Andrea1967 v Nationwide - Nightmare/Desperate

[Andrea1967]

Dear All

 

After reading for weeks, making a few posts and getting my wrists slapped for 'hijacking' a thread (sorry about that - didn't realise how it worked then), well I finally got the courage to kick things off with Nationwide. I sent the DPA letter and received the standard response (19th April) with leaflet and await the file. They haven't returned my cheque though. (Perhaps that will happen later?) However, I only sent that to cover the 'manual intervention' issue as I have statements and know the amount I am claiming.

 

The amount I am claiming is £942.02 going back five years (though the bulk of charges were actually taken in the last year).

 

So I hope I haven't jumped the gun, but as I saw on here that people are getting a fairly quick refund from Nationwide (and I am desperate for money) I decided to send my preliminary letter before getting the full response to DPA request and 'manual intervention' info.

 

I sent this to Mr Bacon on Friday 21st April (recorded delivery). I also sent it to his email address. I requested a 'return receipt' on the e-mail before sending it but strangely I did not get any kind of delivery report on this item.

 

I will keep you all posted as to what happens. In the meantime, I just wanted to say thanks to all involved with this group for all that you do. The new idea of buddy support at Courts is wonderful as I think each of us expect that we might be the bloody unlucky one they decide to pick on and fight all the way. The idea of going to court is probably the most daunting aspect for most of us commencing a claim, so it's great to know that we are all their for each other.

[jonni2bad]

Good luck Andrea...

 

Keep us posted on events and we can all help you along the way.

 

I see no problem in sending the letter now, since you know what the charges are. By the time this might eventually reach court, you will have had (no) response on the manual intervention issue.

 

And at the back of our minds, we all secretly think we will be the one!

[coffindodger]

Good luck, hope you get a quick and positive response

Brian

[Andrea1967]

28th April - Today received response to my preliminary request. Letter from Sarah Watson, Team Manager, Member Account Servicing, Swindon. (I wrote to Charles Bacon). It is the standard response letter ".....feedback from members invaluable....., ...terms and conditions ......Nationwide is open and transparent... I hope that this has helped to clarify our position and you will appreciate why I am unable to refund any charges on your account....

 

They enclosed a page stating that they use FSA rules and the matter can be reviewed by Member Service Dept then onto Financial Ombudsman. They ended by saying that if they don't hear back within 56 days, they will close the file.

 

I will prepare my LBA today.

 

Couple of questions for anyone in the know:

1. In my preliminary letter, I added on all the interest charges from my statements. I now believe this to be incorrect as I have an authorised overdraft. Am I right in thinking it is easier to just leave out reference to interest.

 

2. They will be definitely be adding further charges to my account this month (though I don't know what they will be yet). Can I address this in my LBA? eg state 'I claim £842 plus any subsequent charges' (subsequent charges can then be added to my court claim form).

 

And why oh why are they being so inconistent - didn't one of us get a refund after preliminary letter. It's not fair.

 

Note to Andrea: stop counting chickens before they are hatched (and stop spending the money in your head when you don't have it!!!)

[coffindodger]

 

Couple of questions for anyone in the know:

1. In my preliminary letter, I added on all the interest charges from my statements. I now believe this to be incorrect as I have an authorised overdraft. Am I right in thinking it is easier to just leave out reference to interest.

 

 

 

And why oh why are they being so inconistent - didn't one of us get a refund after preliminary letter. It's not fair.

 

I did the same as you regarding the interest and although my charges have been refunded the interest was not (and I am that fella that got refunded after the preliminary letter) I think it is too complicated for me to try and work out what interest charges I can claim for but one school of though is claim for it all and let the bank work out how much is authorised interest charges. Don't know if that would work though.

 

Strange that you wrote to Charles Bacon but you got a response from Customer Services. perhaps he got the sack after my refund:D

Brian

[jonni2bad]

Hi Andrea

 

In response to point...

 

(1) At this stage, you can only claim for interest placed on your account solely due to the charges imposed. If your statements do not show this directly, it is a mini minefiled working out what they are.

 

If you are forced to make a claim via the courts, then you add 8% to each one - use the spreadsheet in templates- very simple indeed and often adds considerably to your claim

 

(2) You can alter the claim figure right up to the court stage, no worries there.

 

If there are any made between court action and the settlement, you can start another claim, but having just paid out they might be more tempted to waive them!

 

John

[Andrea1967]

If you are forced to make a claim via the courts, then you add 8% to each one - use the spreadsheet in templates- very simple indeed and often adds considerably to your claim

 

Thanks for that really helpful. Assuming above you are saying add 8% to each charge?

