NIP - 76 in a 50 motorway zone - short term disqualification

[Andy711351]

Hi Al

 

I have a clean driving license

 

I am 45 yeas old. I am a doctor by profession and have had a clean medical record

 

I received a NIP for doing 76 on 50mph on the motorway.

 

Asking for advice rather than being told off

 

Ive contacted few 'free initial advice solicitors'

 

I gather the options I have are

 

1. plead not guilty ( I don't think Im going to that)

2. Plead guilty and hope for mitigation

 

The offence allegedly carries 6PP and maximum £2500 ( n view of Motorway)

 

I have clean driving license.

 

One firm told me tat they can mitigate for me for my circumstances and get me a 7-56 ay ban which think I can cope with

 

My questions are

 

1. If we ( solicitor and I0) mitigate for this option instead of PP, I think my license will be endorsed for 4 years. This will have an effect o my insurance, but after years have passed by, is it still taken into consideration for insurance purposes. For example I am aware that I money has penalty points, after 4 yeas the are no longer on the license and after4 years one does not need to declare them to the car insurance companies. Is hat he same with a disqualification lasting les than 56 days

 

2. I am a medical professional . Please dont attempt to shame me I unintentionally exceed the limit according to the speed camera and hold my hand up. Will any conviction ( e it 6PP r shot ban) be criminal record? It does have implications because I will have to declare it to my professional body, which I would certainly do. It may cause me to be suspended for 3-6months

 

Finally, I have looked on the Gov website. What is the code for a short term disqualification ban which will appear on the license. am not talking about BA10 an BA30, which I believe are driving whilst disqualified. Rather, asking what code will be displayed on my license if I am disqualified for less than 56 days

 

Your feedback is appreciated

 

 

Many hanks

[Andy711351]

I do apologise for the grammatical errors.

 

I am using my iphone to do this

 

I am on call and posted this in my break

 

Hence please accept my sincere apologies for all the spelling and grammatical errors. Its embarrassing

[Andy711351]

Dear BankFodder

 

I been driving since 1998

 

Had two previous FPN for going over 30 mph. They were 5 years apart so the maximum points I had at anytime was 3 points on my license and I spent them ages ago in 2010

 

I called various firms. the most famous one, who we may all know, who defend footballers and celebs said it may cost upto £8K for pleading no gulty as they are loophole experts

 

Another firm said £900 fixed fee and they will send a barrister with me to mitigate a guilt plea

 

Anyhow many many Thanks for your feedback

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

That's all right. It's all in keeping with the medical culture that no one can understand what they say – either because of the quality of their writing or because of the quality of their grammar.

 

Lol

[Andy711351]

Thanks BankFodder

 

I personally thank anyone who makes a useful comment in my thread.

 

I will keep everyone updated once I hear more because I am aware the police can take upto 6 months to file a court case

[Andy711351]

You appear to be suggesting that a ban would be preferable to you than Points?

 

t

 

Dear Sidewinder

 

First of all many thanks for your comments

 

Secondly I like your username. In my specialty, we use some tubes which have various shapes and one of my favourite ones is called Sidewinder

 

I spoke to one firm last week on a free consultation basis.

 

They asked can cope with upto 56 days ban. I said yes because although I do use my car for work, I have a colleague who works in the same department lives close by and has offered to give me a lift. The legal advice I got was than the ban would last the duration but I wont have 6 points on my license. Your suggestion is than irrespective of the which one I get, I will have a SP50 on my license. I presume after 4 years that will no longer be there. Am I correct?

 

Finally, I know I maybe contradicting myself, but if I am accepting a guilty plea, and if a ban or 6 PP are ultimately the same code and implication with regards to my personal circumstances ( as I have this willing colleague) would I even need to go and mitigate if I am certainly going to end up with one of the two outcomes?

[Andy711351]

Thanks

 

Yes please remove it if it is confusing

[Andy711351]

updated for clarity too

 

Thanking you

[Andy711351]

re: route.

Thankyou Ethel for the useful comment. I will check.

 

Regards

[Andy711351]

I am amazed a professional who is concerned there is so much at stake hasn’t done basic research (& nor, it appears, have the legal professionals you have approached).

Surely their obligation to their client is to find out what their client’s main objective(s) is / are?, and the impact with the GMC appears to be your primary concern.

 

.

Dear Bazza

 

Thanks for your helpful advice .

 

I have just sent back the notice of intended prosecution yesterday, so I will be awaiting the highly likely court summons. The whole thing is very fresh and recent and I have jut started the research. I haven't received any summons or anything further tht the notice as of yet

 

I did call the loophole experts and they did actually advise me to ask GMC anonymously. They warned against identifying myself when asking the GMC at this stage even for advice, though I haven't had any summons. I called the GMC for advice. They refused to give any advice without me identifying.

