New strategy for Allocation Questionnaires

[Glenn UK]

Excellent post Gary,

 

Seems to me that this draft order is an excellent way forward, having been wating since beginning of Nov for allocation it would have been good to have this back then but hey ho.

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Personally i would go with either or if i were to use one of them.

 

Bearing in mind the case mentioned in the kazzaw post has not yet been completed it is probably best not to use it yet.

 

BUt in principle it seems like a good idea to me.

 

JMHO

 

GLenn

[Glenn UK]

I think careful working will be required though! I dont think any judge would appreciate being told how to do his/ her job! LOL

 

I entirely agree.

[Glenn UK]

I put 'witness to the facts of the claim'

 

I think something along those lines is fine,

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Suhari

 

i thought i was going mad until i realised that you had double posted, may i suggest that you only post the quesiotns once, otherwise it makes it hard for people to keep track of whats going on, and it may make it harder for you too since people will make comments on one thread without the benifit of whats going on in the other.

 

I hope that there as some 'useful' comments on your original thread

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

PS if you dont ge ta response after a day or so then the best route is to post a link to your thread and ask if somoen can have a look for you.

[Glenn UK]

14 days form the date of the order and yes you shoulnd send copies of the AQ to the defendant

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Comments?

 

 

I wish to reference the source of tis order, can anyone confirm for certain where it was made please?

 

No guesses, i need to be certain. i don't want my court kicking my butt for giving misinformation.

 

thanks all.

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Thanks to GaryH

 

My problem has been well and truly resolved now, cheers all for looking.

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Oops! I'm completely bloomin useless at spelling - always have been!

 

Cheers Westy, I'll copy and paste it into a spellchecker!

 

Gary

 

google 'ispell' its a spellchecker that interfaces with web browsers, its what i use, when i remember that is, oh its free too.

 

HTH

 

glenn

[Glenn UK]

bjberry

 

I suggest you don't monkey about, you can only ask the courts to consider your draft orders if you have asked them formally i.e. in writing preferably using the right forms.

 

Ive replied to this question in your other thread if that helps.

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

FWIW

 

Yes we have a record of judges not allowing the draft orders suggested, or at least my judge didn't like them one bit!! Id go so far as to say that he was ****ed off with me for submitting them to him but I'm guessing here he didn't quite say that but it was clear he didn't think a lot of them. Edit this doesnt mean we sholdnt use them imho.

 

Re CPR 18 i believe you should make your CPR 18 request when you receive the defence and probably pre allocation.

 

Generally CPR 18 is applied to fast track and above so if you submit it pre allocation then in theory they should respond.

 

chances are they will ignore it and then you have to apply for an order from the court.

 

I suspect this would then either be granted or heard at an allocation or directions hearing unless the claim was of a class to be in fast or multi track.

 

With regards to whether CPR18 is a replacement for the draft orders, the answer IMHO is no, CPR18 is not intended to deal with disclosure of documents but it is intended for either party to ask for clarification and further information of matters set out in the defence/claim.

 

You may argue this could be disclosure but i don't think this is the intent. i suspect if you ask for disclosure via a draft order and don't get it there is no point in asking for the same thing by way of CPR18 since the judge will refuse and order forcing the defendant to comply.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Thanks Glenn,

Still got a day or so b4 AQ due in. Despite "You may argue this could be disclosure but i don't think this is the intent", if we issued a CPR 18 in the absence of a request for disclosure would it not achieve the same aim?

Not being deliberately awkward but I really am trying to 'cover the bases'.

PS what do LOL and IMHO stand for - I is just a simple old wrinkly

 

i guess it depends ultimately on what 'clarification and further information' means.

 

It could of course achieve the same ends, however, i wouldn't expect a bank to comply disclose their costs because we send them a CPR18 request.

 

It my encourage them to settle, although this of course would depend on the bank, your claim and the CPR 18 request.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

 

PS personally i would suggest that in the future you don't wait for the AQ but submit a CPR 18 request when you have received their defence since this gives them the max time to think about it.

[Glenn UK]

Personally wouldn't ask for a stay.

 

I think i wrote in the comments section of my AQ in my abbey claim that a stay would materially benefit the defendant at the claimants detriment.

 

A CPR 18 request is your entitlement to get them to clarify their defence and is not to do with negotiating a settlement.

 

If you have followed the advice on the site here and given them a prelim and LBA with 14 days to comply then IMHO you have been fair enough.

 

i would send the CPR18 request and also argue against a stay since some banks have asked for this just to gain some time.

