pmahonc V Abbey

[pmahonc]

You have to be careful here, section 13.6 only applies i think to the default notice on your credit file. it doesn't apply to paying off the overdraft. i got away with the debt collectors because i had already started action against the abbey before they handed it over. i'll still have to pay it off once the actions settled, wether i win or lose makes no difference. i'd continue paying it if possible {leaves you more out of the refund}, If money is tight you could explain to them and try renegotiating for lesser payments over a longer period.

[pmahonc]

sorry i forgot to put that the message above was for adam1976brown

 

regards pmahonc

[adam1976brown]

i have a letter i already had wrote before i saw ur thread on this but not posted it..... it just stated that i had filed a claim requesting charges back and that i hoped to stop all activity on this account untill settled.. and i will offer to pay up in full this outstanding sum of my overdraft wether i win or lose ( no chance of the latter )..too much????

[pmahonc]

I would just let them know that you will stop all activity on this account and arrange to pay it off in installments, offer them what you can reasonably afford and can keep to, i dont think that you need to mention that you are claiming your charges back. Also if you did tell them that you were going to pay them off in full they would hold you to it, whereas this way you are paying it off and you still have money for emergencies. There is also the possibility to make mistakes and lose a claim.

Try moneysavingexpert.com martin lewis has a few good ideas about how to deal with overdrafts while claiming your charges back.

 

Have you opened a parachute account?

 

Hope this helps

 

pmahonc

[pmahonc]

I did it again the above message is for adam1976brown

 

pmahonc

[Mad Nick]

pmahonc, did you know you can edit your posts - I find it invaluable for correcting my own schoolboy errors which I invariably spot 30secs after I posted !! And if you don't fill in the reason for the edit, no-one will ever know. The Edit button is underneath your post on the RH side. Regards, Mad Nick

[pmahonc]

Little bit of an update. Faxed allen betts last friday {23rd feb} and pointed out about the default and told them they have seven days to remove it like mad nick suggested, rang them today to see if they had received it and they said no could i resend it which i did, i then rang them again a little while later and they said they had received it and it would take 48 hours to go through adminstration, to which i replied that's ok the deadline runs out in 48hours. When i got home i checked with experian and all references to Abbey have been removed, so a result there then, wonder if they have had a change of heart about the way they are dealing with people, Probably not.

 

Paul

[Mad Nick]

pmahonc, nice one, well done. Regards, Mad Nick

[ladybird17]

pmahonc - might be an idea if you go back & edit your post #20 - it has your name on it. (You may be quite happy to identify yourself, and if so, ignore this post!)

[pmahonc]

Thanks Ladybird17 i've removed my surname.

Just checked with experian but the default is still there on their system, i'll give it a couple of days as they might be a bit slower at adjusting things than equifax.

 

Paul

[pmahonc]

Just wondering with court hearings being assigned after 21st April, what will happen to ongoing claims that are already in the court circuit if the oft states that a fair charge is say £12. will we all have to adjust our court cases to reflect this or do we carry on regardless { good song that} with claiming the full old value.

[pmahonc]

Just received a copy of abbey's defense, Is there any reason i can't scan it and post it here.

 

pmahonc

[Lula]

No reason at all, just take out all identifiers LOL is it any different from all the others?

[pmahonc]

I dare say it's the same as all the others, although i've looked through a few threads all i seem to come across are comments of "same as all the others" or references to particular parts.

personally i don't think there's much in the defence to be worried about although 9. looks interesting.

Claim No: 7 GL 00308

IN THE GLOUCESTER COUNTY COURT

BETWEEN:

Claimant

- and -

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

Defendant

DEFENCE

1. Save as is specifically admitted in this Defence, the Defendant denies each and every allegation set out in the Particulars of Claim.

2. It is admitted that the Claimant has a current bank account with the Defendant, account number 43498465 (the "Account").

3. At all times the Account has been subject to the applicable terms and conditions ("Conditions"), which form part of the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant and to which the Claimant agreed when the Claimant opened the Account. The Defendant will refer at trial to the full Conditions but for the purposes of this Defence will refer to the following extracts:

(1) "You can apply for an overdraft on your Account. If we give you an overdraft we will tell you your limit and the interest rate applicable."

