Employee loyalty card abuse ***Settled at Mediation***

[ChrisS1968]

Hi all,

 

My son in law to be has gotten himself in a pickle with his previous employer (Stonegate Pubs Ltd)

When he was employed by them as a barman he had a MORE card, Stonegates version of a clubcard.

 

Now he admits to me that he used to swipe it and collect unclaimed points at the bar and yes he had a few free beers and plates of chips when he was out of work and in one of their pubs but since he left they have come after him with a bill which greatly exceeds what he thinks he should owe.

Now I don't have any idea just what his liability is in this instance.

 

I have attached a copy of the letter he received from BLP  but the one thing I note within the wording is they have used the word "estimate" when arriving at a sum of money. This I am fairly sure wouldn't hold water in court on that alone.

 

Also they claim to have gone through CCTV showing him swiping his own card.

Again, I find it difficult to believe that they would sit through hours of CCTV for what is IMO a trivial matter.

 

If it were me I would treat this much the same way as a private parking fine and let them whistle without contact but being a bit green he has replied to them and although not admitting the full amount he has acknowledged there is a problem.

They are already playing hard ball and insisting in full and final payment!

 

Now would he not be entitled to see a breakdown of their "estimate" and also copies of the incriminating CCTV?

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Chris

 

BLP letter.pdf

[ChrisS1968]

Hi DX,

 

Thanks or the reply.

 

The original contact was made by the brewery, he failed to mention this.

 

I will paste the email in below leaving out personal info.

 

From: Stefan Sroczynski <[email protected]>
Sent: 14 February 2020 10:54
To:
Subject: Fraud Investigation

 

14/02/2020

Dear

In my role as Fraud Manager for Stonegate Pub Company I was carrying out a scheduled visit to your former place of work, The Bloomery in Sheffield. The purpose of my visit was to investigate till transactions that had flagged up on our IntelliQ system in your name regarding MORE card usage in site.

 

Your name in particular flagged up as it could be seen that a MORE card registered in your name was being scanned on shift with your Zonal till log in.

 

I have a long list of transactions of this happening.

I began to align these transactions against CCTV where you can clearly be seen scanning your MORE card in a fraudulent manner, gaining points from customer’s rounds whilst you are on the bar working.

 

I have a large bank of CCTV evidence showing you take your MORE card from your pocket and swiping it on the till whilst on shift.

 

As you will know this is against many company policies and is not allowed.

Gaining points fraudulently and spending them is treated by Stonegate Pub Company in the same way as someone taking cash from the till.

 

Your card in question (number ********************) has had a lifetime spend of £4126, £3527 of which has been put through on your own till card. This equates to £352.72 of spendable points that have been fraudulently earnt.

 

At time of investigation the remaining balance on the card was £3.37, leaving the fraud total at £349.35.

Stonegate will therefore be looking to recover this money plus the costs of the investigation (£177.60) making the total amount payable by you £526.95.

 

We will give you the opportunity to pay this back to within 14 days of receipt of this email – should you choose not to do so the case will be passed to our partner County Court debt recovery company,  Business Loss Prevention Limited who will recover the money on our behalf.

 

Please contact myself or ER Support ([email protected]) stating how you would like to proceed.

 

Many Thanks

 

Stefan Sroczynski | Fraud Manager Midlands

Email: [email protected]

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/StonegateLTC

 

[ChrisS1968]

Thanks again folks for the advice. The general consensus seems to be to ignore this and leave it to them to follow up if they choose to. I guess we;ll just have to wait and see if they are are just out on a punt or if they mean it. If its the second we''ll cross that bridge when we het there.

 

Chris

[ChrisS1968]

Hi all,

 

He has been accused of swiping his loyalty card and collecting unclaimed points whilst working in a pub for the Stonegate Group.

 

He received a few threatograms from an RLP company and I told him to just ignore them and they will most likely go away. Thing is they haven't.

 

They have now launched proceedings against him and demanding a stupid amount of money.

Its almost certainly a speculative claim like most.

 

Unlike a credit claim with which I have had dealings and thanks to this excellent community managed to defend successfully, I'm not sure how to go about advising him to defend it?

 

Firstly, can he make a request for info under CPR 31.14 for all case notes/files etc?

I'm guessing he can?

 

Also, as far as a defence goes, this isn't particularly straightforward because he has been accused of what I guess is a criminal act so there is no way of defending this on the strength of incomplete paperwork, proof of ownership of a debt or anything.

 

I have attached a copy of the summons with all personal info removed for your info.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated even if its only a few pointers.

 

In my eyes though, if they have sound evidence supporting their claim surely he has a right to view it before anything else?