 

BMA- I was a member with them for 20 years. At some point last year I asked them to help me with an industrial tribunal at work. I was very disappointed with their help and the service so I discontinued my membership

 

MDU- I am a member but they deal with clinical governance issues and patient care and clinical incidences/negligence's but I will ask

[Andy711351]

Thanks Again Bazza

I shall do that and see what the GMC say

[Andy711351]

 

I assume the GMC are as big on honesty as the NMC.

I doubt very much the GMC cares that you were speeding, but they may very well care how you handle it.

honesty is definitely your best policy here.

 

Thanks Kirstyo for the feedback

 

Very reassuring to know

 

Ive sent the NIP form back signed and awaiting the single justice procedure

[Andy711351]

I am not sure if anyone is familiar with the M5 southbound , between junction 5 and 6.

 

Before anyone judges I admit yes I was speeding and will plead guilty

 

I would however appreciate some useful feedback

 

Yesterday in daylight I decided to check where I was caught speeding

 

Just before approaching junction 6 on the M5 southbound maybe 2-3 miles prior to the junction there is a a speed limit sign of 50. There are 2 of these along the stretch. the reason is that there are works on the slip roads, not the motorway itself, so the three lanes are all working. Its not that the motorway has been narrowed to a single lane only.

 

Now I am not 100% which camera flashed me. Just as the exit number 6 comes off the M5, there is the sign indctaing the end of the speed limit. Then a few yards after that, there is the T shaped post with the camera on it. Few yards after the camera theres another sign indicating the end of the speed limit zone

 

I know a camera flashed me because it was at 9 pm. What I am not sure is if it was one before junction 6 or the one after it. If it was the one just after the first end of speed limit sing, then technically speaking was i now still in a 50 or 70mph zone

 

In addition, the stretch of the M5 where this speed limit was imposed was I think only 2 miles. The 2 speed limit signs are on the left hand side where the hard shoulder is. I was in the middle lane, and either I was too tired and didnt see them which would be my fault or its also possible that because I was in the middle lane, the lorries on the slow lane on the left had obscured my view.

 

If the camera caught me was one before the junction 6, then I have no qualms, but f it was the one just after the J6, then right at the separation of J6, the end speed limit sign can be seen.

 

I have sent my NIP back.

 

Will anything be held agaisnt me if I ask the camera office for the photos just to see whch camera caught me. If it will affect my case, then i wont ask for that and just plea guilty

 

Can I use this in mitigation? again I am not saying I wasnt speeding. I was caught at 76 and i respect that but wanted to run these two point by the very helpful CAGGERS

[Andy711351]

Hello

 

its been almost 4 months since my speeding

 

i sent the nip in time and got an acknowledgement of receipt

 

so far i havent heard anything else yet

 

im aware of the 6 months rule for court summons from the daye of the offence

 

Is it 6 months to hear back from the court or have they got 6 months to file it with the court which means i may hear feom the court much longer than 6 months from the daye of the offence ?

 

essentially what is the clear 6 months deadline for please

 

thanks

[Andy711351]

Man in the Middle, thankyou for the reply

 

 

I have now received the SJP notice.

 

I do intend to plead guity and go to court.

 

I have spoken to my line manager, who is a clinical medical professor and the medical director where I work

 

They are both wholly supportive of my case, in the sense that I had stayed behind on the day of the speeding offence, above and beyond my duty of care, in norder to prepare for a meeting the next morning. Normally I would have finished at 5 pm, but just before I left I was asked to fill in for a colleague for the following morning. That meant me staying back to prepare for a meeting . i didn't leave till 9 pm and had to drive 60 miles to home, having been up since 7 am.

 

The team is supportive of me. i will enter my mitigation and both are happy to supply letters of support. Im not sure if these will help in mitigation or not, but do you think the magistrates may take a different view to this? Could they say, this bloke thinks because he is a doctor and has got all this backing thinks he can get away with it? Thats not my intention, rather I want a reduced sentence.

 

I prefer a ban because I do not have a permanent post. i work in this hospital as a locum doctor and go there only once a week and whenever they need me. Rest of the time, Im self employed, but not in the private sector. I do not do private work in private hospitals. The self employment income is also variable.

 

I prefer the ban because i could do even with a 30 day ban. i will use the train etc.. 6 points on the license sounds just more worrying for me because I do drive a fair bit to various hospitals as and when needed, so , not because I am reckless, but sometimes the drive is long , as far as 100 mils each way, and with long hours , despite me having rest at the service stations, occasionally , as in this time, I may not take notice of the speed limits especially at night, and may accidentally go over the limit.  I have been really paranoid since this conviction to the extent that I dont drive more than 60mph on the motorways anymore and I will be very apologetic in my mitigation.

