UK Car Group/Billing Finance HP - New car with issues

[BankFodder]

Yes please. As my site team colleague above has advised you – we'd all the names – the dealer and the finance company.

Also we need to know if this is a hire purchase loan or some other kind of loan.

Please can you is more detail about the car – make, model, age, mileage, price paid.
Tell us about the faults which occurred and remedial action which apparently been taken by the dealer which is presumably the people who sold it to you.
You have referred to an MOT. Can you tell us about that. Who issued the MOT and when did they issue the MOT

Lots more information please.
If we manage to help you – and we probably will – then you will probably get the inspection money back as well. Plus any other expenses which have been reasonably incurred as a result of this.

Come on – you've been here since 2010. We have helped you in lots of other ways – you know that we need information. We can't play guessing games

[BankFodder]

I think it would be a good idea to get an independent inspection. This may cost you money but you will recover it.

Maybe an AA or an RAC inspection will be sufficient.

I understand that it is driveable although difficulty.

I suggest that you put the inspection in hand. Write the dealer and to the finance company and tell them that you are putting an independent inspection in hand. That the fee will be £XXX and that as soon as the inspection confirms the faults, you will be issuing proceedings against the finance company as it is a hire purchase agreement and they are responsible.

Post the draft letter here. I think you may as well be abrupt and assertive.

Start arranging the inspection

[BankFodder]

Get your own independent inspection done as well.

It doesn't matter if they do one and in fact if there are discrepancies in the result, that will be interesting.

Organise your RAC inspection as quickly as possible – but having given notice to the finance company and to the dealer.

Make it clear to them that you don't consider that their own inspection is independent. You are commissioning your own inspection first and they can treat their one as corroboration if they want.

[BankFodder]

On 26/07/2023 at 10:20, stuggling said:

We informed them in morning yesterday about the report and this is their  response 

At MOT it was just mentioned to them and I was under impression sorted 

I'm under impression any issues within first 6 months was there at time of purchase car, I can not afford to lose more money. 

Please could you provide evidence that the concerns were raised to the supplying garage, and they had attempted repairs? The MOT completed at the time of inception lists no advisories or mention of the said concerns

In regard to the report obtained from Vauxhall it does not confirm liability for the issues being present or developing at or prior to finance inception. If the supplying garage were to dispute liability, we would be required to proceed with the independent inspection.

The option to repair is available to the supplying garage, and we can enquire if local repairs could be considered, but these cannot be enforced.  

Sorry but I'm not clear what this post is about. Is part of it a message from somebody to somebody?

I'm afraid it doesn't make sense until you identify which parts are your text and which parts are a message and who sent the message to whom.

[BankFodder]

How many miles have you done on the car since you bought it?

How far from you is the dealer which sold in the car?

Where is your closest independent MOT station – that you can trust for a good quality inspection?

[BankFodder]

Clearly the MOT is becoming rather an issue.
I understand that the MOT was carried out by the very people who sold you the car – hardly a disinterested party.

I suggest that you get the car round to your local independent MOT station. Tell them that you want a really hard/stringent MOT done and also report generally on the condition of the car.

Once you get that – also if you can get the RAC inspection done – then I think we are ready to go

[BankFodder]

What was the date of the last MOT and what is the mileage you have done since then

[BankFodder]

When that case you need to get your independent inspection and get them also to comment on the roadworthiness of the vehicle and whether they believe that it will be in roadworthy in April when you got the new MOT.
In other words, the point is to show that the MOT was not valid.

I have to say that I think you've been led around by the nose and I think that you have allowed it to happen.

Get the independent inspection as quickly as possible

 

And I'm making the above comments bearing in mind particularly that you've been there since 2010.
You really should have reacted immediately this happened and come to us for advice. Instead you played out and played out then gradually sacrificed most of the advantages that you might have had.
Now we are going to do a rescue job

[BankFodder]

Okay, let us know the result.  Once you get the report, we will help you begin your claim.

Your chance of success are extremely high – better than 95%. I expect that once the finance company understand that you are now taking control, they will most likely put their hands up and you will be able to get your money back plus expenses



 

[BankFodder]

Do I understand that you have never had an independent report carried out on this car?

Your posts are rather abbreviated and it is difficult to follow – but I understand that you don't have the car any more and then he is with the dealer who sold it to you. Is this correct?

Can you remind us – is this a hire purchase agreement?

Have you got a definitive list of the faults? If so please can you list them here in a bullet pointed fashion

[BankFodder]

I know this is going to be a nuisance – but this thread has become so fragmented I've lost track.

