Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

27 minutes ago, brassnecked said:

meanwhile a recap as to why we are where we are

 

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/corona/coronavirus-the-nhs-problem/

 

Some very interesting points and perspectives wrapped in that.

 

[tobyjugg2]

Just heard on the News that footballers are going to be tested twice a week in the run up to matches.

Clearly far more important and necessary than front line workers or people who are 'tracked and traced'.

 

So as long as footballers are tested twice a week and politicians families tested whenever they ask, the ****ing world is saved then eh?

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, cjcregg said:

Footballers aren't getting tested because the government or NHS  thinks they're ''more important''. The premier league are paying for the tests privately (as indeed anyone could) as has been widely reported.

 

FGS, I do realise that,

but that they, like Gove, are allowed to use up such a limited resource just because they can afford it is an abomination

 

The point is that they are to be tested twice a week - just in case one presumes,

when my daughter in law - a nurse - has not been tested once in the last three months

 and there is no intention to test the people 'tracked and traced'

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

19 minutes ago, London1971 said:

My wife had a fever and cough, rang 111 on Wednesday. Test arrived via Amazon yesterday afternoon. Send back by courier. She's got an underlying condition, so is a priority.  

 

Hope she quickly and safely gets over it london.

 

any idea of where the infection may have come from?

[tobyjugg2]

My grandson is looking forward to returning to school but I am worried.

 

Lots of reports that children don't tend to have severe symptoms or are largely asymptomatic, but that does NOT mean they aren't infected and aren't transmitting.

 

As transmission is almost certainly at least largely via droplets in sweat, coughs sneezes and even just heavier breathing in close proximity ...

So if children are largely asymptomatic, there would be less of the coughing and sneezing, and hopefully less of temperature induced sweating BUT that does NOT mean they aren't infected and aren't transmitting, even if they dont have a temperature or constant cough.

 

 

Hers a report from Korea, where they opened up and a batch of new cases where traced back to a single asymptomatic person ... who was believed to have come into contact with in the order of 1500 people ..

https://www.newsweek.com/south-korea-hailed-pandemic-response-backtracks-reopening-after-covid-19-cases-jump-1502864

Mind you, Korea will have tested those people ..

 

 

So if we consider schools even as largely healthy places, just a few transmitting cases and those kids going back to households and parents and siblings ....

and those other siblings going to other classes/schools, and those parents going to work/shopping ...

 

and a trace and track approach with no testing ...

 

Look back at that restaurant example higher in the thread.

 

Deeply concerning.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

On a more positive note, it is looking more and more like most people will gain at least some level of immunity once infected, although of course we have no real information on how many of the population that is.

 

Hopefully the antibody tests will prove useful, and widely implemented for as long as necessary.

 

'Old' technology infusions from at least some recovered people also seem to be effective, but will undoubtedly be limited in availability. So politicians and the rich (like footballers) will undoubtedly be OK even if they should get infected now.

 

[tobyjugg2]

Seems that the automated message 14 day self lock down instruction will be compulsory - seemingly based on whatever/whether  the app or politicians decide on your being a high risk of infection or not

... presumably based on how close you been to someone who has self reported, and also not been tested

- with no test for you or them and whether or not you are symptomatic, and as they don't know - whether or not you have already had it ...

... well - unless you happen to be in some group they have decided can have one of the limited number of tests that is ...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-no-symptoms-track-and-trace-nhs-app-self-isolate-two-weeks-a9527476.html

 

 

Well, absolutely no indication they will be able to manage the return of p*** ups at a brewery or pub yet ...

 

Anyone want to explain why the notice doesn't automatically trigger a test?

(for BOTH current infection and antibodies)

 

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, hightail said:

Many are but it is a balance.  Early June may be too soon but when will be right?  Harsh as it is to say, we do know who this virus is killing

 

and there has to come a time when we prioritise the futures of the young over the old. 

 

 

 

With proper testing and management that choice shouldn't be necessary

Even with the issues caused by being asymptomatic

 

The issues with the virus are not going to go away - it seems close to certain that this is going to be the new 'norm

We have to either manage it or accept that many people will die - and set up the system to manage that

- and my opinion is that politicians who make the decisions should be LAST on the list for treatments NOT first.

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

which they can do now, let alone when our rights take a nosedive in Jan

[tobyjugg2]

22 minutes ago, citizenB said:

With Schools usually breaking up for the Summer Holidays in July, I do not see the point of sending youngsters back before September.  Government might just have managed to improve on their safety procedures for staff and youngsters alike. 

