CWD - PAP Letter re old UAE debt now claim form

[AndyOrch]

Ignore ...

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to Financial Legal Issues Forums in view of the claim received.....please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Thread title updated.

 

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

You must acknowledge service by friday 28th Dec .....

 

When you acknowledge service you must tick the box to Contest Jurisdiction.

 

Give me a nudge once you have completed the above and I will advise further.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

You have until the 28th Dec...no rush....a copy of the claimed particulars would be useful though.

 

And the link provided by DX...although this will not be defended in the normal way like other claims.

[AndyOrch]

Is it from Northampton County Court Bulk Centre or from a local county court?...sounds like a manual claim if there are 8 pages of separate particulars.

[AndyOrch]

By the way £10.000 interest and fees added

 

Yes in AED their own currency ....4.70 =£1 Sterling

[AndyOrch]

I want to get my defence sent off

 

Andy you said that this may be a manual claim because of the amount of paper work ( there are 8 pages of particulars)

 

Does that mean I have to send the defence in the post or can I do it online?

 

Your not required to submit a defence.....their claim is out of jurisdiction....you will be submitting an application notice instead.

[AndyOrch]

What do I have to do for that?

 

Sorry new to this

 

So I send AOS and out of jurisdiction ? . Can I do that online ? No as it from CCMCC Salford...so you will have to post it

Is that all I have to do and what do I expect after that ? An application n244 must be submitted within 14 days from the date of acknowledgment of service and supported with evidence as to why the court has no jurisdiction...but we are way off that yet...so its important to get the timing correct on acknowledgment as the 14 days start to tick.

 

Thanks Andy/dx

Dx will send to you

 

Andy

 

[AndyOrch]

Its too early...you have until the 28th to acknowledge service by.......and preparing the application takes time to draft...hopefully I will have time mid week to get it ready...so you can send it all together.

[AndyOrch]

As promised.....

 

Click the following link for the N244...complete on line and print 2 copies...Court/File

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?406095-LEGAL-N244-Application-Notice-**Correct-as-at-Sept-2015**

 

 

On the form do the following...from 3 onwards (intro is self explanatory)

 

3.An order to the dispute the court’s jurisdiction to try the claim and declaring that it has no such jurisdiction or should not exercise any jurisdiction which it may have. And in addition make orders: setting aside the claim form; setting aside service of the claim form; and staying the proceedings. Pursuant to CPR 11 .1 a/b

 

4. No

 

5. Without a Hearing

 

6. 30 Mins /no

 

7. N/A

 

8. District Judge

 

9. 9a N/A

 

10. the Court has no jurisdiction to hear the case. The terms state it is dealt with in accordance with UAE law. A UK Court does not have jurisdiction to hear UAE law cases.There is no Foreign Judgment and therefore no action on the judgment.

 

Complete and sign the above and attach to your acknowledgment of service...dont forget to tick the " Contest Jurisdiction " box

 

There is a fee for the above of £100 without hearing...unless you qualify for exemption of court fees.

[AndyOrch]

If your close to Salford drop it all in and pay at the same time......dont think you can email the acknowledgment of service......you can email the application... and you can also make payment over the phone to them.

 

 

https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/courts/county-court-money-claims-centre-ccmcc

 

Perhaps you can file by email ?

 

e: [email protected]

e-filing enquiries: [email protected]

[AndyOrch]

Not sure what happened to your post?

 

 

Fine email the AOS and attach the N244 as a PDF at the same time.You dont have 14 days to make the application...the application must be submitted within 14 days from the AOS date.

[AndyOrch]

the evidence set out in the box below

[AndyOrch]

I would also post hard copies of the AOS and N244...we have seen emails go adrift and courts stating nothing received...so get proof of postage.

[AndyOrch]

There may not be a fee....if defending the claim....dont worry the court will advise if there is and request it.

[AndyOrch]

Attach a cheque to the N244 hard copy if not already sent..they will return it if no fee required....then your covered both ways

[AndyOrch]

You have already stated the reason within your application n244....

 

10. the Court has no jurisdiction to hear the case. The terms state it is dealt with in accordance with UAE law. A UK Court does not have jurisdiction to hear UAE law cases.There is no Foreign Judgment and therefore no action on the judgment.

 

No need for you to argue it any further..its for the claimant to refute your statement and its reasons why they do have jurisdiction.

 

Some reading for you...