It will be most helpful if you would start a new thread.

Use a bullet pointed chronology.

On XXX date – purchased vehicle model/type/price – from XXX company who are located XXX miles away from you.
You purchased the car online – or you went to see it and purchased it on site
used finance from XXX finance company and it was a hire purchase
it had a new MOT – or it didn't – I'm not sure which it is – I've lost track
XXX date the car started demonstrate certain defects – itemise the defects.

Reported this to the garage on XXX date – and they said blah blah blah

reported it to the finance company on XXX date – and they said blah blah blah

Inspections which have been carried out

One
two
three
where is the car now?

You get the picture.

Let's have a bullet pointed summary of the situation from beginning to now. We've been here a long time – you know what we want – all in one go.

I'm going to close this thread. Let's start another one clean and let's get a move on.

As a summary, you are entitled have a car in satisfactory condition and remain that way for a reasonable period of time. It doesn't matter whether the faults where there when you bought the car or whether they developed later as long as they were not created by some misuse or abuse of the items.
If they simply materialised then they were probably latent faults.

Start a new thread and keep the narrative down to a bare minimum please.

[BankFodder]

Have you identified the garage? If you have I may have missed it.

Who did the MOT? What date?

It's not clear how many miles you have done on it since you bought it.

It's not clear whether you have had your own independent inspection done.

Also, you have apparently been told not to contact the garage which sold you the car – is this correct? Why are you are obeying them?

 

[BankFodder]

Sorry I don't understand this:

3 minutes ago, stuggling said:

Garage don't respond to us anyhow they just said on phone when taking cat oh it's how you drive it. 

 

Also I don't understand this:

5 minutes ago, stuggling said:

We had vauxhall do inspection we went to get RAC but they sent email to say dealer has agreed to repair it. 

I'm trying to cut to the chase on this and not go back into the fragmented style of discussion before.

It will be helpful if you could respond in complete structured and clear sentences. You could try, for instance, using definite articles such as "the" and indefinite articles such as "a" and "an" – and that might be a good start.

Rather in the way that I'm communicating with you so that you understand what I am saying.

[BankFodder]

So you haven't had an independent inspection – even though we asked you to do it?

What is the inspection you had with the Vauxhall dealership? Was that independent?

And I understand that you don't even have possession of the car – the dealership has it and they won't tell you where it is and you have been told not to contact them anyway by the finance company. Is this correct?

How long have you not had the car?

How many weeks/months have you not been able to use it?

[BankFodder]

Okay, I'm going to ask you lots more questions so don't be disparaged. I'm still trying to understand the complete picture.

However I can tell you that if you want to get this sorted out then you will need to issue a claim against the finance company because they are responsible under the hire purchase agreement. We may well issue the claim also against the dealers as second defendants.

All this business about the faults needing to be there at the time of sale is a load of rubbish.

This requirement only exists if you are trying to exercise your rights under the 30 day rule and the six-month rules contained in the recent consumer rights act 2015.

At the end of the day, you are entitled to purchase a car for £7000 which is of satisfactory quality and remains that way for a reasonable period of time.

This clearly hasn't happened. The dealer and the finance company are in breach.

One sad thing here is that you appear to have ceded control to them. They are bossing you around and leading you by the nose and you seem to follow. We have to stop this. You need a change of mindset.

So what I understand is that on 10 April you purchased a vehicle. You haven't said in this then how much you paid for it – but I have an impression it was about £7000. Why on earth you haven't told us the price in this thread I have no idea. This is such basic information.
It was sold with a new MOT – but it turned out that it didn't have a new MOT and you had to go back and get one a few days after the purchase.
Five days after the date of purchase the car started to manifest problems. Despite this you did nothing about asserting your rights under the consumer rights act because you could have returned the car for a refund at that point.
For some reason rather the finance company instructed you not contact the dealer – and you obeyed!
You reported the defects to the finance company on 25 May – so over a month after purchase.
The finance company ask you why you didn't report it earlier – totally irrelevant and outrageous for them to ask this.
They then required you to carry out an inspection at your own expense – and you went along with it and paid £110! What date was this? Where is the report? Who did the report?
Then you received an email – from who?
The garage said that they would repair the defects – and then change their mind and said they were simply having a look at it. What date?
The garage has now been in possession of the car for four weeks. So what happens to the car between 25 May and/?
Have you been driving it? What might have you done in total? How many days/weeks have you had the use of the vehicle?
The car has been subject to various inspections but so far as I can tell, it may only be the Vauxhall inspection which is independent – if at all. Where is the report?

