrowing facilities or other services that can result in charges."

 

Well of course, I don't mind (well almost not) paying charges that 'properly accrue', but that's the whole point, isn't it?

 

We were thinking of accepting the offer (even though it doesn't include interest) but it seems in so doing we would effectively be agreeing to pay their unlawful charges in the future. On another thread NATTIE said we couldn't sign away our rights - quite right too. So, how should we proceed?

 

I am beginningto think we should carry on, accept the offer as a partial offer only, and go for the rest so that we get an unconditional offer. What does anyone else think?

  • Haha 1

 

 

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Hi

 

This is exactly the same letter as I got. I asked for charges plus contractual at 29%. They offered charges, but no interest, so I have written back offering to accept charges plus s69.

 

Awaiting response.

 

This is a new tactic by Nat West and does have some implications especially for new claims. It will be up to each individual to decide if they think it is worth going through the whole court process to try to get s69 or contractual and I get the feeling reading thro the posts on this site that the courts are not always sympathetic to claims for contractual.

 

If you are confident of your claim then you have to decide if the time and effort is worth it for the interest!

 

This gets interesting!

Bicester1

 

MBNA WON £623

:)

GM Card Won £580

:)

Nat West CC Won £525.08

:)

Nat West Bank Won £2346.60:)

Lloyds PPI LBA

Barclaycard defence received. Trial date 30th July. Barclays missed deadline for servicing and filing of their bundle! Going to try for strikeout or summary disposal

HBOS about to issue N1

LLoys Bank LBA

 

I am not a lawyer. Get trained professional advice if unsure of your legal position. If my advice is helpful please tip my scales!

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I think that getting the interest or not is now secondary. The implications of them trying to get us to agree to future charges is the sinister element that has come in. This also seems to be a new tactic.

 

It will be that rather then the interest that makes us press on I think so that we can get an offer wit hno strings attached.

 

Steven

 

 

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Ah, so that is how the new account I heard of a few months ago is going to work, No direct debits and no standing orders allowed and only atm withdrawal card. Now i did think it was for this reason and now i see it in black and white. By the way the first bit of the letter, re service is part of new t&c's effective from 1st February 2007

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So the booklet they sent me (NWB 3773 December 2006) contains new T&Cs. It lays out all the unlawful charges VERY clearly (p12) and very helpfully.

 

NATTIE, what is your opinion on post 8. Am I right to continue to get an offer with no strings. I know what they are trying to do but, surely, getting us to effectively sign to accept the charges in the future doesn't make them any more lawful. And there is an implied 'or else' in there too. Or else what?

 

Also, the sentence about reviewing informal overdraft requests is obviously nonsense. But further, it is an attempt to deceive us into believing they do something for the money they take. I think that one could argue that the two things (deceptive claim to provide a 'service' and the attempt to 'persuade' us to accept the charges 'or else') probably constitute an abuse of position and hence are an offence under s4 of the Fraud Act 2006, or are dangerously close to doing so.

 

I am thinking of writing to the CEO of NatWest along these lines and pointing out that his staff (Stu et al) are putting him in a position where he personally could be prosecuted under s12 of the same act.

 

 

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Hi

 

Yes like the Fraud Act! Would be very interesting to see the response.

 

Bicester1

 

 

MBNA WON £623

:-)

GM Card Won £580 :-)

Barclaycard LBA :-x

Nat West Bank offer received negotiating :p

Nat West CC offer received negotiating :p

Lloyds PPI prelim:wink:

 

 

Any advice is given informally. I am not a lawyer. Consult a trained professional if unsure of your legal position. If my advice is helpful please tip my scales!

Bicester1

 

MBNA WON £623

:)

GM Card Won £580

:)

Nat West CC Won £525.08

:)

Nat West Bank Won £2346.60:)

Lloyds PPI LBA

Barclaycard defence received. Trial date 30th July. Barclays missed deadline for servicing and filing of their bundle! Going to try for strikeout or summary disposal

HBOS about to issue N1

LLoys Bank LBA

 

I am not a lawyer. Get trained professional advice if unsure of your legal position. If my advice is helpful please tip my scales!

