Bank Park ANPR PCN Claimform - Blue Car Park 2 Merry Hill Brierley DY5 1QX - *** Claim Dismissed ***

[Andy711351]

Ok i have walked away

 

didnt give much away

[Andy711351]

as an independent advocate does he have a right to audience?

 

he asked me if i thought both signages were wrong on page20 or one

 

I said sorry I cant discuss

[Andy711351]

Great news !!

 

Claim dismissed   

 

 

Thankyou to evreyone so much

 

I will contribute the costs as a donation  ( 1/2 days was awarded)

 

But must say it was so close and could have gone easily their way

 

U wont belive it but been up all night not slept at all 

 

 

[Andy711351]

1. Judge was convinced he had right of audience. Though he said he was independent advocate but somehow someone in Elms oversees him though didnt sound convincing

 

2. Judge rejected my objectedion to their suplemtn WS. She said you had from Mid  Feb till now to challneg it, so she allwoed it

 

1. Signage

 

she didnt dismiss it at all based on the signage being small font etc... etc...

 

Only reason was that the claimant had included too many signages as  a bundle, and the only signage that they had presented that was actually taken in the car park was too hard to read if it was a 4 hr limit  type or not.

 

Also in their exhibits they had included only one of of real 4 hr signage in the blue car part . If the photo had shown several 4 hr limit signs in the blue park showing the 4 hrs, she would have probably allowed it, onyl the principle of ' ample signages'.

 

Bottom line she dismissed it only because the claimant had produced one photo with the relevant signage in place but she could not read on the heading whether it was one of the 4 hr overstay signages

 

Even saying that the welcome to the merry hill was an incitation to treat not offer of contract, seemed unimpressed to her.

 

2. Time in and out

 

she dismissed it by saying the defendant had not proved really that defendant was there for whole period and that defended had referred to the Land without being clear what the the definition of the land in question was .

 

3. Even after pointing out that their contract with the landowner only allowed them as far as debt collection and not court proceedings ,she  did not really cite that as a reason that they had no locus standi

 

Essentially the claimant went through every band and she did not grill him etc.. and happily just moved along even to their NTK etc and accepted all the stuff about it being complaint.

 

She did say to me that your initial defence had thrown the kitchen sink and I dont think that was something she was seeking. 

 

So the kitchen sink approach tackling every point doesn't seem to go too well.

 

I wasnt able to say 1/100 of what I had prepared as most the time she was having this pleasant  exchanges with the claimant nicely working thru his bands...

 

Did not even allow to to explain that the claimant in fact where the robo claims, etc...

 

 

Could have gone either way very very easily

 

Bottom line also, i think it is a total lottery and can easily go in any direction.

 

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

Thankyou  xxx

 

once i receive the money in the account please ket me know hot to donate it to the site

 

its very interesting how different judges dont even pay any attention to any citation of previous  cases or reliance on any piece of legistlation is rather shocking

[Andy711351]

Thankyou everyone.

 

I was looking at Daves link in post #137 re right of audience

 

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/search?q=right+of+audience

 

 

It really does still concern me that when i read the link on parking prankster, DJ Dignon examined whether there was a chain of conduct from BW legal to elms legal and then to Ms Jackson the advocate 

 

Elms has not had conduct of the matter, and has essentially simply acted as a conduit between BW Legal and Ms Jackson. It has not added further instructions, not added any further evidence, indeed, it has acted as a pipe. Elm's instructions to Ms Jackson are those of BW Legal - go to the hearing, and conduct it this way. As a result Ms Jackson claims she is instructed by and involved in the conduct of litigation as staff of Elms Legal. But is this the case

 

 

Today, at my hearing , BP obviously had DCB legal as their representative who must have instructed Elms legal to get an independent advocate.

 

 

The advocate was this young man  and this is his testimony on ELMS legal site 

 

“I applied to work with ELMS as I wanted to continue to develop the skills I had gained from the BPTC and gain real court experience. Working with ELMS has provided the opportunity to conduct court cases every day, with a busy and diverse caseload. The staff at ELMS are incredibly knowledgeable and supportive, and deal with case queries in a professional and friendly manner. They provide competitive rates of remuneration and always pay on time. For anyone applying for a role with ELMS, I cannot recommend them enough.”
– Lewis Jukes, LLM BPTC

 

 

So Lewis Jukes turned up to represent BP today in my case

 

I just challenged the Right of audience

 

The Judge just didnt come across as very familiar with all of this. She had to open he law book and within 5 minutes said I am satisfied he has the right of audience and allowed him to proceed. He started coming up with names of this and that person in Elms legal who kind of 'supervises him, and he was looking  at his laptop whilst doing all that. No body knows whether he was telling any truths or not, but the judge just accepted the names of his 'so called' supervisors at face value and allowed him to proceed.

 

Point I am making is again it a total lottery. One judge may allow an advocate and another may night even if the two advocates are more or less identical in their qualifications/regulatory bodies/supervision. 

 

In conclusion, although I am extremely happy and won today, I had, my hand up and say that the judge really wasn't very sharp neither on the issues of right of audience, nor of the issues of whether the contract between BP and the landowner gave them the right to commence court proceedings ( despite me pointing it out clearly to her based on the copy of the contract that BP had produced). 