I know that you have this that some defects above but I don't understand them all. What is DFS, for example.

Please list up the defects again bullet pointed.

Separately, this stop additional expenses to which you been put such as cancel holiday et cetera.

I'm trying to eventually get this in a structured way that not only will I understand that a court will understand. A court isn't going understand all this garble so we need to get it sorted out.

Finally, are you prepared to take a legal action on this? It will be a small claim. I'm not sure how much it would cost. The claim – may be about 250 or 300 quid. If it goes to hearing then it could cost an additional 300 quid. You have to check the County Court website for court fees.

Once you win – as you surely will – you will get this money back.

Hopefully, once they realise that you mean business and they have received the court papers, they will start to take you seriously but so far they have formed the impression that they can give you the runaround and that you are a pushover.

We need to change this.

If the car is completely fixed – do you want to keep it?

Don't forget, that if you decide that you don't want the car, you will then be left with the problem of getting another car with all the hassle that that entails.

If we can get this car completely fixed and MOT independently and inspected independently, it might be your best bet.

I'd like you to look at all of this very carefully. I'd like you to react to the post I make quickly because it's gone far too long.

I'm trying to help you regain control of this problem because frankly the story is ridiculous and I'm not too sure why it has been allowed to go on so long – especially dealing with the company which now won't even give you access to your own vehicle.



 

[BankFodder]

Thanks for this.

I'm afraid that the way that you respond to my questions doesn't clarify things as much as they could.

It would be more helpful in future if you would simply not repeat my questions – but simply give the answers. Especially as you don't introduce paragraph returns anything to separate my questions from the answers.

You really haven't told me how many days you have used the car have bought it. We need to know this please. If and when this goes to court you will need to have these figures.
I would simply like a number – but you probably need to produce a detailed log so you will need to go back over your appointments et cetera.

You say that you booked an inspection but this was cancelled by the garage you were using. Why? Why did they cancel it?

 

• You bought the car for £7390 10th of April.
• It manifested faults. But you don't say when they started.
• It was sold with a new MOT but in fact didn't have one and you had to go back for it. What expenses were involved in that?
• You eventually decided to report the defects to the finance company on 25 May. Do you have evidence of this?
• Finance company required you to carry out an inspection at your own expense – £110. You have evidence that they required this?
• The inspection was booked for June and then was cancelled by the garage – but you don't say why. Why aren't you filling in these little details?
• You booked a second inspection with Vauxhall which apparently was not scheduled until end of July. We don't have a copy of that report – why not?
• Then suddenly you get an email that the garage is prepared to carry out the repairs – but you don't say when this email was sent to you. Why not? Have you still got the email?
• Also, how come the garage is suddenly prepared to carry out repairs? Have they seen the report? What's it all about? Why haven't you explained?
• Then suddenly the garage – which I presume is the dealer garage – take the car at the end of August – presumably for repairs and then suddenly contact you and say that they have changed their mind and they're not going to carry out repairs they are simply going to carry out another inspection. Do you have written evidence of this?
• The garage has been in possession of the car since 22 August and is refusing to return it to you and apparently won't even tell you where it is. You have written evidence of this?
• Apparently the garage has carried out an inspection and there is a report – but they have refused to disclose it to you. You have written evidence of this?

You probably think that the way questioning you is difficult and probably unpleasant. We have to get to the bottom of this. Please imagine that you are telling the story to some friends of yours in a pub.
If you gave them the story as you have given it to us, your friends would walk out the part and not knowing anything or only understanding a little bit.
We need the whole story. I need to know all the little details.

We can help you. You have been very badly treated by the garage and by the finance company and we will deal with them and get your money back and your expenses as long as you are prepared to engage with us properly.

This means that you give us all the details and try to anticipate what is needed rather than leaving us in a position where we have to drag details out of you like pulling teeth.

Please can you deal with the questions above. Don't repeat the questions – simply give whole sentences and any other little details that might be useful.

Please present your answers in well spaced paragraphs so that it is all clear to understand.

I anticipate there will be writing a letter to the garage and to the finance company giving them a very few days to release the vehicle to you.
We will be threatening the finance company with an action under the FCA COBS rules which require them to treat you fairly and to communicate with you fairly – which they clearly haven't been doing.
We will also threatening them with an action for breach of contract. When you have somebody for breach of contract if you can show that there has been a fundamental breach which effectively means that you have been deprived of substantially the whole benefit of the contract then you can have the contract rescinded – which means cancelled.