(2) "An unauthorised overdraft occurs if without our agreement you overdraw your Account or exceed the limit of an overdraft which we have agreed."

(3) "If you have an unauthorised overdraft, you will be charged fees as set out in our Tariff of Charges or specified to you and these may include fees for transactions we are unable to process due to lack of available funds in your Account."

4. Throughout the period that he has had the Account, the Claimant received a number of copies of the Conditions and of the said Tariff of Charges as they were amended and updated (though there has been no material amendment to the Conditions extracted in paragraphs 3(1), (2) and (3) above).

5. Any overdraft facility on the Account was (and is) subject to the Conditions.

6. The Claimant has overdrawn or exceeded authorised overdraft limits on the Account on a number of separate occasions, full details of which will be provided on disclosure. Therefore by virtue of the Conditions referred to in paragraph 3 above such overdrawing was unauthorised and in breach of contract and the Claimant became liable to pay fees to the Defendant in accordance with its Tariff of Charges applicable at the relevant time. In accordance with the Conditions, such fees were debited to the Account.

7. In view of the facts and matters referred to in paragraphs 3, 4, 5 and 6 above, the Defendant denies that the amount of £11233.64 or any other, amount was unlawfully debited to the Account and the Claimant's claim for the repayment of that amount is therefore denied. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to claim interest in the sum claimed of £4772.41 or at all.

8. The Claimant's contention that the said fees are unenforceable and/or are "penalty charges" is denied. The fees reflect and are proportionate to the Defendant's administrative expenses incurred due to the Claimant's breach of contract and are a genuine pre-estimate of the damage suffered by the Defendant.

9. Further or in the alternative, even if the said fees are not proportionate to the Defendant's administrative expenses incurred (which is denied), the Claimant remains liable to pay such fees as

may be found to be proportionate and the Claimant is not entitled to claim repayment of the full amount of each charge made to the Account.

10. No admissions are made as to the amounts claimed by the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this defence are true.

I am duly authorised by the Defendant to sign this statement.

of Abbey National plc

signed pp . position or office held: Legal Officer

Date: 2 March 2007

pmahonc

[pmahonc]

One thing i did find funny was that it was addressed to Gloucester, London, NW1 3AN, They obviously think Gloucester is in London and has the same post code as their head office. {hmmm are they getting flustered i wonder}.

 

pmahonc

[pmahonc]

Just a quick question about the AQ, it's section D, obviously i've put my name down but what facts do you put down, is it along the lines of "Bank charges deducted " or something else. Also in the tracts question i've asked for it to be kept in the fast track as i'm going for contractual interest and the claim is over £10,000 and i would imagine that it will take over an hour to sort out.

 

If anybody can help it would be much appreciated.

TIA pmahonc

[webbster]

hi i just recieved a copy of an allocation questionaire from Abbey, as i am taking them to court for my charges, do i just ignore this, it does'nt make sense, i am waiting for my court date. if anybody is in the same position.

 

Paul

[pmahonc]

I think reading the step by step instructions if you've filed your AQ and abbey have filed theirs then its a case of waiting for the courts to get in touch, And while waiting for the court, getting the court bundles ready.

 

pmahonc

[pmahonc]

I was thinking of adding this in addition to section H of my AQ.

 

I would like to draw the courts attention to some actions taken by the Defendant since starting my claim, Namely applying a default notice on the 19th February 2007 with Experian in violation of section 13.6 of the banking code which states

"13.6 We may give information to credit reference agencies

about the personal debts you owe us if:

• you have fallen behind with your payments;

• the amount owed is not in dispute; and

• you have not made proposals we are satisfied with

for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.".

The defendant also handed the account, number xxxxxxx over to a debt collection agency while the account in question is subject to a county court claim against the defendant.

These actions are considered by the claimant as intimidation by the Defendant in the mistaken belief the Claimant will withdraw the claim.

 

perhaps i could then ask that considering the abbeys tactics that judgement be made against them.

 

any views

 

pmahonc

[pmahonc]

bump

[pmahonc]

has anybody got views on post #44 please.