 

She also was totally oblivious o the fact the  unreadable fonts and hidden charges on signages invalidate the contract. Oblivious that the welcome sign on exhibit 2 of the WS of the claimant was an invitation to treat.

 

Had the Claimant provided with one phot of the  Blue Car park showing 3 signages in the same car park in the phot

 

( to accept the claimants statement that there are more than one signages in the car park, and therefore ample- I must say that, this is true because on my recent visit 2 months  ago to the blue car park, I agree there are at least 10 signages in that blue car park all all with the same 4 hr stay limit) ,

 

and had they just enhanced the heading of one of the signs in the Blue car park here there such that the 4 hr overstay limit was readable, then she would have accepted their claim that there was sufficient signage throughout.

 

In other words, none of the talk about the charges being hidden in small print seemed to be relevant in her view. That really did worry me

 

That's why when he came to announce or make her summary, i was convinced I was liable. 

 

Lessons:

 

1. Please Please pay attention to the signages when going onto any private land. Dont deliberately ignore them limits. However, if you unintentionally ignore or forget to check the signage and are not aware of the time limit ( this was my case. I just had forgotten to read the signages and pay attention  - Its  not that I had read the signs at the time limits and Deliberately ignored them because I knew at some point in the future I will definitely win in court-

 

that attitude of deliberately ignoring them because one feels that they will win in court is just not worth it). So please read signages and try to abide by them to avoid of the subsequent headache.

 

2. Please do appeal it if you get the ticket. dont ignore that stage and subsequent stages for it to reach LBC and so on. I did fault in this step and one reason was because I just wasn't sure if I could write a convincing appeal which would have been rejected anyhow, because that what these parking companies do. However, in retrospect maybe i still should have or even gone to the retails stores and asked them to cancel the ticket. these still all worth it

 

3.Iif you ever do reach the court stage, then if you will file a defence then better to seek advice from a site like this ( which I found BRILLIANT) and I will be donating my costs awarded to it in due course).

 

Do your research but do not and I emphasise DO NOT trust companies like Private Parking Appeals. Unfortunately, I trusted them paid them £20 for the initial Defence , which was , in truth , more or less a template  defence they use for everyone.

 

The Judge today had had a look at it and commented that I had thrown the kitchen sink ( she wasn't impressed that much).

 

However, my subsequent WS was much much better organized, written  by myself with the help of the CAG here. In fact, I remember that when I contacted private parking appeals for help, they had asked me for a letter of authority ( LOA). However, i think they just must have binned it because all the correspondence kept coming to me, despite the LOA stating that all correspondence should be served to the registered address of Private Parking Appeals. 

 

this private company then stopped replying to my emails. It had two members and a generic email. All the emails were being returned undelivered. I then realised what an awful trust pilot review they had. Also, there site was no longer reachable.

 

It now appears that their site is active again  but the logos everything has completely changed.

 

On trust pilot Im still surprised that there are reviews for  people in feb 2021 stating how they paid this company £20 and nothing happened. Have a look for yourself.

 

Not sure whether they have resurfaced with the same directors mangers e..etc.. Not sure why they were unobtainable almost a year ago. Not sure if there has been any crowdfunding to challenge the service they provide.

 

4. If there is a hearing, then if you really know the legal side of things then great. If not, either a decent reliable Lay representative who knows the area very well is worth it.

 

If you dont have that and go by yourself, despite having done the homework, be prepared for any outcome because in my experience it is a total lottery.

 

Frankly I was more disappointed with the judge, who still dismissed the case only because the claimant hadn't provided a few extra signs. Why I say that Im disappointed by the Judge today than the fleecers. That's because we as public put our full trust in people who are meant to listen to us and uphold REAL justice to keep away Fleecers like these parking companies.  Despite Beavis etc..

 

I sadly must say that nothing robust has been done by lawmaker to stop them ripping off the public by their inflated charges because neither the politicians or those sitting in the courts of justice and upholding it, can seem the clear light that they are a bunch of crooks ripping the public.

 

I was just reflecting on my whole 'journey' with this single parking ticket that was issues in June 2019 and concluded today. had I just paid more attention to he signs I would not have had to go through this. I know I won, but the stress just wasnt worth it.

 

I think that CAG are fantastic fabulous.

 

For such people to give up so much their time and help people like myself and others who need advice is just amazing and I couldn't thank them enough for how much they have helped me

 

Big Big Thankyou Caggers

 

esp

 

DTM Dave, DX 100, lookingforinfo, whom more or less were like virtual ( legal ) advisors to me following every post I make and replying to it in a speedy an diligent way

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

Hello All

 

When the case concluded, the advocate from Elms appointed via DCB etc.. got my bank details to get BP to transfer the money into my account , thats the awarded costs.

Given that everything is now electronic, shouldn't I have received my £45 costs by now ?

 

either

 

1. the advocate hasnt passed on the info

 

2. he has but BP is ignoring it

 

3. im rushing lol

 

 

lets assume they procastinate and dont bother, what do I do next ?

 

Who do i email/write to?

 

 

Thanks