 

Cheers

Summons.pdf

[ChrisS1968]

Hi all,

 

Summons Info info as follows.....

 

Name of the Claimant ? Stonegate Pub Company Ltd

Porter Tun House

500 Capability Green

Luton

LU1 3LS

 

Date of issue – Nov 19^th 2020

 

Date to submit defence   21st Dec 2020

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.      Whilst the defendant was employed by the claimant the defendant sold goods belonging to the claimant receiving full price and purporting to account therefor but only accounting for part thereof and retaining the balance for his own benefit.

 

2.      The defendant has thereby (1) stolen, and/or (b) failed to account and/or (c) committed a deceit and/or (d) been unjustly enriched by the amount retained.

 

3.      The claimant suffered a loss from the defendants actions of £526.95 including the cost of investigation.

 

The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 22/12/2019 to 18/11/2020 on £526.95 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.23.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £735.91
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes, notice of civil claim
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? N/A
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? N/A
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? N/A
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. No, Claim issued by BLP
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not as such assigned, just received letters from BLP claiming to be acting on behalf.
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? N/A
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? N/A
 

Why did you cease payments? N/A
 

What was the date of your last payment? N/A
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? N/A
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? N/A

 

As a lot of the questions above relate to credit Ive had to N/A quite a few but everything else is answered. If it helps I can post the other two letters he received one of which is a final demand.

 

Lastly, does he have a right to see any evidence they claim to have against him under CPR?

 

Cheers, Chris

 

[ChrisS1968]

Three letters attached, personal details removed. Will get to work of that CPR request now.

 

Chris

Redacted Letters.pdf

[ChrisS1968]

Thanks for your input folks,

 

Yes, my SIL isn't blameless and to be fair he's always said this. However he swears he hasn't gotten no where near what they are demanding and although it's irrelevant he was one of many doing what he did.

 

He has made contact with them once before he spoke to me about it and to be honest I don't know what form it took and what was said but I will find out and come back with an update tomorrow.

 

Comments about CPR noted and I have asked for all evidence including CCTV footage or at least access to it and a breakdown of how they came to that ridiculous figure and documentation to support it.

 

Chris

[ChrisS1968]

Evening all,

 

Ive drafted a CPR request and will attach it to this post for comment.

 

However..............................

 

Having spoke to my SIL 5 minutes ago, He e may well have sunk himself due to inexperience. He has now told me (cant believe this) that he emailed Stonegate when they first contacted him by letter & email asking how it could be resolved. I'm by no means a legal expert but in my mind that is pretty much a physical admission of guilt whether it was for 50p or £350.00!

 

I will paste in the email chain below, I'll highlight Stonegate in red text. I think he's screwed to be honest and I'm now not entirely sure about the few pints and a plate of chips version of events.....

 

1st Email from Stonegate to my SIL

 

14/02/2020

Dear *******,

In my role as Fraud Manager for Stonegate Pub Company I was carrying out a scheduled visit to your former place of work, The Bloomery in Sheffield. The purpose of my visit was to investigate till transactions that had flagged up on our IntelliQ system in your name regarding MORE card usage in site.

Your name in particular flagged up as it could be seen that a MORE card registered in your name was being scanned on shift with your Zonal till log in. I have a long list of transactions of this happening. I began to align these transactions against CCTV where you can clearly be seen scanning your MORE card in a fraudulent manner, gaining points from customer’s rounds whilst you are on the bar working. I have a large bank of CCTV evidence showing you take your MORE card from your pocket and swiping it on the till whilst on shift.

As you will know this is against many company policies and is not allowed. Gaining points fraudulently and spending them is treated by Stonegate Pub Company in the same way as someone taking cash from the till.

Your card in question (number 3086166500918965) has had a lifetime spend of £4126, £3527 of which has been put through on your own till card. This equates to £352.72 of spendable points that have been fraudulently earnt. At time of investigation the remaining balance on the card was £3.37, leaving the fraud total at £349.35. Stonegate will therefore be looking to recover this money plus the costs of the investigation (£177.60) making the total amount payable by you £526.95.

We will give you the opportunity to pay this back to within 14 days of receipt of this email – should you choose not to do so the case will be passed to our partner County Court debt recovery company, Business Loss Prevention Limited who will recover the money on our behalf.

Please contact myself or ER Support ([email protected]) stating how you would like to proceed.

