Car Quay Ltd - Porsche mis described

[Manxman in exile]

What special edition Porsche is it and how has it been modified?

 

I'm assuming a relatively rare SE car of that age would attract quite a premium.  How does the price you paid for it compare to any valuation you can find for it (if any)?

 

Could the supplier at all argue that the modifications enhance the car's value?  This is what they would normally do although I can understand that if you want an original specification special edition they might well detract from the value.  Presumably the car was advertised as in original condition/specification with no mods mentioned?

 

I'd say the modifications are separate from the other faults you list.  If you want an original spec car and that's what it was advertised as, you'll be more than a little annoyed to find it's been modified.  Can the modifications be reversed so as to restore the car to original condition?  Would you be happy with that - if the supplier paid for it?  (And have the modifications affected your ability to insure the car?).

 

The other faults sound positively dangerous to me - but I'm no mechanical expert!  I'm sure the normal advice here would be to exercise the "short-term" right to reject, but of course you have reasons to want to keep the car because of its rarity/scarcity value.

 

I don't think this is a run of the mill case.  You need to consider how much you want to keep the car and at what point it becomes not worth keeping.  How much is special edition status worth to you?  Is it still a special edition if you know it has been modified, even if those mods have been removed or reversed?

 

I think it'll come down to how well you can negotiate with the seller.  On the one hand you want them to fix the faults and the mods, but on the other you don't want them to take it back and refund you.  As BankFodder says, try to maintain as much goodwill with the seller as you can, and try to be non-confrontational.

 

Not much help I'm afraid!

 

[Manxman in exile]

I think that normally the OP would be in a good position here - but what they don't want is the dealer to decide it's more trouble than it's worth to argue the toss over and say: "Here - take your money back and we'll have the car back".  In normal circumstances that might be what the OP wanted - but not here perhaps.

 

If the car does have some special rarity/scarcity value and the OP paid a good (ie low) price for it, the seller may just accept the rejection.  The OP would be weakening their bargaining position somewhat if there was any indication now that they actually wanted to keep the car...

 

Without knowing why this particular model Porsche is so desirable to the OP, it's difficult to know what's best.  Is a car that has been modified but then had the mods removed still the original specification special edition model it once was?

[Manxman in exile]

If they only received it on Friday I wouldn't expect to hear anything from them until the middle of next week at the very earliest*, and probably no sooner than next (ie this coming) Friday.  Personally I think I'd only chase it up if I've heard nothing after a week.  (ie next Monday, not tomorrow).

 

I've not read any reviews of the garage, but if you can get them to put right the faults and possible roadworthiness issues in a way that both you and the garage are happy with then, given you definitely want to keep the car, I think I'd go with it.

 

As BF suggests, I'd forget any arguments about what your father may have known and what you did or did not know.  It has the potential of undermining your credibility and demonstrates the pitfalls of negotiating on behalf of someone else or two people carrying out the same negotiations independently.

 

*If they come back any sooner I'd be concerned it would be with a response you don't like.  I'd want to give them some time and not push too hard.  That's what I'd do anyway...

[Manxman in exile]

Nick - the inspection report you posted from the Porsche specialist garage (the one that had your name and address and was then removed) didn't identify or mention any modifications.  Are they now not an issue for you?

 

If the car has been modified in any way, I'm sure you are aware that most motor insurance policies require that you must notify the insurer of any modifications?

[Manxman in exile]

2 hours ago, nick7602 said:

UPDATE: Dealer collected the car from my home address on Tuesday, I have heard nothing back from the dealer so I sent an enquiry for information regarding the course of action with my car and still heard nothing back, [So it's only two days ago that they collected the car?  It's not very long to be chasing them.]  so I remember the owner telling me they use Zentrum a Porsche specialist in Nottingham for all their warranty work, so I phoned them to find out if they know anything about my car or if its booked in, not booked in nothing?  [Well you don't know they'll be using Zentrum and it is only two days ago.  Maybe they are assessing it themselves first, or waiting to contact Zentrum, or maybe somebody else is looking at it].

 

Apparently the car is just sitting there according to the person I spoke to on the phone  [Sitting where?  Zentrum say they don't know anything about the car but you are saying they have it?  Or are you saying it's sitting there with Car Quay?  How do you know if you've heard nothing back from them?  I'm a bit confused]

 

This is a highly specialist car, and it cant just go to anybody to be fixed

 

I don't have a warm feeling about this, from the formal letter sent to the dealer the request for a realistic work and time schedule for the car hasn't been sent to me either?