 

 

I will represent myself, though had a quote of £800 from a law firm, who said they will plead guilty but try and work on the mitigation. By paying them, am i gonna save much? are they really going to reduce the fine so much that the £800 they receive will offset any fines I may have to pay?

 

 

BTW, what is the maximum fine ?

 

also, some of my income is pre tax as I am a sole trader so receive the money into my bank account pre tax. I havent had my account done yet because its my first year as a self employed doctor, but what figure do i put on the magistrates form for the income. 

 

Any advice is most appreciated as Im am doing the form and have to post it in the next two weeks.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

On 14/06/2019 at 13:55, Man in the middle said:

 

 

I'm not too clear why you would prefer a ban but if one is considered it will not be 56 days. Seven to fourteen is more likely. If you want to argue for that you must go to court but there is no guarantee that the court will accede to your request as the choice is not yours.

 

I have limited internet access until Monday and if you have any questions I may not see them until then.

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

Man In the Middle

 

many Thanks again for being so kind and helpful

 

[Andy711351]

Hi All

I handed in my plea guilty to the court in person on the 5th of July 2019

 

The clerk receiving my papers said that the hearing date is 1st of August.

 

I explained that I had  ticked the box asking to be there in person

 

He said in that case, its likely that on the 1st of August, the hearing will be adjourned

 

I asked what kind of time frame. he replied its usually with two-three weeks so looking at the full hearing end of August

 

I called today to find out the date. 

 

Its been adjourned to 20/11/2019

 

Im very frustrated and angry

 

Had I known that the delay would be so long, I would have agreed to the hearing proceeding yesterday without my presence with a sentence being passed on. Because the clerk said it will only be a matter of 2-3 weeks after that I stick to my decision to attend the hearing

 

Really frustrated because offence date was 31/1/2019 and have to wait now till 20/11/2019.

 

Whatever sentence, likely 6 months ban, then I really would have much rather preferred it to begin in august rather than start in November

 

These unnecessary delays are just stressing me out 

 

Just to point another thing out

 

I drive alot on the motorway almost daily

 

I have noticed that many a times they have reduced the limit to 40 mph during the daytime, yet there is normal flow of traffic. I can presume it was from the previous night where there was some work being done. The fact that the signs are still there makes me abide by the 40mph and stay in the slow lane, but the number of lorries beeping me almost amounts to harrassment.

 

I feel its ok for the enforcement officers to fine us/take us to court, but yet, when the roadworks are done with at night, these temporary signs should be removed promptly because Im the only one going at 40mph at daytime ( because they are still in place), and theres no raodworks happening during the daytime.That does make it very confusing and dangerous for a driver like me who is now strictly watching every sign and abiding by it

 

 

[Andy711351]

Just now, BazzaS said:

“The slow lane” is telling as to your attitude to driving.

You mean the “lane for normal driving”?

Yes sorry thats what I meant

I am very v careful and watch every road sign and even auto cruise to the speed limit

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

Hi All

 

Thanks so far for all your replies

 

I had my day in court

 

I representeed myself

 

Few things first:

 

1. I was totally surprised that it seemed they hadn't even read through my paperwork.

I originally had sent my reply to the SJPN on the 3rd of July pleading Guilty and wanting to have a hearing.

Therefore my case was allocated for today.

 

The court seemd a bit clueless as they asked me for a copy of my statement of means to which I provided my personal copy that I had taken to them by hand 4 months ago along with a extra page explaining my mitigating circumstances.

 

I sincerely doubt if they had read through any of it.

 

2. I entered the CR

 

The gentleman on the PC in front of the three judges asked for for my name dob etc ( not sure who he is, the secretary of the CR or other role, sorry for my ignorance)at he is.

 

The prosecution read their brief statement.

The gentleman said he acknowledged i had pleaded guity and I was self representing and said ok its your chance to have your say.

 

He said do you plead Guilty and I said yes.

before I even carried on he said something along the lines of this is standard for a fine and 6 points or disqualification , the former which is usually handed out, unless you prefer the other one.

I said if I have a choice then a short term DQ

 

3.

 

The judge then said something and then I was asked to stand up and plea.

 

I stood up, apologised for committing the offence, said Im sorry , remorseful, and disappointed for myself.

 

Explained my clean DL and that this was out of character and lapse of concentration.

 

Was then asked to be seated.

 

Judges had their discussion with each other.

 

the main  judge said the usual  is 6 pp and fine but we wondering why you prefer a ban as opposed to 6PP.