[jonni2bad]

The spreadsheet works it out for you. It's like an 8% APR - you don't simply add a flat 8% on top

 

Some of my charges from 6 years ago are worth 50% more to me if they go to court. For instance

 

Charge £50 Date incurred 31/05/2000 No. of days 2158 Interest £23.74

 

Guess what I'm hoping they do?

[Andrea1967]

Jonni2bad. Thanks that's really helpful. So you are hoping they will take you to court! You are so brave. You are spoiling for a fight aren't you. You are '2Bad'. Jonni B Good!

 

Coffindodger - Brian, Thanks for yours too. Hope you're enjoying your new found wealth. Glad to see you're still with us. Don't forget, we knew you when you were poor and in the red. x

 

They really don't seem to have a strategy do they. But I get scared they will read all this stuff and come up with one. Maybe they know who I am! Maybe they know my next steps. I know, it's late I'm getting paranoid. They can't win... can they?`

[coffindodger]

When I was poor? still am:D

 

Hope you get a quick result

Brian

[Andrea1967]

Sent my LBA letter today by email and post, put For Attention Charles Bacon.

 

Did not include the interest part that I had on preliminary request as it was all wrong. Just going for straight charges and obviously will add on the 8% interest should I need to send the court form in.

 

Thanks again so much for your sound advice.

 

Now just waiting to hear .......

[jonni2bad]

Wonder if you'll get your money before the end of the month........?

[martinwhite]

I sent this to Mr Bacon on Friday 21st April (recorded delivery). I also sent it to his email address. I requested a 'return receipt' on the e-mail before sending it but strangely I did not get any kind of delivery report on this item.

 

Most modern email systems will ask you if you want to send a receipt. This is because Microsoft et al decided that the principle of sending "messages" without the knowledge or consent of the "sender" was a bad thing.

 

It doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't read it.

 

Martin

[Andrea1967]

Thanks Martin, I never knew that. It has never happened to me at work, (Lotus notes) maybe I have never had a return receipt put on a message to me. What a lovely thought.

 

Think my data file pack arrived today as I had a card from post office saying it was too big for letterbox and required signature.

 

Not heard back from my LBA (sent 1 week ago today). No monies refunded so far either.

[Andrea1967]

Thought I would check my account just on the off chance that they may have refunded me some charges as it has been a week since I sent LBA (but they haven't). However, I did notice that this month, for the first time in ages, they didn't bounce anything even though I was well over the overdraft limit.

 

They used to be like this with me all the time which is why I was always happy with them. (And I really was happy with them for a long time). I would get a charge of about £15 for unauthorised overdraft but I could live with that.

 

Anyone any thoughts on their sudden change of heart. Is it something they could or might plan to use in their defence should it end up in court?

 

Cheers

 

PS What I love about Nationwide Action Group is that our initials stand for NAG! They must be sick of hearing us!

[BankFodder]

Don't let on to that you could be happy with a £15 charge. It's still an extremely high charge which far exceeds the bank's actual losses. This means that £15 would still be unlawful.

 

As the banks won't disclose what they cost actually are then we have to make our own assumptions. We can reasonably expect that their costs are less than a pound a time and so even to charge £3 would still mean there they are making an enormous profit by the standards of the average high Street business. Normal markup on the High Street is 100%.

[Andrea1967]

Thanks for that really helpful and I promise I won't admit to ever being happy with NW.

 

However, hasn't it been decided (for credit cards) that £12 is a reasonable amount to charge? Way above the £1 or £3 you suggest.

 

Also, do you have any thoughts on why they have stopped bouncing me all over the place. Do you think they will try and undermine my case by showing how dreadfully I might conduct my account if they allow it or is it completely irrelevant.

[Andrea1967]

For various reasons including postings of others and my own personal circumstances I am losing my bottle to pursue to court action.

 

I don't really want to go into it here in case it lowers morale of everyone and/or banks get wind of it and increase the use of the tactic.

 

May I please 'pm' anyone (Mod/admin) to give an outline and gain advice either on my concerns or as to their suitability for posting here.

 

Much appreciated.

 

Kind regards

[Andrea1967]

Having noticed the aggressive tactics employed by Nationwide lately, in withdrawing overdrafts I panicked and have not pursued the matter to court yet which is the stage I am up to. (NW have acknowledged my LBA and stated the FSA 8 week response time.) This is because I have found there is a default on my credit file and so will not be able to open another account elsewhere. Anyhow this has not helped in anyway as just now, I have received an automated phonecall from Nationwide advising me that as I have exceeded my overdraft (£500) by £39, they require me to pay the full amount back of £539 immediately.