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so sir fred Goodwin head of RBS GRoup plc limited. The non formal request is in the new T&C's leaflet sent out in statement insert November December and January. My personal opinion has always been that contractual interest is a difficult one to argue but each to their own. You can cross out conditions and return it to NatWest but always keep a copy

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The interest on our claim is the actual interest charged by NatWest on the overdraft when the overdraft consisted entirely of charges. That doesn't seem unreasonable. We have certainly not claimed contractual interest on all teh charges whatever as some are trying.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Quick update. Sent Letter before Action on 17 Feb but unfortunately (stupid me!!!) left the date the same as for the initial request for payment - 27 January. Nat West responded with an identical response to the one they sent in reposnse to the initial request except that it said, "Thank you for your letter of 25 January..."

 

So we have degenerated into complete confusion!

 

We have decided that the best thing to do is to ignore the last 2 letters and send the LBA again with the correct date. The 14 days now ends on 31st March.

 

 

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We (hubby & I) both sent initial request letters 20.02.07. Hubby got an offer last week £1700 (£90 less than claimed) and has accepted. They haven't replied to any of my letters so sent LBA 7th March. Think they are bogged down and won't have noticed your duplicate!

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Let's hope we don't just go round in circles.

 

On another tack, (see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/56427-theft-act-15a-there.html) I am thinking of sending the follwoing to the CEO of RBOS group (owners of Nat West):

 

Sir Fred Goodwin

The Royal Bank of Scotland plc,

36 St Andrew Square,

Edinburgh,

EH2 2YB

 

Dear Sir Fred,

 

My son has recently been in correspondence with the Customer Relations department of Nat West with a view to reclaiming charges imposed on his account for unauthorised overdrafts and refused direct debit payments, which he, along with many others, believe to be unlawful. In his latest response, Stuart Higley says the following,

 

Whilst many of our services are provided without a corresponding charge, we do make charges when customers, by their actions, request an increase to or the creation of an overdraft in excess of their previously agreed limit. By reviewing such requests we provide an additional service to customers, in many instances allowing items to be paid either by creating or increasing an overdraft.”

 

The Nat West booklet NWB3773 spells out that a charge is applied to the account of a customer who makes an “informal request” for an overdraft by inadvertently going overdrawn, etc, or indeed by going overdrawn because of a charge imposed on the account by the bank itself. The above paragraph implies that someone reviews this “informal request” as part of the services offered by the bank. Now everyone knows that no one does any such thing. All that happens is that the computer automatically imposes the penalty charge. This paragraph is dishonest, and the dishonesty is an attempt to justify an unlawful act (the imposition of a penalty for breach of contract) by the bank.

 

I would like to draw your attention to section 4 of the Fraud Act 2006, which say that an offence has been committed if a person

 

(a) occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,

(b) dishonestly abuses that position, and

© intends, by means of the abuse of that position—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

 

Section 12 of the same Act says that if the offence is committed by a corporate body with the consent of “a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body Corporate” then that officer is also guilty of an offence and liable to be proceeded against.

 

Now it seems to me that Mr Higley’s letter could be putting you and other directors of Royal Bank of Scotland group in a position where you might be open to prosecution under this Act since Nat West is obviously in a position where it is expected to safeguard customers’ financial interests and, as I pointed out above, Mr Higley’s letter constitutes dishonest abuse of that position with a view to making a gain for the bank and causing a loss for the customer.

 

I felt that you ought to be made aware, if you are not already, of the possible consequences of actions by your staff.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Steven4064

 

Any comments anyone?

 

rolleyes.gif

:rolleyes:

 

 

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steven4064

I've got a comment that may or not be of consequential help I dont know, but reference your third paragraph, I would think that their staement may be hard to prove as dishonest, but I think you would have a better chance of proving "Negligent miss-statements" which is covered by the Libel Act, under the New Libel Act it is no longer necssary to prove damage. Have a look at the New Act it might be useful it might not.

 

I think they are making negligent miss statements.

 

sparkie1723

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Don't worry steven.......... nearly there now mate!!! Good luck, hedgey xxx :p

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