 

Im tempted to collect the car tomorrow and release it back to them when they can, progress the car diligently.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Nick

 

Maybe as BankFodder says you might be right to be concerned, but I'd have to say you are seeming a bit impatient to me.  (I know, easy for me to say as I don't know exactly how you are getting on with the dealer who you may think is being awkward).

 

I'm also a bit confused as to what telephone response(s) from the dealer you refer to in your earlier post (#46).  Did they try to telephone you after they received the email (or whatever) you sent last Friday, or was it after the previous letter (or whatever) you sent them?

 

"When we didn't respond by the end of the day and judging by the content and feel of the email sent to us by the end of that day, he became quite annoyed by making statements about the negotiations....which we felt was unfair given that the dealer had offered a reduction in price not me."  Again, I don't understand what is "unfair"?  I'm also wondering whether I'm beginning to understand his annoyance.

 

And sorry - it's also a bit confusing not knowing who is writing your posts.  I'm assuming at least some of them have been written by your father.  I think it's easier for us to follow if it's clear who is posting.  (I wonder if this has also contributed to confusion with the dealer).

 

Sorry - don't want to sound overly-critical but I think you may be jumping the gun a bit in expecting action so quickly.  Or I may be wrong and you may be right to be worried...

Edited March 19, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

Hi Nick

 

Just to clarify - are your concerns about the modifications off the table now?  I think it'd been established earlier in this thread that your father was aware of "the modifications" (whether all of them or not I don't know) and even referred to them in an email exchange with the dealer.  And £3k was knocked off the price.

 

So are the brakes and suspension issues the only outstanding problems now?

 

This whole Covid thing has put a bit of a spanner in the works.  I think(?) the dealer had agreed to look at the car with a view to rectifying the brakes and suspension, but with lockdown impending you both agreed it would be better if the car remained with you until it was over.

 

Unfortunately, because of circumstances beyond your control, the car has had to be used and you've had to have work done to the car.  Were you able to inform or warn the dealer that you were going to have to have this done?

 

I think you are in a position where you simply have to agree some kind of reasonable financial resolution with the dealer.  I don't know exactly how the car was advertised but it's a 13(?) year old car with 111k+ on the clock so I suppose some work on suspension and brakes is to be expected.  Not that that excuses the car being unsafe (if it was) or misdescribed in the advert.

 

I can't really suggest anything else.  It might help if you can simply put down (1) what you thought you were buying (based on the advert and subsequent negotiations - including what your father was told about "modifications" etc) (2) what you've since realised you've bought - based on your driving experience and mechanics' reports, and (3) what you spent to buy it and what you've spent on repairs versus what you think it's worth.  I would do that not for us, but for you to put to the dealer in an attempt to resolve this.

 

I'm afraid I don't know what else to say, except to wait and see if BankFodder has any other suggestions - sorry

[Manxman in exile]

If the specialist report is querying the car's roadworthiness, then that should give you some useful ammo to persuade the dealer that they ought to be footing the bill to rectify it, or at least making some sort of contribution towards it.  (I believe selling an unroadworthy car is a criminal offence - not entirely sure though.  But without understanding better what the report says it's virtually impossible to say - does the report say it's unroadworthy or does it simply say it would drive/handle better if XY and Z was fixed?  ie is it a safety issue or just a driving experience issue?)

 

It's perhaps a pity you didn't inform the dealer you were going to have to have work done on it.  It might make things a bit more difficult if they dispute what work was required or how much it should have cost.

 

Reading back it seems to me that the dealer seems to have acted pretty fairly and reasonably - apart from whether the car was misdescribed originally or not.  I think you are simply going to have to work with them to come up with a solution that works for you both.  I think at the end of the day you (and your father) have to decide what the car is worth to you and weigh that up against what you've spent already and what you may have to spend in the future.  (It's an old car with 111k on the clock and being a special edition Porsche may have been thrashed a bit).  If the value is less than what you end up spending on it, you need to argue that point with the dealer.  But for all I know you may have a bargain.  (I'm not sure what you've got.  I think it was in a post together with a report from a Porsche specialist but that seems to have been deleted - or at least I can't find it.)

 

See if anybody else comes back to the thread.

 

(Just one thing about modifications.  Insurers usually ask if a vehicle has any modifications.  You've mentioned a modified exhaust but I think earlier in the thread you mentioned that a specialist report had identified some engine modifications too.  Have you informed your insurer or checked whether they are modifications your insurer ought to know about?  If you haven't told them and the car is nicked or written off, you run the risk of them refusing to pay out.)

Edited June 24, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

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