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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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John Lewis returns lost by EVRi - court claim issued against John Lewis


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Hi there, thanks for reading this.

 

Quick summary of what happened, more detail below if you need:

 

In January, I bought and returned two pairs of earphones (each over £100) from John Lewis online, paid by American Express credit card.

John Lewis arranged the returns by EVRi.

 

Package 1 arrived at JL with item missing (according to JL).

Package 2 never arrived at JL at all.

 

JL refusing to refund my money in both cases.

Is there a way to get my money back?

 

Problem 1:

I returned one pair the next day by using the EVRi label they sent me and a courier collected it from my home. I then received an email from John Lewis saying that they had received an empty box back, not the item, so they wouldn't be refunding me. At this point, I was naïve and thought that a simple conversation would get the issue resolved because it seemed to be a common experience. I was wrong.

 

Problem 2:

I decided to return the second pair two weeks later but I didn't want the same thing to happen, this time I took the item into a EVRi Parcelshop and sent it from there.

 

Imagine my despair when the tracking failed to update for a month because EVRi lost it. I spoke to the courier team at John Lewis and various customer service people and they confirmed with me that the contract was between JL and EVRi,  they would investigate and get back to me. Nobody ever did.

 

The profit protection team's only response to problem 1 was instructing me to raise a dispute with my payment provider which I did. American Express closed both cases in my favour initially after I provided details of the tracking links etc.

 

JL then reported me to Action Fraud UK and responded to Amex saying that I was clearly attempting refund fraud (no evidence submitted by JL of the state of the box in problem 1 when it arrived, or evidence of my supposed superhuman ability to control whether a courier delivers a parcel) and that was apparently enough for Amex to close the cases in JL's favour.

 

(In case anyone is wondering, Action Fraud UK didn't consider it fraud and disregarded it - just kept the information "for their records")

 

Spoke to Amex and JL several more times on the phone and got stuck in a loop of them saying this was unfair and they'd like to get it resolved, but the people making the decisions after those calls acted in contrast to that.

 

I contacted EVRi (which in itself was a miracle) and they told me by email that they would deem the parcel in Problem 2 unaccounted for and asked me to forward their email to JL, in which they instructed JL to refund me or replace the item. At this point, I was still waiting for JL to get back to me about the issue.

 

Then I talked to Amex again and they said that they have insurance for cardholders and I could get my money back through an insurance claim. They directed me to Chubb insurance who explained to me that they have buyer protection (when you don't get the item) and refund protection (when you want to return the item but the retailer is not accepting your request) and that this situation didn't fit into either category.

 

I think after this Amex advised me to reopen the disputes but they just closed them again in JL's favour for like the 4th time or something.

 

around a month ago I contacted JL one last time before trying the formal section 75 claims.

 

I forwarded them EVRi's email saying they lost the parcel and wrote a letter explaining that I understand why Problem 1 is shady from their perspective, and it's certainly not fair on anyone, but it's happened to their customers before (included reviews online, including one example from just two months ago) and we are powerless to do anything about it since we aren't EVRi's clients.

 

I asked them what else I could do to show them that I had sent the item back and sent this email to head of customer service.

 

Even at this point, I have very little hope that head of customer service is going to do anything. I can see why Problem 1 is contentious, but with Problem 2, I don't understand how JL even has a leg to stand on. All I've done in both these situations is follow the instructions given to me to the best of my ability, including going into a Parcelshop to try avoiding any further problems.

 

When I look into section 75, it's not clear to me whether these scenarios would even be covered. The way I see my options right now are:

1. Give JL a week more to respond

2. If they don't get it resolved, section 75

3. If it doesn't go in my favour, Financial Ombudsman

 

Or

Send JL a letter explaining I'm taking them to small claims court.

 

It's been 6 months of neverending nonsense and I'm really tired so I would be very grateful if anyone here has some idea of whether this is worth my time any more (it's just over £400) and what is the most effective way to actually get the money back.

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  • pepsi_max changed the title to John Lewis & EVRi missing items drama - can I even get my money back?

your target is evri, complaint letter, letter of claim, court claim.

ive moved you to the postal forum.

