Loss of power and MPG after repair work, dealer denies problem - next steps??

[BankFodder]

Any independent inspection will suffice but you should let the other side know before the inspection and so that they have ample opportunity to comment and to so to object if they want

[BankFodder]

By their failure to respond to the statutory request for disclosure,

how do you think you suffered?

Can you identify stress or distress as a result?

If we make a claim for failure to make their statutory disclosure then you will need to identify something and then put a figure to it – even if it is only 50 quid

[evilsheep]

I finally received a response to the SAR on 9th November (I received an automated email from Sytner's online portal).

The response refers to my SAR "received on 20th October", which is after I emailed the dealership manager to complain that my SAR hadn't been fulfilled. @BankFodder you mentioned 'cascading rules' previously, suggesting that my template SAR should have been forwarded, whereas Sytner MINI maintained that as they directed me to complete a request via their online portal, that was an adequate response. What are these cascading rules? And are they right to claim that my SAR letter wasn't a valid request?

I've received all voice recordings and emails communications between myself and Sytner. In amongst the email data was a rogue email referring to another customer (with a similar name), which includes their email, mobile number, details about the car they wanted to part-exchange and the car they were interested in purchasing from email. I'm assuming this is a GDPR breach (and further proof of their incompetence). What should I do about this?

With regards to my car, the garage it's currently at are still yet to discover what's caused the problem and can only recommend replacing component parts until the car responds. I'm now at a situation where I'd have to spend another £1500 (on top of the c.£5k already spent, on a car with a book price of under £3k) and even then not be guaranteed that the car would work. Also, bearing in mind that this is a car that passed an MOT with no advisories and was working perfectly (aside from needing chains replacing) until it was taken to Sytner Mini.

As this is affecting my health now, I'm almost at the end of road. If I knew that this fight would at least compensate me for money spent it would feel more hopeful, but as the car has still not been definitely diagnosed I don't know what to do.

[evilsheep]

Just bumping this thread once more in case there's any further advice. I'm losing work now due to being self-employed (I'd usually be very busy over the Christmas season) and living in an area where public transport isn't always available, so the situation is deteriorating fast.

[evilsheep]

I've sent a final email to the garage now saying I'll be involving the ICO and Motor Ombudsman if I don't receive a response.

I've yet again outlined the timeframe, the evidence that they've failed to repair the car correctly, the garage it's currently at have agreed to confirm all of this if requested by the main dealer, and enclosed info from the SAR that prove they've sent me someone else's details (I've redacted the details though to avoid further GDPR breach risk).

They've asked for 14 days to response.

Meanwhile, I'm still without a car, still paying for insurance, have lost several hundred pounds in work the past few weeks that I've been unable to do with no car, and have no finances to buy a replacement car.

Things aren't looking good.

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, evilsheep said:

I'll be involving the ICO and Motor Ombudsman

chocolate teapots.

why are you not sending a letter of claim

then raising a court claim on day 15?

should of done this last october IMHO.

 

[evilsheep]

What would I include in my letter of claim?

Is this the claim that BankFodder mentioned in post #27?

At this point I'm still in a position whereby the main dealer does not acknowledge that there is anything wrong with the vehicle, I imagine they would dispute any claim. I'm happy to follow any advice at this point though.

The dealership have partially responded to my email sent last week.

The dealership manager stated that they require 14 days (specifically that they will respond by 25th December) to my specific complaints regarding work carried out on the vehicle. I had suggested that they contact the second garage for further evidence/information on the poor work (the garage suggested this) if needed, but as far as I'm aware they've yet to do this.

Today I've also received a response From the UK complaints department of this dealership regarding my SAR complaint. They're trying to claim that my original SAR (sent using the template from this site) requested information on the vehicle, which is why they didn't response. This is patently untrue of course, I've replied to them stating this.

They also state that the GDPR breach in the email (the other customers' details sent to me) was redacted, so presented no risk. It was however me who redacted the information when I sent it to them as evidence (and I stated this in the initial email), so I've clarified that point to.

Is it usual for huge international companies such as this to be so inept? (BMW Customer Services is overseeing this complaint it seems, as they own Mini).

 

[dx100uk]

no post 27 is regarding the SAR failure not the car ...........

[evilsheep]

I didn't expect it to get to this stage.

I've received another reply from Sytner saying that they don't raise jobcards for all visits, so have no data on some of the work done on the car as some people have left the business. They have no record of when it was first returned as they don't store data on diagnostic visits (again, employees have left the business), and despite me having audio recordings (SAR) of the phonecalls I made to Sytner, as this is a centralised call centre the information wasn't necessarily passed to Sytner.

