ColdSeal - Poorly fitted upvc windows - offered full refund then rescinded - now threatening court for payment

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Had issues with windows, fitted last September,

ongoing complaints,

no one ever came out to check the windows, only the fitter who fitted them in the first place,

I had a surveyor come in to do a report, told company, they offered a refund in May, then backtracked, 

can they do this,

they are now threatening me with court..

thanks

[BankFodder]

I think you have to give us much more detail about the story before we can advise you.

First of all you should start naming the companies involved – the fitters involved – the make of the windows –. There is no downside to this.

You made a contract with XXX person to install windows.
Who supplied the windows?
What was the cost?
You instructed the surveyor – when did this happen? How much did this cost?
And I don't especially understand because from what you have posted, it appears that you have paid them. They offered a refund so from the sounds of it you don't owe them any money and yet they are threatening to sue you.

Please read what you have written. Maybe get a friend to read it as if it makes sense then.

They all out please in a chronological order.

Not too much narrative.

Well spaced and punctuated so that it is easy to read especially on small screen such as telephones

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? the issue is the deposit paid, balance not paid

[BankFodder]

Thank you but you haven't addressed any of my questions

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The windows were fitted last year, end of August beginning of September, issues from the start, they did try and address some of the issues on two occasions, I asked for someone to come out and check the windows, no one from the company did, they just sent the fitter back, who would not sort all issues out.

I paid £360.00 for a surveyor to check the windows last May, no one would come out and discuss the issues in the report with me, but I discussed the contents of the report with the boss over the phone, he agreed to refund the deposit paid, and sent an email to back up the phone conversation, in the email they said for me to return the windows to them, I emailed back and said for them to pick up the windows when my new ones were fitted

(I have not had them replaced yet as waiting for my deposit back)

I think because of this they backtracked, thanks for your time

[BankFodder]

Thank you. That's us to make better sense.
You haven't told us the name of the company. There is no point in protecting them. It will only help us to help you if we have as much detail as possible.

Presumably you have had a threatening message from the company. Please will you post it here.

You have paid £360 for a surveyor – we can help you get that back but we need to seal the correspondence.
I understand that the windows were so bad that they can't be repaired and you are going to replace them. Are you going to use the same company or different company?

You say that you are still waiting for the return of your deposit – so I don't really understand why they are claiming from you when they are holding your money.



 

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Coldseal Eco Upgrades

Sep 12, 2023, 1:40 PM (13 days ago)

to me,

 

 

Quote

 

Good Afternoon,

Unfortunately at stage we have exhausted all options, you will not allow any member of your team to establish a resolution. I am now giving you 14 days notice to pay the balance of the contract dated 29^th June 2022.

Goods remain property of coldseal eco upgrades ltd until full payment is received.

If full payment is not received in 14 days we will have no option but to start legal proceedings.

(This was sent via checkatrade)

 

Coldseal Eco Upgrades

COLDSEALECO.CO.UK

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Double glazing specialists • For a greener future

 

 

also, they asked to send an independent surveyor out, I agreed, they never showed up,

all I asked was that they supply me with the name of the company/surveyor that would be coming and for the to show id when they came,

I am getting on in age so wary of who I open the door to(with good reason)

Coldseal Eco Upgrades <[email protected]>

Jun 12, 2023, 11:56 AM

to me

 

Good morning Mr/s

This email is further to our telephone conversation on Friday 9/06/23.

As discussed I am willing to refund your deposit for contract number xxxxx.

I accept that you are not satisfied with the installation however you have stated that you are happy with the quality of the product.

The terms of this agreement made between me and yourself is based upon you returning the goods back to us once you have had them replaced by another company, Ideally within 3 months of this email if possible however I do understand it could possibly take longer due to other factors.

I am sorry that we could not reach an alternative solution and apologise on behalf of the company and the for the staff that you feel have let you down.

This offer of a full refund is full and final settlement of the complete cancellation of our contract and we will no longer be contracted to yourself in any way once the deposit has been refunded. Could I also ask if possible could you remove the review you have put up.

Pease advise further if you are in agreement with this offer so we can finally get this matter resolved.

Ben Degnan

Director

 Coldseal Eco Upgrades Ltd

Tel 01274 674929

Free phone 0800 038 6250

 

 

[BankFodder]

Okay I am trying to build up a picture of this but it is rather fragmented in the way that you are posting.