 

(Though on my online banking it states my current agreed overdraft limit is £500)

 

I cannot do this. I absolutely cannot make this payment. I am waiting for my working families tax credit money to go into my account and I am not sure this will even be enough be to cover my childcare costs for the next three weeks till payday and I suspect they are just going to keep it anyway effectively leaving me absolutely penniless and in dire straits.

 

I held on to speak to an operator but the message told me that none are currently available and I will be called back.

 

I cannot believe they would pull such an underhand low trick and leave a single parent in absolutely dire straits.

 

Can anyone advise as to how I should proceed.

[jonni2bad]

Make it an absolut priority to open another account elsewhere - you will be able to open a BASIC bank account even with Defaults or CCJs etc. Many users report that the Natwest Step account is good - I myself have a HSBC Basic account and MANY defaults!!

 

Is it too late to have the benefit payment redirected? Phone the Tax credit helpline and seek advice about witholding payment for a few days until you get sorted. If necessary, tell them the account has been closed. See if you can receive payment in some other way on this one occasion. Stress that it will cause you hardship otherwise.

 

If payment must go there, you should write a letter to your bank entitled "Right of Appropriation". In it, make it very clear that you are expecting a benefit payment into your account on (date) and that this money is required for food and childcare costs (etc etc) and must not be used to pay for charges.

 

Take it into the bank and ask to see a manager. If they do not understand this request, tell them to speak to their Head Office for clarification of your rights. Don't leave until they assure you it will be dealt with, and try to get something in writing, at the least a receipt of the letter.

 

We are still learning about this action and it may be that bank staff don't know either, or have a very limited understanding of it.

 

However, this may well be used to recover part of the current overdraft. If it is at all possible, try to withdraw any available funds on the day your payment arrives.

 

If you have any other income streams into this account, change them ASAP.

 

Once you have a new account in place then we can deal with Nationwide later.

 

How much are you reclaiming in charges?

[Andrea1967]

Jonni, thank you so much for your advise. I have missed the cut off point for calling Tax credits today - they shut at eight. I will ring them first thing. I have just been on the phone to acquire a secured loan but this will take weeks to go through so will not offer an immediate solution. I have written to the catalogue company asking if they can remove the default from my credit file as I am paying the amount and it will be settled shortly.

 

However, this does not take away my immediate problem. I will do as you suggest and go in with the letter. Is it worth doing anything on their on line messaging tonight. Perhaps stating that I cannot pay them and will be calling in with a letter? I have not so far had the call back (though my phone was busy for some time).

 

I used to believe that Nationwide were one of the more ethical institutions I cannot believe how underhand they have become. Lowlifes!

 

I am claiming over £800 (excluding the 8% interest part).

[jonni2bad]

Ok.

 

We need to discuss the amount you were defaulted for, and at what level your charges were at the time. This can be done later. There are more important immediate issues here.

 

When, not if, you open a new account elsewhere, we need to write to the bank again letting them know that the balance is in dispute and that you will not be making any payment into it until that is resolved.

 

Your priorities tomorrow, in my opinion, should be;

 

Speak to Inland Rev regarding diversion of payment

Open new account

Issue 'Right of Appropriation' letter to Nationwide if Tax Credits can't alter.

[Andrea1967]

Thank you so much.

 

I will do as you say tomorrow am. However, have calculated Inland revenue payment is due in tomorrow so I expect it is now sitting in N/wide clearing account.

 

I expect N/wide are well aware of this money coming in.

[Andrea1967]

Jonni - If you are still around, have spoke to my mum who will (again) lend me enough to keep wolf from door for a few weeks.

 

Is it appropriate now to let Nationwide keep the money should it reach them and dispute it through the courts as charges in normal way or still pursue the matter with the letter of entitlement you suggest and dispute the sum?

[jonni2bad]

It might still be wise to try the letter tomorrow, as early as you can, just in case their computers don't act as quickly as we might imagine.

 

State that the current overdraft is made up entirely of charges (totalling £800) and thus the Tax Credit should not be used to cover this.

 

If their computer has already set your overdraft limit to zero, you won't be able to withdraw funds at a cashpoint, but if you argue the point inside, just loud enough for other customers to hear you then you never know what they might do....

 

Disputing the subsequent debt, when you move, will be a new letter.

 

Am I correct in thinking that you can now proceed to court action? If so, and you can get them to release some of this Tax Credit money, could you use that to start your claim? I appreciate that finances may be getting in the way here, and your priorities are obviously day to day living.

 

If you have something you would rather not post on the forum but would still like to share, then please feel free to PM me. Anything you can share is best placed here, since it all helps other users in the long run.

 

I will PMd you with another detail that might be of use, but is not for the open forum.