I attached evidence of a major oil leak definitely caused by Sytner's failure, and the managed studiously failed to address this in the email, but instead stated that I had not provided any evidence of poor workmanship. Does this belligerence suggest that Sytner believes they have no case to answer? Or are they just bullishly trying to deter me from further action.

The manager has informed me that I have two choices at this point: that I return it to Sytner where they will offer 2 hours of free diagnosis time ('goodwill'), and if they find any problems caused by them they will repair free of charge, otherwise they will quote for repairs. Or apparently I can refer the case to the National Conciliation Service, despite the managed not being able to see "any evidence provided that Sytner have completed work at an unacceptable standard"

Do I now need to return it to them as they've offered to examine the car (again) before proceeding with any claim?

Also, as I paid partially with credit card, should I raise a Section 75 claim? I'm losing a lot of work due to lack of transport and can't afford to buy another vehicle, so I'm trapped in a spiral.

Edited December 26, 2023 by evilsheep

[BankFodder]

Sorry but I have been out of the loop for a considerable period of time.

What is the cost of fixing the problem and have you identified a garage which will do it to a satisfactory quality?

All of their stuff about not keeping records etc is a load of rubbish and even if it is true it will undermine their credibility. You only have to show on a balance of probability that they probably didn't do it right.

By demonstrating that the record keeping is incompetent, and also the rest of the circumstances it is most likely that a judge would accept that they had fitted the chain incorrectly 

[evilsheep]

Part of the problem in resolving this is that the garage who have confirmed the problems with the car cannot confirm the precise problem. It seems the only conclusive way of proving the problems were caused by the chain work is for them to redo the entire job, which I can't afford (it's c. 2 days of labour, at a cost of around £2k).

I'm very surprised that a huge national dealership such as Sytner have reacted in this way. The garage where the car currently is is a mere 5 miles away, and is the top recommended garage in the region for my brand of car (so they have a very good reputation), so I'm also a bit disappointed that they haven't confirmed the exact problem.

As Sytner have offered 2 hours of 'goodwill' labour to diagnose a problem, even if they did discover what they did wrong, I can't say I trust their mechanics to rectify it. I've seen photos of the state of the car when the cam cover wasn't replaced properly, and I cannot see how they failed to spot this on the previous returns to them.

So, where I am now - they can't provide evidence of diagnostics carried out (staff leaving the company/jobcards not being compulsory); they're saying I haven't provided evidence of poor work on their part (untrue, even if I haven't supposedly given proof of their work causing the poor performance of the car, I've certainly provided proof of the work not being carried out with due care); they're saying my only options are to return the car to them for 2 hours of diagnostics or use the National Conciliation service.

On a side note, I'm still waiting for them to address the data protection/SAR response issues separately (that's gone to their UK offices). That team asked me to provide a photocopy of pages 2 and 3 of my V5C. When I asked why they needed this at this point when I've not been asked to provide ID at any point previously, I had this response:

"BMW UK have a legitimate interest in obtaining information from your V5C to ensure we’re speaking to the correct person – it forms part of our Data Protection (GDPR) checks.
 
In requesting a copy of your V5C your data will be kept on your file, which isn’t accessible to anyone outside of the company. We have strict policies in place when it comes to Data Protection, to ensure all customer information is stored in a secure environment.
 
Without being presented with the document, we’re restricted on the information we’re able to provide our customers.

Once we’ve received this, I’ll be in a better position to help you.

The garage has confirmed that the problems with the vehicle were caused by the timing chain work, but they can't confirm exactly what part of the work caused it due to so many component parts being removed in order to replace the chain. For example, at least one of the injectors shows damage, a filter was damaged, the EGR was clogged (there are other things too).

[BankFodder]

I think your position now is that you're going to have to find the money to have the work carried out by an independent garage and the repair implemented and then recover the outlay by court action.

I know that you say you don't have money for this but that is something that you again have to deal with if you want to go forward. At the moment you have a car which doesn't work properly.

If you decide to take this route then you should draft a letter to the first garage and let them know that this is what you are doing and that once the cause of the fault is fully confirmed and attribute it to them – as you have always said – and once the fault is rectified, that you will be seeking reimbursement from them.

 

Also, the longer you let this go, the more difficult it is going to be to establish your position

I'm not sure what else to suggest

[evilsheep]

Unfortunately, I might be at brick wall here then. I'm not earning enough to cover food and bills at present and have no credit remaining.

In the meantime, I have continued to follow up the complaint to BMW/Mini directly

have finally found and sent the V5C which will hopefully expedite their response,

received a further response from the main dealer problem garage who are refusing to accept the evidence I've provided (as the other garage is not an authorised Mini aftersales centre - ridiculous), 

they have offered a further 2 hour diagnostic (as a 'goodwill' gesture).

I am yet to book it in, as I don't trust that they will diagnose, repair nor accept any problem given their attitude up until now.