• On XXX date (you haven't told us) you contracted with a company called Cold Seal to supply and fit some replacement windows.
• You agree to pay them £XXX (you haven't told us this either).
• At the end of the fitting, you realise that the work was unsatisfactory (you haven't said in what way it was unsatisfactory)
• You brought in a surveyor to carry out an inspection and this cost you £360 which you paid out of your own pocket.
• I understand that the surveyor was brought in at their prompting – and if so, I don't understand why you had to pay the money.
• The surveyor's report confirmed your view that the installation was inadequate – is this correct? (You haven't told us)
• Can the window installation be corrected or does it mean a replacement?
• As part of the installation you paid a deposit – (you haven't told us how much).
• There is £XXX (you haven't told us) outstanding to the company and they want to be paid and they are threatening you.

This is been going on for a year – and I have no idea why you have delayed so long.
Have you had any other inspections?
Have you investigated the replacement of the faulty installation?
Have you obtained a quote for the replacement?

I see that they say that you have been preventing them resolving the situation – is this correct?
What steps have they taken to resolve the situation?
If you have been preventing them – then why? I do understand what you say about not letting people in that at some point if you want the matter resolved then you will have to. Please tell us more.



Please can you deal with these details and if you have other information that might be useful, maybe you could let us know that as well so that we can get this part the discussion over with instead of having to chase you for every last bit of information.

[BankFodder]

Also, they apparently offered you a refund and then backtracked.
Got any idea why this is?

Please can you post up the emails or messages referring to this. If they are document form then in multipage single file PDFs please

[bittersweet]

No idea, I thought it was because I asked them to pick up the windows when ready for collection, no clear reason..

as above because exhausted all options

yes I got new quotes from different companies,

Edited September 25, 2023 by bittersweet

[BankFodder]

I asked you to let us have the correspondence involved in that. You haven't done so.
Also I posted a list of bullet points and emphasising the information that we didn't have – and you haven't responded that either.

If you want us to help you then you have to let us have the information we are asking for.
We are doing this free of charge but there is no need to make us work so hard for this.
If you are paying £300 an hour some sinister I expect that you would come up with information without being prompted.
I see that you just have said that you got quotes from different companies but you haven't told us anything about that.

We can't work in the dark. And we don't want to start solving your riddles.

We can help you if you want to give this information.

Maybe you want to sit back and work out what information we need to get the full story. 

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I had to get a surveyor out, and pay him myself, nothing to do wuth them off my own back so to speak, as I was asking the company from September/ 22 to please come and check windows regarding my complaints.

Thanks again

Their sales person came out to take my order for windows,  about two days later in june/22,  the order was slightly changed by their surveyor on that day he did the measuring the same day I paid the deposit..

he was insisting that the windows should all be/look the same, I did stress it was difficult to reach over the sink,..he would not give in and I gave up to get them to go, the deposit of £1,425 was paid that day before they left.

I did email and asked them to please go back to my original order what I was quoted for, they did except for the kitchen window, I asked for normal bottom opener as it is over the sink and hard to get to..

The fitter came to fit the windows last day August/22 sliding sash twice the depth of usual upvc windows.

Two windows with upper sliding panes were wrong, they agreed to sort it, they did.. but all the windows should have been fitted set back, because of the depth,

in other words the inner surround for windows should have been cut in to allow the windows to "sit in" properly, the front windows 5 in total are fitted staggered, fitted different depths.. two back windows are not central and have no sills, outer layer of brickwork left open to elements.. old windows had upvc cills. 

Thank you

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Quote from company 1. is £6,720.00 whome I shall go with its the lowest I could get.

Quote from another company £11,051.00 that was way to much for me.

Hope I have answered everything, thanks again.

[BankFodder]

I'm not sure that you have told us the original price which you agreed to paying ColdSeal. In other words, we have no idea how much they say that you still have them because you don't seem to have told us.

The quote from company one at £6720 – is that for removing the present installation and replacing it with something? Is the work contemplated in the quotation sufficient to treat you strategy position that you should have arranged if your original agreement had been carried out correctly?

I understand that you instructed your own surveyor. What was the opinion that surveyor? How long is their report?




 

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Hi, sorry, the original price was £5,700.00, I have paid, £1,425.00 of that leaving £4,275.00 to pay..

The company that I would go with is £6,720.00, that is to remove and replace like for like,( except the kitchen, a bottom opener). and leave their windows safely stacked in my back yard until they get picked up.

The surveyors report is pretty thorough, I will put up a summary.

Thank you for your time

[BankFodder]

First of all, I hope you will appreciate how much easier it would be for us all if you answer the questions first time.

Secondly, we don't want a summary of the report. Would like the whole thing – in PDF format. I asked you how many pages it was but you haven't answered.