 

Also is it my imagination or is there a lot more defaults being applied by the abbey, when i first joined CAG i only saw a few, now there seems to be new ones popping up everyday. Perhaps this is a new ploy by abbey to intimidate people. Especially as they are being told both by phone and letter that they are breaking the banking code and the data protection act by quite a few people and they still carry on with the default notice. And as for handing it over to a debt collection agency while it's in dispute and not waiting for the dispute to end before they take any action really does go to show how low they will go.

Also would it be a good idea to get a fact sheet posted to inform people what their rights are in respect of the above, and what to do about it. Because how many people know that you can put a notice of correction on the credit file just by simply e-mailling the credit reference agency, which would alleviate some of the effects the notice has.

I mention this because this can have very serious effects on peoples lives, I know having been there.

 

pmahonc

[pmahonc]

I was thinking of posting this to help people out.

 

If your having trouble with the abbey in regards to default notices and debt collectors after you have sent the prelim letter read on.

1. the Default Notice.

In my experience the abbey normally send out a letter stating their intent to post a default notice in 28 Days time. The first thing to do would be to ring them up using the number at the top of the letter, and inform them that they are breaking the banking code section 13.6 which states:-

 

 

13.6

We may give information to credit reference agencies

about the personal debts you owe us if:

• you have fallen behind with your payments;

• the amount owed is not in dispute; and

• you have not made proposals we are satisfied with

for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.

 

They have to give you 28 days notice as per section 13.7 :-

13.7 In these cases, we will give you at least 28 days’ notice

that we plan to give information about the debts you

owe us to credit reference agencies. At the same

time, we will explain to you the role of credit reference

agencies and the effect the information they provide

can have on your ability to get credit.

 

Follow the phone call up with a letter stating what you said on the phone.

The only problem is that if after 28 days they do file the default and you have been following the timeline with the prelim and lba you will in all probability have filed the n1 before the default notice is applied so you can either put a section in the particular of claims in preparation, or pay £65 later to amend the POC.

 

If they ignore this and post a default notice then the next thing to do is send an email to the credit reference agencies stating that you want to post a notice of correction on your credit file this can be upto 200 words.

This should help if any firm looks at your credit file and may alleviate some of its effects.

 

Next make an official complaint with the FSA about the breaking of the banking code.

 

Also send a copy of the letter to Abbey.

 

This should allow you to try an get the court to order the default removed.

 

2. debt Collection Agency.

Step one is don't ignore them, phone them first and state as above that you have a dispute over the account with the abbey and that the abbey should have withheld passing the account over to them till after the dispute is resolved one way or the other, i also quoted the banking code to them as well. Sometimes this does the trick and they will stop annoying you till after the dispute is over. And they probably won't make any requests for payment.

If they don't accept this then tell them you will be back in touch in a couple of days as you will have to prepare a financial statement first bfore being able to make a proposal of payment. they should allow this. Next make up a sheet and list all incomings and outgoings as per a budget {best done on a spreadsheet} this will allow you to see how much you can afford to pay them, Make sure the figure is one you can keep to and then propose that to them and if necessary send them a copy. The advantage to this is that you are reducing the balance and when you win will have more of your claim left over once you clear the remainder of the overdraft. If they accept your payment they won't keep annoying you.

 

what do people think

pnahonc

 

This is only my opinion if in doubt seek professional help.

[Mad Nick]

pmahonc,

has anybody got views on post #44 please.

Words are fine. It's just the AQ, but why not. Regards, Mad Nick

[pmahonc]

Thanks Mad Nick.

 

pmahonc

[pmahonc]

Just received a copy of Abbey's AQ with the following draft order for direction.

Draft Order for Directions

1. The Claimant shall within 28 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and the Court:

a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

If the Claimant fails to comply with his order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

2. The Claim be allocated to the small claims track for hearing not before 30 May 2007.

3. 14 days prior to the allocated hearing date, the Claimant and the Defendant shall file and serve:

a) Copies of all documents (including expert's reports) on which he/it intends to rely at the hearing;

b) Any witness statements must be included in the documents filed and served; and;

c) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

I notice that the acknowledgement of claim and the AQ were signed by "Abbey" the Defendant and not their solicitor, surely the solicitor should sign. I know that in law a company is regarded as a person but in that case shouldn't the person signing be the person in charge of the company ie:- company director or CEO.

pmahonc