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=A+UK+Court+does+not+have+jurisdiction+to+hear+UAE+law+cases.There+is+no+Foreign+Judgment+and+therefore+no+action+on+the+judgment.&oq=A+UK+Court+does+not+have+jurisdiction+to+hear+UAE+law+cases.There+is+no+Foreign+Judgment+and+therefore+no+action+on+the+judgment.&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[AndyOrch]

No you dont...calm down.You have made all your points within your application reasons and as to why..there is no further evidence to add.The court has told you to just turn up...and turn up you will.

Their terms and conditions may state they have jurisdiction anywhere in the world...possibly to try to enforce a judgment ..not to attain one.....they dont have a judgment.

Post up a copy of this Statement if you get chance Im in need of some light amusement.

[AndyOrch]

Yes I know of it....

The purpose of this MoU is to establish a formal basis for co-operation, including the exchange of information and investigative assistance, to facilitate timely and effective (and in the case of the PRA, judgement-based) supervision, identify risks to the financial system and, where necessary, to address emergency/crisis situations), especially in instances where emergency/crisis situations involve firms with crossborder operations in the DIFC or the United Kingdom.

This MoU does not modify or supersede any laws or regulatory requirements in force in, or applying to, the DIFC or the United Kingdom. This MoU sets forth a statement of intent and accordingly does not create for either Authority any legally enforceable rights or obligations. This MoU does not affect any arrangements under other MoUs. 4. The Authorities acknowledge that they may provide information under this MoU only if permitted or not prevented under applicable laws, regulations and requirements.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/memoranda-of-understanding/pra-and-dubai-financial-services-authority-update

[AndyOrch]

The purpose of this memorandum is to set out the parties’ understanding of the procedures for the enforcement of each party’s money judgments in the other party’s courts. This memorandum is concerned only with judgments requiring a person to pay a sum of money to another person.

They have not got a judgment.....

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/JCO/Documents/Guidance/uk-uae-protocol-with-logos.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Excellent ..I will set a side 2 mins to read it 

[AndyOrch]

You have to ...you have contested it.Go to post #66 all the evidence required is within your application.

Reference to CPR 11 https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part11 no where does it instruct you to submit a witness statement.

3.An order to the dispute the court’s jurisdiction to try the claim and declaring that it has no such jurisdiction or should not exercise any jurisdiction which it may have. And in addition make orders: setting aside the claim form; setting aside service of the claim form; and staying the proceedings. Pursuant to CPR 11 .1 a/b

 

If the court staff are correct what exactly could you put in your statement to inform a District Judge why you contest jurisdiction and what he wont already know about UK Law and UAE Law ?  What evidence would you intend to use ?

[AndyOrch]

" in their WS they are saying a judgement is just a piece of paper and just add needless costs and that they have jurisdiction because it's in their t & c and I signed them. "

Well they will say that they will say Father Christmas is real to convince a court the claim is okay to be decided under UK law...its for the court to decide.

Look this hearing is to determine the above...its not a trial.....you dont need evidence...you have made an application and requested an order be made to contest jurisdiction.....the onus is  on the claimant to convince otherwise...hence their need for a statement. ...a copy of the agreement with its T&Cs and it must state non-exclusive....which means  the bank can still sue in other countries.

Also of use is the following....

https://drukker.co.uk/portfolio/forum-non-conveniens/

The common law doctrine of forum non conveniens (inconvenient forum) allows a court to stay or strike out civil proceedings in England where there is a more appropriate foreign jurisdiction in which the proceedings should be heard and it would not be unjust that the claimant is deprived of their right to trial in England.

Where it is necessary to serve proceedings out of the jurisdiction, permission to do so will only be granted if the court is satisfied that England and Wales is the most appropriate forum in which the claim should be issued. The court will require the claimant to demonstrate that England is the most appropriate forum for the trial of the claim....and why UAE is not ?

If and its a big If you application fails the claim simply proceeds as a normal claim and you will have opportunity to submit a defence with reasons...the claimant may be awarded costs should your application fail.

[AndyOrch]

Also of interest.....Service out of the jurisdiction where permission of the court is required

https://blogs.lexisnexis.co.uk/content/dispute-resolution/service-out-of-the-jurisdiction-where-permission-of-the-court-is-required-bill-kenwright-ltd-v-flash-entertainment

[AndyOrch]

Take a read of the following...two further points on none exclusive terms...

https://www.tamimi.com/law-update-articles/choice-of-law-and-jurisdiction-provisions-in-the-uae/

https://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/8ls85-received-county-court-summons-uk-lawyer-representing.html