 

If they have shown any willingness to negotiate then the response may be different.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Glenn,

Many thanks for taking the time - I'll just get a CPR18 to them expressed (or even faxed?) and not apply for a stay. Yup - went down the prelim, LBA route just didn't wanna show up as too much of a muppet by not giving them much notice.

 

Kenny

 

I should have mentioned that there is a special format for the CPR18 request, if you haven't looked you can check out the CPR themselves or look at the CPR 18 requests in my Abbey thread, i think theres one posted on my Barclaycard thread too.

 

They may give you some ideas.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Remember once a case has been allocated to the Small Claims Track CPR Part 18 ceases to apply and can no longer be used! Any CPR Part 18 must be issued and dealt with pre allocation; unless the claim is bound for another track.

 

true, but

 

27.2(3)The court of its own initiative may order a party to provide further information if it considers it appropriate to do so.

 

So even if the application isnt dealt with per AQ the court could, should it consdider appropriate order complaince in effect.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

If the bank hasnt sent statement copies (naughty naughty ) can I delete (b) in POST #2?

 

Or perhaps state bank has failed to deal with S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) correctly etc

 

Delboy

 

Why do you think they havent complied if they havent sent copy statements? have they sent you any data?

 

Whats b) in post #2?

[Glenn UK]

Delboy

 

they are not obliged to send you statements and if you used the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) template from the library i suggest you read what you asked for.

 

If they haven't supplied you with transactional data for the account history then they haven't complied.

 

If they have then they have complied, statements are not required and they are not obliged to provide them.

 

You don't need to give the court statements, you need to be able to prove the charges, if the bank has sent you a list then thats your evidence.

 

With regards to manual intervention, you simply write back and say for the avoidance of doubt you haven't said i take it to mean this there is not a record of any on my account?

 

Ask them to respond within 7 days.

 

When you file at court this letter, along with their response if any is part of your evidence also.

 

So all in all, you only need a list of charges from them and thats more or less what you asked for, it could be argued they should send a list of all transactions and i wouldn't disagree with that, but in truth you can manage without it.

 

You could try to make their life a bitch over it, but if you have the data you need them i would suggest thats all you need.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Is it perfectly acceptable to send the court and defendant a printed PDF version of the N149. My hand writing is around font size 20.

 

Will struggle with the first paragraph.

 

LOL

 

id go so far as to say its preferable. All my submissions have been prepared on the PC and printed out for submission makes them look much more impressive.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Gary

 

if i may add, I am sure I read somewhere that if you dont respond to offers, then the defendant is entitled to presume you have accepted the offer.

 

i would always suggest that responses to offers, be they recjections or further negotiations are dealt with within seven days.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Dickeggsy

 

when you they failed to respond to the draft directions, did the court make and order based on those directions?

 

And re judgement by default unless the courts order said thats what you can do then no you cant, you have to wait for the court to decide what its going to do. Although having said that i would write to the courts and infrom them, as you say you have done already, that they havent complied and ask for their defence to be struck out.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Dickeggsy

 

if you haven't received an Order form the court setting out what each party has to do then the bank don't have to comply with your draft.

 

So i am a little confused over what they haven't complied with and what letter you have handed in to the court?

 

The way it generally goes is you submit your AQ along with the draft orders.

 

if the court sees fit they use the draft orders and send it out to both parties along with the timeframe for compliance.

 

if the bank/you don't comply with those orders then they other party can apply for the court to strike out their claim/defence.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

ahhh in that case write to the court informing them and asking for the defence to be struck out in accordance with the order dated xx/xx/xx

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Question: If the defendant delays submission of their AQ beyond reasonable postage delay - is that what is called an 'abuse of process'? And is there any advantage we can glean from this (even if only to bring opposition legal reps into line and minimise their mind games) or do we risk alienating judges by pressuring them with letters?

 

in theory yes it can be constured as an abuse of process.

 

I would always draw this to the courts attentuion and ask them ti strike out the claim.

 

However, unless we are talking about lincoln then its unliley to happen IMHO

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Will

 

thats a bit of a one sided view i think, not every judge will adopt the orders, some wont do anything at all and others will make their own orders up, some will adopt the draft orders set out here.

 

SO using the draft orders does not mean your claim will be settled earlier although its unlikely to make it longer.

 

As you say people have nowt to loose but they shouldn't think its some kind of panacea, sadly the courts have not all taken these orders up.

[Glenn UK]

Southend did not take on the draft directions i submitted, in fact id go so far as to say they were slightly hostile!

 

I know it doesnt help but dont loose heart, they were fine eslwise.

 

Glenn