 

Many Thanks

 

Stefan Sroczynski | Fraud Manager Midlands

Email: [email protected]

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/StonegateLTC

 

1st Reply by SIL

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: *********** <******@hotmail.co.uk>
> Sent: 14 February 2020 12:17
> To: Stefan Sroczynski <[email protected]>
> Subject: More card e-mail
>
> Hi Stefan,
>
> I’m reply regarding an e-mail I’ve received off you about more card use.
>
> Just wondered how I go about solving the issue?
>
> Many thanks
>
>**************

 

Next reply from Stonegate

 

> On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:27, Stefan Sroczynski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi *******,
>
> Thank you for your quick response.
>
> If you are willing to make payment to close the case I can pass on Stonegate account information for you to make a bank transfer.
>
> Once we receive payment the case will be closed our end and no further action will be taken
>
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Stefan Sroczynski | Fraud Manager Midlands
> Email: [email protected]
> https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/StonegateLTC

 

2nd Reply by SIL

 

From: ************ <*******@hotmail.co.uk>
Sent: 14 February 2020 12:36
To: Stefan Sroczynski <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: More card e-mail

 

Hi Stefan,

Would it be possible to set up some sort of payment plan as I really don’t have that kind of money to hand all in one payment I’m afraid, but I do want to sort it out

Thanks
****************

Next reply by Stonegate.

 

From: Stefan Sroczynski
Sent: 14 February 2020 13:00
To:
Subject: RE: More card e-mail

 

Hi *********,

 

Our policy is to only accept a single payment within 14 days otherwise the debt is passed on to Business Loss Prevention Ltd.

 

If you would like to make payment the account details are:

 

A/C 13711706

Sort Code 20 00 00

Ref. ************

 

Amount is £526.95

Many Thanks

 

And this is where it ends and most probably any chance of defending it. He could of course claim that he acted out of panic and not fully understanding his rights but.....oh I dunno......

 

 

Chris

CPR 31.14.pdf

[ChrisS1968]

Cheers all!

 

@DX CPR Not sent yet.

 

@Andy Already done, AOS and defend all checked.

[ChrisS1968]

Spoke to my SIL a short while ago Andy and he had the following to say.....

 

5 hours ago, Andyorch said:

Did the above involve your SIL employment being terminated ? Or did he leave of his own accord ?

 

No, he had left their employment by this time, in fact he left January of this year.

 

4 hours ago, Andyorch said:

What dates was he employed from and to ?

 

August 2013 up until January 2020

 

4 hours ago, Andyorch said:

Was the company aware that he and I suppose others had a More Card ?

 

Yes, in fact he had a staff MORE card.

 

4 hours ago, Andyorch said:

Was your SIL aware of other members of staff doing the same ? 

 

He laughed and said "Hell Yes" This even extended to the pubs deputy manageress whom he described as the worst offender and knew that my SIL was doing it as well as other staff members.

 

There is a story here....

 

He told me that after he had left, the company fraud guys came in to do an audit with her unofficially being the main target. He has an idea that she may well have been caught with her hand in the till and so she sang like a canary to save her own arse.

[ChrisS1968]

Morning all, sorry for the delayed response but my SIL works odd shift patterns so didn't manage to speak to him till last night.

 

In response to Andy's questions.................

 

He cant remember when this all began.

 

The T's & C's for Staff cards are apparently the same as for the public cards, and no, he never received statements for the card. He did mention though that along side the illicit swipes he used his card a lot for personal purchases on nights out so a lot of the amount they are trying to reclaim could well be legitimately earned.

[ChrisS1968]

Hi all,

 

So would you say that my SIL's Goose is cooked? (Pardon the seasonal pun)

 

Chris

[ChrisS1968]

100% agree Andy, will try again. TBH, I did expect a little more info from him.

[ChrisS1968]

Evening all,

 

Right, just spoke to my SIL at length.....................

 

In response to Andy's question regarding T's & C's, that answer remains the same. The staff MORE cards and general public's cards both had the same T's & C's.

 

As for when he started the unofficial swiping practice, his best guesstimate is around September 2015.

 

Another development during our conversation, I asked him if he ever asked customers for their permission to swipe his card to claim their unclaimed points. He said he never actually asked but some regulars would forget their cards sometimes and tell him to take the points.

 

Also, Stonegate would sometimes have promotions like half price food and drinks etc.

However to claim the offer you had to have a MORE card.

 

Again, if regulars had forgotten their MORE card he would use his for them to get the offers.

I know this doesn't help his cause but in case its relevant I thought I'd offer it up.

 

I have impressed upon him the urgency of this now so if any more info is required just ask and I will get it.

 

Cheers

[ChrisS1968]

Afternoon all,

 

Ive had a stab at a defense for my SIL. Its made up of sections from other threads but not being able to find any similar cases of CAG ive had to kind of wing it. Please have a look and let me have your thoughts if you can. Tell me whats wrong or needs leaving out or editing.

 

1.      The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2.      Paragraph 1 is noted. Whilst employed by the claimant I have held a MORE card to which the claimant refers. |The defendant is however unaware of any of the alleged incidents to which the claimant refers nor has the defendant been given access to any evidence to support the particulars of its claim.