You haven't told us how many days you have have had. You are simply paying guessing games with us again. We need the figure but it certainly sounds to me as if since the purchase of the vehicle on 10 April you have had very little use of it and that you have been deprived of substantially the whole benefit of the contract and that as a basis for suing the finance company and demanding rescission of the contract.

Please will you help us to help you. Stop making it hard work. We are meant to be on the same side after all.

 

[BankFodder]

Yes, we do need documents in multipage single file please.
Having to rummage through loads of documents when even the naming convention is not quite clear is very unhelpful. Once again it leads to a fragmented understanding and lots of extra time.

Please post entire documents in a single file – PDF. Multipage single file.

 

9 hours ago, stuggling said:

Ok lets try this way. 

I purchased a Vauxhall Cascada on 10 April 2023, it was £7390 with 44390 on the clock at time of purchase, We was told it had a Full year MOT. We found on 13/04/2023 that it had not got a years MOT and was due to expire in July 2023, We contacted the Garage who arranged for the following day (14/04/23), when asked were this was due to distance it was 30miles away, I had to take time off work to do this, it was an 60 mile all round trip. At the time of MOT I mentioned that the clutch felt a bit lose and was not hitting gears well, they passed it and said tighten the clutch, (it did feel different) 

 

In May after it being used for a total of 35 days (from April 10th to August 21st) mainly on motorway for work and medical appointments, a warning light appeared on the engine for DPF and to keep driving it till clear, this was done and the light went off, but about 23rd May we noticed it was getting very hot at the back of car and the smell of burning and the DPF light came on again, We contacted the Dealer who said to deal with ZUTO or the finance as they only do a 30 day warranty and it was out of the times, so we emailed Billing on 25th May and reported the issues. 

Billing replied asking for evidence of the issues and if we had it inspected, we had said no but they sent an email asking for us to do this, it was originally booked in for June 12th, the garage cancelled as no longer dealt with Vauxhall cars, we tried to get them to look but they did not have the Vauxhall digonaistic for this so was booked with Vauxhall for 25th July. 

We informed Billing that it would cost us £110 and then a taxi to and from the place was £38, they did not respond to these costs.  We got the report and the following issues were found: 

• DPF (Diesel Particular Filter) scans for an over boost, and the sensor out of range 
• Suspension Spring Offside Rear has snapped. 
• Air con unit not working 

We also reported that the stop/start system dose not work. 

 

On August 10th Billing responded saying the Dealer will repair the car,(we do not have the reports from the dealer to say they will fix it, just an email from Billing to say they will)  they Collected it on August 21st and have had it since. in this time they had an email of us to say that we had to cancel an holiday due to not having the car to drive there. 

When they took the car the recovery driver only had me as main contact and when they got the the dealers yard it was closed, I called the dealer who said they had finished early at 4.30pm and that they were not going back to the yard and there was nothing they could do, the dealer then asked about the mileage and what the issues were, I explained about the DPF and he said oh it's properly how you drive it, I did not make a comment on this, and asked for a date it would be fixed and returned, he then said they he is not fixing it only looking at it and had not date, the recovery people left and  so they called to let me know would deliver again in morning and would remain in a secure overnight yard till then. The next morning, I had several Calls as the dealer was not there at 9am to take the car, and I was informed they would have to leave on side of road. 

on 22nd August we got an email saying not to contact the dealer just Billing finance and Zuto. 

We explained that we needed a date to expect the car back due to medical appointments and the children going back to school, we never and still do not have a date. 

 

The dealer did there own inspection and found nothing, then sent to there garage and they found nothing (Billing never got any reports for this and have emailed over stating this) so Billing on the 14/09/2023 they had an independent company IVIS come and to a report on the car, who found the same issues as we had reported. 

Billing are saying they are not responsible as they say the faults were not there at time of purchase and they will only contribute  towards the costs and are awaiting a garage (again no name mentioned though we have asked) to give them a quote. 

In the mean time i have informed them on medical appointments that have been rearranged, taxi fair for a disabled child to get to school, and now having to pay another insurance for my parents car. 

 

I will upload reports on separate post.  we have emails of all conversations we do not call billing or zuto it is is all emails, so yes evidence to it all,  its alot, but will do my best to screen shot etc to send over, there are over 100 of them to go through.  

We do not know why changed mind on repairs or what has happened. 

 

Finally, we have a post that seems to tell the entire story and in a comprehensible way.
There are a couple of points which are not clear. Who sent the email of 22 August – the dealer or the finance company?
At some point you have told us that somebody declined to tell you where the car was or to give you any answers about when you might get it back. You have and referred to that in your new post. Please can you clarify.