 

 

 

Yep

seems a choice between sending kids back just long enough to get infected,

or waiting to see if the following are better options

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/22/uk-covid-19-saliva-test-trialled-5000-key-workers

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41415-020-1594-7

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20067835v1#disqus_thread

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/covid-19-at-home-saliva-test/index.html

 

 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

So, roll playing a politician finding this hard to think through for some reason

 

Which is best

 

* Kids go back to school with sod all to protect them except their youth and resilience, nothing in place to test/identify the illness or treat them,

for just long enough to get infected and spread it through all the homes they go back to for the summer hols

 

* kids break up for summer hols and hopefully get chance to play with friends and socialise over the hols as the new tests prove themselves and are rolled out

.. or stay isolated/ small family/friend clusters if the tests don't.

 

where at least any infections should stay in small clusters.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/nicola-sturgeon-eases-coronavirus-lockdown-rules-in-scotland

[tobyjugg2]

from the horses mouth - rather strange wording BUT:

 

.. It would seem to be an admission that the excess deaths ARE covid deaths, not that there was ever any other reasonable explanation, and as the FT and others have investigated and reported for some time.

 

 

Prof Chris Whitty said:

 

“All-cause mortality has come down at the same time as the Covid deaths have come down

 

and it is now at roughly the rate it is at in an average winter. "

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/21/english-death-rate-now-at-normal-winter-levels-as-coronavirus-deaths-fall

 

 

 

 

 

Back to Priti Awful:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/21/police-spot-checks-enforce-quarantine/

 

"MPs will be asked to support new quarantine measures for all international arrivals which will give police the power to carry out spot checks at homes and impose £1,000 fines."

 

Home Secretary Priti Patel is expected to outline the plans - which will be introduced early next month - at the daily Downing Street briefing later today, a senior Government official confirmed."

 

Of course Steve Baker and the Dunnycan are opposing this on behalf of their still internationally travelling mates.

 

 

Check the wording carefully, its unlikely this would apply to Tory rich mates flying here there and everywhere - so look for other uses

 

 

Wonder if they will be using 'an app' to target those visits?

Edited May 22, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Real question news here Mrs Monster:
Why implement the 14 day quarantine on people coming into the country now rather than 2 months ago or more?

 

Mrs Monster:
Well its quite clear that while we had low level of infections in the early stages, large numbers of people needed to be brought into the country to start to generate herd immunity.

 

Then of course once our R figure was high enough, the quickly implemented testing and lockdown programs of other countries meant the relatively small number of infected people escaping their programs and coming in made little difference.

 

Now of course, given our outstanding management of our program ensuring we are one of the worst hit in the world, with one of the weakest testing programs anywhere, we certainly don't want these foreigners coming in from their opening countries and breathing their healthiness all over our largely empty streets and us then sending them back infected and having them point the finger at us.

 

Now is unquestionably the time for us to claim this is the right time to do this.

 

 

Real question news here Mrs Monster:

Wont that policy mean that any further deterioration can't easily be blamed on foreigners?

 

Mrs Monster:
Darn - didn't think of that

errr We'll review this every three weeks.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

perhaps simply extending the powers given to check on people coming into the country

... to everyone instructed to lock down?

 

With neither paying a darned bit of attention as to whether the compulsory locked down people have had it, do have it,

or are 'naturally largely immune to it - as apparently having been previously infected by a particular prior SARS strain possibly seems to do.

 

 

Children presumably should be exempt as government policy is that they are low enough risk  that can go back to school anyway ....

[tobyjugg2]

If you've never had the app installed, hence never had your details logged or received 'the text' then they can't

 

if the app has sent you 'the message', then whatever you do after that, including throwing the phone into a crusher ....

[tobyjugg2]

Well. it looks it looks like I was wrong and it was and is perfectly OK to go to parents/grandparents homes for them to look after their children/grandchildren

 

but ONLY if you can meet ALL the following criteria:

 

* the visited household contains aged grandparents,

* the visiting household has confirmed COVID symptoms,

* the visited household is more than 200 miles away

* the visitors intend to both enter and stay there

* and most importantly ONLY if you are in a position of political prominence and power

 

 

 

Note

requirements 1-4 can be traded for other criteria

Edited May 23, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

snap HB

 

 

he was allegedly central to creating the lockdown rules

- and they have done NOTHING about it

... at least until caught

 

utter disgrace that Johnson at least and probably the various senior parties presumably including those promoting the rules on TV must have been well aware of this.