 

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It is 37 pages

3

Kitchen Window
The kitchen window has blocked drain holes with pooling water inside. The draught seals are not correctly fitted and block
the drain holes. This window proved impossible to lift by the author of this report. It is excessively wide and heavy and the
rear from the edge of the worktop by the sink to the mid rail is 148cm. This window therefore could only be opened by two
people on a step ladder. This window therefore is not of merchantable quality and should never have been fitted because it
is impossible to use safely. An alternative design should be proposed.
CONCLUSION
I am satisfied that the frames are of good quality, however the installation appears to be at fault. The excessive gaps leave
draughts which is not appropriate for double glazing and defects the purpose of the installation. This needs to be corrected
now.
The installation has inconsistent set back from the outer face of the wall. I appreciate the walls are not quite straight however
the windows are obviously out of alignment and look odd in comparison to the windows of the adjacent properties. The fault
lies in the opening not being cut back sufficiently to allow these quite deep frames to sit in the openings to provide a consistent
rebate to each elevation. They need to be taken out and adjusted to achieve this goal.
The rear windows have sills that need to project beyond the wall to disburse rainwater. New sills therefore need to be fitted
to these windows and the loose bricks to the openings on either side of the rear left bedroom window need to be repaired.
The rear windows also need to be adjusted so that they sit in the centre of the openings without the need for additional
beading to one side to provide a seal. The windows either need to be replaced or reset to achieve this goal.
The kitchen window is unfit for purpose. It cannot be opened. Two people are needed with some strength and power to lift
the bottom casement. Its positioning over the sink units is an impractical location. You should replace it with an outward
opening window that is more manageable to handle by a reasonably fit adult.
I hope these observations are of use and assist you in your negotiations with the installers.
Should you require any further information or assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards
Yours sincerely

above is conclusion, thank you

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Its saying the file is to large, will work out how to do it, thanks

[BankFodder]

Okay, if there is a quoted summary and not your own summary then that is fine.

If there is some other conclusion then post it up here but we want to see the surveyors words please

[BankFodder]

In fact that's fine. It seems to be conclusive.

Has the quotation for the work you received addressed specifically the findings of the report?

Did you let the Coldeseal suppliers know in advance that you are getting this report?
Has Coldeseal seen this report and have you given them an opportunity to comment or have they commented?

You say that you asked them several times to carry out some kind of inspection. Can you tell us if that was advising, how many times and did you get a response from them.

Finally, they are threatening legal action. In the event that they don't take legal action, would you be prepared to take your own legal action to recover all of your outlay including the cost of undoing their installation and replacing it

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Getting them to reply to emails was not easy thats when I got checkatrade involved, as I was going to leave a negative review..

No responce by email, but when I went throught the findings on the phone with Ben,  and invited him round to go through it with me, thats when he offered the refund, but declined my invite to come to the house.

I have emailed (attached)the report to them.

Yes the new company have read the report and will carry out work as advised.

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	Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 11:28 AM
To: Coldseal Eco Upgrades <[email protected]>
Dear Mr Dignam   My complaints have gone back as 31st August, the date of fitting,  the window order was wrong and as you are aware there are other problems with the windows, draughts in all windows, manufacturer or fitting issues? also the front room downstairs window  protrude beyond the stone lintel outside, and draughts, also the inside cill over hangs the radiator, (the old one undrneath does not)??? the windows were not fitted set back as I was lead to believe, I have a text message to confirm from Lorraine.   I did ask you come out to check the windows, but you declined.   Andy was out in November,  and said back windows will be replaced, front upstairs windows need sliding panes replaced, and all other windows adjusted,I have not heard anything since. I am concerned that all windows will need replacing.   I have given you more than reasonable time to resolve these issues.   Please confirm within seven days what you intend to do to resolve these issues, in writing please, an email will be fine, no calls, thank you.     Regards

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Quote

 

	Thu, May 18, 2023 at 5:08 PM
To: Coldseal Eco Upgrades <[email protected]>
Hi Ben   I have had a surveyor out to check the windows fitted by your company. The cost was £360.00.   If you wish to discuss the contents within the next week, please contact me. The report will remain in my possesion in case I need to take further action.   Regards

 

Quote

 

	Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 12:39 PM
To: Coldseal Eco Upgrades <[email protected]>
Hi Mr Degnan Could I ask if you check the windows, after fitting? or is it possible please.   Regards

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Okay. To recap:

They have had a copy of the surveyor's report and they haven't commented.
They have had copies of each quotation – and they haven't responded or commented.

You've hinted at further action – but that was back in May. What action you have in mind and why didn't you go ahead?

Do you have the funds now to carry on with the remedial work and then recover the money later?

Also I recall that somewhere in the exchange he referred to a review that you had placed somewhere and wanted you to remove it. Where was the review and have you removed it?

[bittersweet]

I was hoping that Ben would call round and go through the report with me and no further action would be needed, I am not in a position to go ahead with the work at present, as would need to be 100% sure I was going to get the money back, as you can see the quote I am going with is higher anyway so therefore have to find extra money, so the deposit will make a difference, thank you again for taking the time and patience in going through this with me.