 

3.      Paragraph 1 also claims that payment was taken and withheld for personal gain. This is denied and the defendant is unaware of any incidents to which the claimant refers to.

 

4.      Paragraph 2 is noted. The defendant denies ever engaging in the practice of selling goods on behalf of the claimant and retaining monies for personal gain. Should the claimant believe this to be the case and the claimant has evidence to support their claim then this would surely be a criminal matter and not a civil matter. For this reason the defendant contests all of the particulars of this claim on the grounds of it being vague and speculative.

 

            5. Paragraph claims that the claimant suffered a loss from the defendants actions of £526.95 including the costs of investigating the defendant. As the claimant has only made an accusation                   without providing proof or evidence to the defendant, the defendant therefore denies owing any monies to the Claimant. As the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of  wrongdoing by the defendant. Therefore, the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

             (a) show how and when the Defendant has taken payment for goods on their behalf whilst retaining monies for personal gain by way of proof.

             (b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

 

5.      As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6.      By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Many thanks, Chris

[ChrisS1968]

Cheers DX,

 

As stated, its just a draft and I always knew she wouldn't fly first time. I'll take your comments on board and have another stab. Don't worry, I will leave out number 2!

 

[ChrisS1968]

Morning all,

 

Can we cast an eye over this re-hashed defense please?

 

 

 

1.      The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2.      Paragraph 2 is noted. The claimant has made a broad accusation towards the defendant and cannot seem to decide what exactly they claim the defendant has done. The claimant should be expected to clarify the following.

 

(A) The use of the word stolen would infer that this is a criminal matter and not that of a civil matter. Also, the term unjustly enriched. Again, another term to imply an act of theft has taken place. Should the claimant have evidence to support such a claim then why was it never reported?

 

(B)  The claimant claims that the defendant failed to account. Had this been the case then the claimant needs to clarify how this came even to light?

 

 

(C)  The claimant claims that the defendant committed an act of deceit. The claimant would need to provide specifics to support such an allegation as without them it is again vague and speculative.

 

 

3.      Paragraph 2 is noted. The defendant denies ever engaging in the practice of selling goods on behalf of the claimant and retaining monies for personal gain. Should the claimant believe this to be the case and the claimant has evidence to support their claim then this would surely be a criminal matter and not a civil matter. For this reason, the defendant contests all of the particulars of this claim on the grounds of it being vague and speculative.

 

4.   Paragraph 3 claims that the claimant suffered a loss due to the defendant’s actions of £526.95 including the cost of investigation. As the claimant has only made an accusation without providing proof or evidence to the defendant, the defendant therefore denies owing any monies to the Claimant. As the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of wrongdoing by the defendant, the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how and when the Defendant has taken payment for goods on their behalf whilst retaining monies for personal gain by way of proof.

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for by means of a breakdown of losses and costs.

 

 

 

4.      As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6.      By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by ChrisS1968

[ChrisS1968]

Just had a thought, can I use the fact that my SIL never got a proper letter before action? I'm guessing so as they failed in the pre action protocol dept?

[ChrisS1968]

Hi Andy, thought never entered my head. I was literally just asking. Fully understand

[ChrisS1968]

Just spoke to SIL,

 

He left well before this came about and left because he had another job. This action (or the threat of it) had absolutely no bearing on him leaving, he was leaving anyway. As for him being aware of the audit, he had left before it took place and only found out about it when he bumped into someone that he worked with whilst there who told him about it. He didn't get contacted about if either verbally or in writing whilst he was an employee, only after leaving and around 10 months after leaving.

 

I had an idea this was the case but phoned him to confirm.

Edited December 8, 2020 by ChrisS1968

[ChrisS1968]

Hi Andy,

 

Now you put it like that I guess your right, it wasn't a fair while ago. My apologies......

[ChrisS1968]

HI Andy,

 

Thank you so much, it really is appreciated.

 

Chris

[ChrisS1968]

Will do Andy, thanks again.

 

Chris

[ChrisS1968]

Happy new year all!!

 

My SIL received an EX370 today. I know he needs to sign it and return but what to do with regard to accepting their offer of mediation? By accepting it it becomes pretty much an admission really........

 

For the record, since filing his defense on Dec 21st he has had no further communication from the claimant and they have yet to respond on MCOL. My gut instinct would be to sign it and decline the offer and return but what do I know? If he had made a part admission then its a no brainer but as he's defending the full amount then I would guess he should decline?

 

Chris

EX730.pdf

Edited January 4, 2021 by ChrisS1968

[ChrisS1968]

No Andy, only the EX730 so far.