I really had no convincing reason but explained that i respect whatever decision they come up with

 

He explained that most people would rather go for 6PP than a ban and we are wondering whether there are other issues that make you prefer a ban as this is unusual and it seemed they had the perception that a ban would have graver consequences on my insurance etc.

 

I clearly said that there was no underlying issues or reasons for me wanting a ban . (I DID NOT say anything about fear of future totting or anything like that just to be clear to anyone here that make think I had said anything unwise) .

 

Main Judge then had a further discussion and then sentenced me, based on the COPY of the statement of means that was my copy which they didn't seem to have, and hence used my photocopied one off the one I sent them

 

I was fined apprx 800 + 10% surcharge and something to do with donation totalling maybe approx. £1000 + 6PP. he said that I got a discount of £400 which had reduced the fine to  £800 ( na third as it has been mentioned here before)

 

I said thankyou your Honour then left

……………………..

 

I left but inside me left a bit perplexed and maybe this is now just academic and out of my curiosity because I will just take it on the chin and pay the fine, but

 

a. on my statement of means my monthly income was 6200 ( this is variable but I had to estimate it).

 

My total expenses was 3760 per month of which

725 is rent,

1500 is child and ex spouse maintenance

plus other travel and regular bills,

all totalling to 3760.  

 

If I were to do the maths myself, then 6200-3760= 2440 pcm net .

divide this by 4~ 610pw.

Knock a third off for guilty appeal and remorse

~ 403

 

I don't understand on what bases have they come up with the original ~1200 ( discounted to 800) pw if they purely trust my figures of net income and net expenditure which i had entered on the forms?

 

I am not going to contend that but

I genuinely believe that they go through so many cases and they did not seem focussed and the fact that I had to provide them with a COPY of my means income ( which they should have had in their documents ).

Otherwise, based on the form, then its a clear simple calculation of net income minus net expenditure, and then the fine should be on the difference, unless Im wrong

 

The cheapest solicitors had quoted me £900 for a guilty plea saying they will try and get me a short term DQ...etc.

Im glad I self represented because Im not sure whether the solicitors would have been able to reduce the fine, meaning I would have now had to pay out £1000 ( court) + £900 (solicitors). maybe, just maybe they could have benefited me by getting a short DQ, although Im not sure what argument sols would have used.

 

Last thought:

 

given that my presence in the court does not appear to have made any difference in either getting a short term DQ, or a reduction in fine ( apart from the third discount , as they don't seem to have properly addressed my net income and expenditure)

 

I wonder how much worse off I would have been had I taken the chance to enter no guilty plea without any solicitor representation.

I may have not got the 1/3 rd discount from 1200 to the 800, which means 1200 +10% surcharge plus donation + 6PP.

 

Surely a no guilty plea would have therefore cost me an extra 400.

Would I have lost out in any other way, apart from the monetary loss, because I just feel hat going to court etc.. 

had not made any difference and was just a waste of time

 

This is a post mortem analysis but replies from experts in the field may be useful for other drivers who may end up in my position and through a single lapse of concentration on a background of good driving history, get a speeding ticket which warrants a single justice procedure.

 

Given the indifference to the mitigating factors and the 1/3 difference in the possible fine, is it worth taking the risk and defending as non guilty, or are there other consequences from a no guilty plea that I have not been aware of

 

Still a bit angry why I didn't speak up

 

income 6200 pcm

expenses 3760 ( maintenance, accommodation, bills- didn't even mention school fees)

 

they seem to have just taken off 1000

 

therefore 6200-1000= 5200 pcm

 

5200/30= 173.33 per day

 

= 1213 per week ( 173.3 x7)

 

1/3 discount = 808

 

I certainly do not have a net balance of 5200 to spend at the end of the month.

they have overseen my honest legitimate expenses and I feel so harshly done by to be honest

 

In fact, I have been out of permanent work since june 2018, and my quoted figure of 6200 has been from self employment and temporary paid work, and if anything I have overestimated because I did  not want to come across as under reporting

 

feel that the fine has ben harsh,

I can understand the 6PP which I accept but the fine is truly harsh  as I don't have that amount of net money at the end of the month

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

Dear Man in The Middle

 

Actually I should be thanking you

 

I have been impressed by your kindness your professionalism and your prompt reply

 

I very much thankyou for your thorough reading through my case and pin pointing every point

 

I was thinking of appealing the fine aspect of the sentence but you have made everything much clearer and it makes me feel better

 

 

Cant thank you enough for being so helpful and may you be blessed

[Andy711351]

1 hour ago, Man in the middle said:

 

I wouldn't do that if I were you !!!!

Thanks again

 

In that case i will consider the matter closed and done and dusted  and just be careful in the future

 

many thanks for your input