Edited May 23, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and Johnson/Cummings are now allegedly claiming

 

that Cummings drove 250 miles from his London home, to a separate building at his parents property, to be isolated and so his sister could drop of groceries outside the door

 

Well even that is a breach of

 

* Leaving your home AT ALL while a family member has symptoms

 

* travelling restrictions from one perfectly adequate home isolation to someone elses home with or without symptoms - exacerbated by having symptoms

 

* being on his elderly parents property when the rest of us were told we couldn't even talk to parents over the garden gate - let alone if we had symptoms

 

 

I'm sure theres many more breaches

 

and Johnson supporting it is beyond the pale .. although quite normal for him.

 

 

If the rules don't apply to the rule makers ...

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

23 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

One early excuse today was childcare, first his parents helping and then his sister and nieces as the story developed. How could that work safely?

Yes, the tale is changing, but its simply wrong in all versions.

 

If the sister (or grandparent - another breach) was to look after the child, then the sister should have fetched the child, not have infected adults crossing the country in breach of requirements for them to stay at home..

If the child stayed with Dastardly and OH, then there was absolutely/utterly no excuse for travel.

 

So, there was no excuse for symptomatic OH and Dastardly to travel - quite the opposite.

 

Oh my, we had no options simply doesn't wash.

 

and with the claims being made - johnson (who must have authorised the press releases) is lying or the police are lying

 

 

 

( another overlap HB  )

Edited May 23, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

As Tory MP's are whipped by Johnson to support Cummings, amidst growing reports of Cummings repeatedly flaunting the lockdown rules which the rest of us were told were instructions with penalties

 

and Cummings and his wife wrote in the Spectator about their 'coronavirus experience' without once mentioning either their child or that they were away from their home in London

 

and while his wife claimed he was bedridden for 10 days, multiple witnesses say they saw him:

 

Out and about outside the property

In the graden with AbbA blaring away

Repeatedly seen miles away from the property at beauty/visitor sites

Back at his parents town after returning to Downing street apparently 'recovered'

etc

etc

etc

 

All this aside from the simple fact he should simply not have left his property in London 'for any reason', let alone be travelling around the country.

 

 

 

Petition:

Dominic Cummings must be sacked

https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-dominic-cummings-must-be-sacked

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

I think i have heard the political advice before, that "once political/media advisors become the news for more than the normal 48 hour news cycle, they have to be removed".  

 

So if Dominic Cummings is still the main news story after today, then I would expect a decision will me made. Probably an apology, followed by a temporary change of role away from Downing Street. 

 

 

 

Yes, and decent people have resigned for far far far less

... and their leaders, including Johnson have said it was right that they should go

 

That there has been delay in this case is already unacceptable.

 

 

That such extreme repeated offences, if true, are not prosecuted is unacceptable, let alone that the person is sacked

.. and any ministers who defined and/or promoted those rules and the penalties that people breaking them should suffer who are actively supporting him should also be sacked (IMO) as the absolute definition of hypocrisy, dual standards and abuse of position if they don't have the common decency to resign.

 

 

That senior people are supporting him seem to me to be rampant examples to everyone who thinks that they have the slightest excuse to ignore the lockdown RULES via some interpretation that could only have have been run through an English/ Emesal translator a few dozen times.

 

 

 

If those defining the laws and rules abuse them when they happen to be inconvenient, then IMO they have absolutely no right whatsoever to be defining or demanding the enforcement of those rules, or be in any position of national responsibility.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, honeybee13 said:

Dual standards is exactly it.

 

The police and crime commissioner for Durham is writing to the chief constable to ask for an investigation into Demonic's movements. Does that mean they can look at his sat nav record?

 

ETA link.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/25/durham-police-chief-calls-for-investigation-into-dominic-cummings

 

 

Haven't they already implemented changes that allow the tracking and tracing, with or without permission, of people who have or are suspected to have, or are suspected to have come in contact with someone who is suspected to have ..  coronavirus ...

 

Meets ALL of those criteria doeesn't he

 

Sure I posted the link earlier in the thread (not the NHSx app - changes to security laws)

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Exactly why the other folk resigned.

 

Not even because they seriously breached the rules like Rasputin,

but that ANY infringement by those in power undermines whole process then, now and going forward

 

As is happening with every hour this goes on.

 

He should have 'resigned' or been sacked back in April when Johnsons office were first asked about it. Not allowed to carry on in his job or his (alleged) breaches.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

I think anything other than resignation, which he shouldn't present to the nation, will be seen by many as that the  rules dont mean sheep dip.

 

Expect a hardening of 'the rules' for everyone else.