 

100's of like evri threads here read a few.

 

if you've already complained to evri.

the write a letter of claim.

numerous examples here keep it short and simple.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to John Lewis returns lost by EVRi - can I even get my money back?

Yes, 2 SEP issues but await our expert @BankFodder to pop in and confirm.

 

the trouble with people like cab and consumer lawyers !! Is they have no real experience.

 

you see 100's of evri threads here, they lost them (well stole/swapped the contents), they are your target. 

 

the more you read the stronger we become.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I think that you could proceed against either EVRi or against John Lewis and it's up to you which you prefer to do .

 

 

Do you know if the insured by John Lewis in the arrangement with EVRi?

 

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Provided it was absolutely John Lewis that arranged for the collection either by choosing Evri as a courier or by inviting you to choose them, I would personally choose John Lewis.

 

I expect what Bank Fodder will say is that by arranging for the collection of the goods John Lewis are accepting liability for their safe return, albeit that they then entrust it to a third party.

While their customer service falls well below the standards they advertise, usually once they receive a letter before claim they will at least start to take your complaint more seriously, not because they particularly care about your issue, perhaps their legal team is simply on a very expensive hourly rate.

 

I would expect John Lewis are far less likely to want this to proceed to court, not least of which is because when you secure judgment it will be clear as day they are in part liable for their courier's poor performance.

As you will know from reading other threads on this forum Evri aka .H.e.r.m.e.s? will deny everything and attempt to negotiate you down until they are put in front of a judge, where they will finally capitulate.

BankFodder will advise, but if John Lewis put up a fuss essentially their position is that, should you bring an action against them then they ought to counterclaim against Evri.

Ultimately it may be better to pursue John Lewis since if they are on the receiving end of a sufficient number of complaints or court claims they might choose to drop Evri as an approved courier.

As long as they can fob the issue off and instead force you into lengthy legal dispute with Evri then nothing will change for their customers.

Edited by FruitSalad1010
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Thank you all!

 

Here are my next steps, please let me know if anything is missing:

 

1. Call John Lewis today to ask if there's an update and if not, ask them to get back to me by the end of the week

 

2. Assuming they don't, this weekend I will prepare 2 letters before claim and 2 money claims and post them here to get some feedback from you guys

 

3. Send the letters before claim next week

 

Here are some questions/concerns I have please:

 

1. Should I do this process just for Problem 2 initially to see if that encourages them to sort out Problem 1 as well?

 

2. Does anyone know how likely I am to get the money back? I can afford the small claims fee but if I were to lose another £70 over this, I will feel a bit stupid.

 

3. I've been told that since I have no evidence that the item in Problem 1 was actually in the box when it was collected, the court may not rule in my favour. What do you guys think about this?

 

4. What are the legal bases for each of these claims? For Problem 1, I sent the item back the day after receiving it, so is this one to do with John Lewis breaking the cooling off period agreement,

 

or is this about them not accepting responsibility for their chosen courier stealing the contents? And for Problem

 2 as well, what's the legal basis?

 

Thanks once again for the help.

 

I understand you are volunteers and I have a lot of questions so I understand if you can't reply to all of them.

 

Just in case anyone knows, I'm also curious about whether Section 75 with Amex is safer and whether I can include the amount of interest I've lost from my account because they didn't refund me for over 6 months.

 

I've since read about claiming interest so please disregard that question. Still curious about whether I should try section 75 though

 

18 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Do you know if the insured by John Lewis in the arrangement with EVRi?

 

I'm not sure about this but I think John Lewis may have been able to claim like £25 or something from EVRi. Can't remember where I read that

Edited by pepsi_max
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Hello @BankFodder, @FruitSalad1010and @dx100uk. I am very grateful for your input so far.

 

I have decided to start the process with Problem 2 (parcel that was never delivered to John Lewis). Please find attached my proposed letter of claim.