Other than that I think we probably have most of the story.

And to reiterate, please don't post fragmented documents. Post them all in a single PDF. Otherwise it is like receiving a multipage document through the post in several different envelopes – all separately stamped and addressed and you then have to open each one and figure out the order et cetera.

Once again, please help us to help you. What we are asking you is really just very normal

 

Another question occurs to me: have you been advised or instructed either by the dealer or by the finance company not to drive the vehicle?
Do you have evidence?
If you did receive this advice or instruction – when was it?

[BankFodder]

So I gather that they haven't expressly refused to give you back the car and they haven't expressly refused to tell you where it is. You haven't particularly asked and it is simply an understanding that they need to do the report first and the report so far has still not been done. Is this correct?

I appreciate that you have lots of difficulties et cetera going on at home – but I'm afraid this doesn't cut any ice with the dealer, with the finance company – and if and when it goes to court, it won't cut any ice with them.

We are trying to push you but we are on your side. Is probably more difficult at the moment because you don't have any control. Once we help you to get back into control, you will find things much easier and you feel better about it.

If you don't have the car back, what alternatives do you have? Do you have the money now to buy another car? Do you have the money to bring this court action if, say, it amounts to about £750 to bring it. Check the County Court fees to find the exact figure. It's probably a bit less than that. On the basis that you win of course you will get your costs back.

[BankFodder]

4 hours ago, stuggling said:

When I ask for date or return they do not give this over

They have done there own report and we got email Monday saying issues are due to driving it short distance and they will only contribute to repairs amd awaiting a quote for repairs, we asked how our driving causes the issue and they said the reports say and would be used in a court of law

 

So I understand that you have asked for a date for the return of the vehicle and they don't give an answer – is this correct?
How many times have you asked them?

I also understand that they have done their own report and they have said that the issues are caused by the fact that you have been driving the car only for short distances and because of this they will only contribute to repairs and they are waiting for a quotation for repairs. Is this correct?

Aren't they the repair garage themselves? And so shouldn't they be able to give you a quote for repairs immediately?

You have asked them about why your driving is responsible for the issues and they say that the report they have would only be used in a court of law and this is the reason they can't disclose it to you. Is this correct?

 

[BankFodder]

Okay I'm getting the general picture.
We need to start assembling some documentation please.
He said that you've asked them eight times for the date of return. Have you done this in writing? If so, please can you assemble the messages – presumably emails.
One email per page please. We don't want pages of emails repeating the previous messages et cetera et cetera et cetera.
And also their responses.
So what we want is a multipage single file PDF document with your email to them, their email to you, your emails to them, their email to you – et cetera.
We also like to see the message asking why there was no quote and their response – once again the messages one per page – PDF.
Your message asking why they were allowing this when they found no issues.

Your message asking how your driving was responsible for problem and pointed out that IVIS did not inspect the car at point of sale – (which is a very excellent point to make, by the way)

Their message where they repeated the IVIS opinion that you had only use the vehicle for short journeys.

How long will it take you to get all of this please.

Do you have the MOT certificate that they issued – the new one? What is the name of the garage which produced the MOT certificate. How far is it away from the dealer?

[BankFodder]

Aren't we also waiting for the Vauxhall inspection report from you? You did say that you are going to upload that but it doesn't seem to have appeared.

I also asked you to let us know exactly how many days you have use the car. We don't have that information either.

 

Also, when the car is eventually returned to you – if it is returned to you – you must make an immediate note of the mileage and inspect it for any damage that might not have been there when you gave it to the garage.
 

[BankFodder]

Astonishing. Please could you post up the entire email here – using the quote function. It's much easier.

We would like to have the whole lot – including the Department which sent it, the date, reference – everything and whoever signed it.

This is in response to what?

It seems that they are now suggesting that you can collect the car if you want.

 

[BankFodder]

I think we would like to see the actual emails please.

The redaction of your personal details is not important if you aren't bothered.

However, are these 54 pages the emails which I've asked for above or is there more?

At the moment I only want to see the emails which I have asked for above. However I don't want multipage emails quoting the previous email and then the previous email and then the previous email et cetera et cetera.
That way we get multiple copies of the same email – and we need to avoid that for simplicity

[BankFodder]

In that case, produce a document containing only the originals of each email – without all the copies – in date order. Don't worry about redacting it and send it in confidence to our admin email address

 

Put the title of this thread in the subject line

[BankFodder]

Keep it as short as possible and manageable please in good order – good quality scans – no photos. No repetitions.
If this goes to court then you going to need anyway.