 

Some questions please, if you don't mind:

  1. How's the letter looking? I'm wondering if I need to include a legal basis in this letter and what the legal basis is. Also whether I should include that I am open to mediation.
  2. My sister's name is the one on the order but the order was paid for from an additional card on my credit card account so can the action come from either of us or does it need to be my sister?
  3. Does it matter that their address is a PO Box or can I still consider it received as soon as it's been signed for?
  4. Should I include anything about the credit card dispute and Action Fraud report?
  5. Does anyone have any predictions on how likely I am to win this? I think Section 75 dispute & Financial Ombudsman is still an option before small claims, but you guys are the experts so I will do whatever you feel is best

Will prepare the next bit and post it here soon so am ready to go on day 8. Thanks so much for the help.

John Lewis Letter before Claim - Problem 2.pdf

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Loc must be 14 days 

You can't do anything, must be your sister

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi @dx100uk, @FruitSalad1010, @BankFodder. I want to send off the letters of claim tomorrow but I can only do it if I understand the legal basis for my claims.

I know I have to write particulars of the claims but I have scoured this website and can't find any threads which have similar issues that went through this full process.

Do you have any threads you can think of that I can read?

 

My best efforts to write the particulars of claims are below - could you please give me some feedback?

I don't know what legislation/law is relevant to each case. What would you say?

 

Quote

 

Particulars of claim (Item which was NEVER delivered back to John Lewis)

Item declared: Apple AirPods Pro with MagSafe Charging Case

Cost: £189

 

The claimant requested to return the item within the defendant's returns period. The defendant accepted the return request and provided instructions to the claimant to hand the item over to the defendant's chosen courier, EVRi, using a postage label generated by the defendant. The contract for delivering this item existed between the courier and the defendant. 

 

The claimant followed these instructions and handed the item over to the courier. The courier did not deliver the parcel to the defendant and accepted responsibility for the loss of the parcel. Despite this, the defendant refused to refund the claimant.

 

The claimant seeks £189 plus interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act.

 

 

Quote

 

Particulars of claim (Item where EVRi delivered an empty box back)

Item declared: Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro with Qi-Compatible Wireless Charging

Cost: £219

 

The claimant requested to return the item within the 14 day cooling off period to the defendant. The defendant accepted the return request and provided instructions to the claimant to hand the item over to the defendant's chosen courier, EVRi, using a postage label generated by the defendant. The contract for delivering this item existed between the courier and the defendant.

 

The claimant followed these instructions and handed the item over to the courier. The defendant claims to have received an empty box from the courier. The parcel was tampered with while under the courier's care before it was delivered. Despite following the defendant's instructions to return the parcel, the defendant refused to refund the claimant, rather than dealing with the issue with the courier.

 

The claimant seeks £219 plus interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act.

 

 

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All looking ok.

 

Dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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POCS are not needed till you file the claims on MCOL.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Update: letters were delivered today

 

Got an email from them about issue 1 (EVRi delivered back an empty box) and have been told I've been refunded and will see the money in 3-5 days. Apparently evri contacted them to say they lost the parcel. I'm wondering if they've confused the 2 issues, but who am I to question a refund.

 

Will keep you posted about issue 2!

Edited by pepsi_max
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Mcol will guide you on that too but yes 

Plenty of evri claimform threads here too 

 

Dx

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ones a new trial.

most claims here are based upon mcol.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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i dont know.

you'd have to see what others have done

i think some did use it on an evri claim and wasnt impressed.

 

however, have you sent your letter of claim yet to evri?
 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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alright cool. i dont know if im looking in the wrong place but im finding it hard to find examples on the website. i'll look again tomorrow.

 

i will be proceeding against John Lewis rather than Evri. Sent them the letter of claim already. Currently just familiarising myself with the money claims part so I am ready on day 15 if they haven't refunded me by then, making sure I have all the information ready.

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sorry you did.

so what you posted earlier as the poc is ok as far as i can see.

if you hit small claims i believe a guide comes up bankfodder has done

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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@dx100ukthanks. Quick question: they signed for the letter at 9am on 2nd September. I said to refund within 14 days or I'll start the claim.

 

Do I start the claim on 16th or do the 14 days start the day after day they sign for it, in which case I start the claim on the 17th?

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