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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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First National Bank PPI


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I had a secured First National Bank loan in the late nineties which I believe had PPI.

At the time FNB was owned by Abbey National/ Santander.

 

I submitted a PPI enquiry to Santander but they only came back with details of my old bank account with them.

 

I believe that FNB were purchased by GE Money at some point.

Should I be making my enquiries with them?

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is, as they say, interesting.

 

The reason I made a PPI enquiry to Santander about this was that The Claims Guys sent me a form with First National Bank on it but without any account number. I took out an FNB loan in the very late nineties and paid it back in 2002. I should mention that I used the Claims Guys to make enquiries and I've submitted the resulting three claims myself.

 

To get more details I made an enquiry on the Santander website but they only replied with details of my old current account. When I rang them up, they gave me details First National Bank with an address in Harrow. I'm not sure that there's any business there anymore since there's no website and emails bounce.

 

I subsequently read that Santander sold FNB to GE Money in 2003/4. I have just rung them and they took details of my name, old address and date of birth. They then said that they couldn't find me on their systems. The only way they could proceed is if I supply the account details and proofs of identity.

 

I think I'm being given the runaround here which is unsurprising given that Santander are in the mix.

What I find curious is that the Claims Guys enquiries seem to have found something.

Given that both Santander and FNB effectively still exist albeit the latter is trading under a new name,

 

I find it hard to accept the excuse that they don't have the paperwork particularly when I remember that I had to make a DPA court claim to get Santander to comply with a subject access request over bank charges 10 years ago.

 

Could anyone confirm who I should go after here?

The lack of paperwork is very convenient but I'm unsure who I would actually make a PPI complaint to.

That would at least give me a starting point.

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you need to read all those threads I sent the link about.

 

rung who? GE?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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really that's rare for them to even bother to help at all

they ALWAYS state its nothing to to with them but the broker you used.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

They were actually very nice over the phone taking my details and then checking their systems. They even put me on hold whilst they checked another system. They were really apologetic at the end.

 

However, I'm not buying it. I don't believe for one moment that they don't have records going back decades even if they bought the company from someone else. They would have acquired all of the archives. What I could believe is that the records are on microfiche or on scanned microfiche somewhere.

 

From the threads it's pretty clear that I have to go after GE. I think a subject access request with some additional comments about their obligations in respect of offline records is the way to go.

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  • 1 month later...

Quick Update.

 

I had a reply from GE saying that they had no information about me to respond to my Subject Access Request.

 

Still cashed my £10 cheque though.

 

In the meantime I obtained a copy of the title deeds to my then house using a historic records enquiry at the Land Registry.

 

This listed the legal charge that FNB put in place.

 

I have now obtained a copy of this from the Land Registry.

 

This is a copy of the loan agreement with FNB with an agreement number and shows the amount added for payment protection insurance.

 

I'm sending a copy of this with a FOS PPI complaint form to GE.

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well done

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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use the land registry site make sure its the .gov.uk one mind!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Fscs

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Great advice i got original credit agreement from land registry. FNB have now said PPi was sold by The Mortgage Market north west, and they have gone bust so tuff. Any ideas ?

to start, start a thread on it.

were they regulated/fsa covered

:)

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  • 2 months later...

Finally had a reply from GE.

 

They say that the policy was sold by "Financial Funding" from Blackpool.

Looking at Companies House, they seem to be active but I suspect they're in administration. Has anyone come across them or had any experience of making a claim.

 

I have to say that I have some difficulty in agreeing with GE's assertion.

They bought First National Bank's loan book from Santander.

I took out the loan over the phone and I know it was FNB that I rang rather than any broker.

 

In their letter GE go on to say that they won't respond to any further correspondence and there's no complaint route through the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Any thoughts on where to go from here?

 

Just double checked and Financial Funding were struck off in 2009 but restored to the register for some reason in 2016. I doubt whether there's any resources there to claim against.

 

I think the FSCS may be the route to go down.

 

And the FSCS doesn't work for me as the policy was taken out before 2005 :(

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you need to find out or work out

who were the insurance [PPI] underwriters then go after them.

they would have been regulated

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Thanks dx. Any idea where to start with doing that. All I have is the loan agreement filed with the Land Registry.

It refers to Financial Funding as the brokers but gives no more details than that.

The GE letter gives an address which is how I was able to get to the Companies House record.

 

The only thing I can think of is a SARN to the FF address but I suspect there's not much chance of them having any records for a company that was struck off ten years ago.

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if you search threads here you'll find the info you want.

 

use the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

some like

 

first national bank underwriters

 

post 2 link refers too I expect

 

not got time now meself i'll try later

but the info is here

and we've had results.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks dx. I'm in full search mode.

 

FF were restored to the register by a solicitor acting on behalf of a creditor. This could well be a PPI claim as the firm seem to be heavily involved in that market. I've therefore made an enquiry with them to see what information they might be willing to disclose.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

I've been working my way through the forum and the links provided by dx.

 

There are a couple of underwriter options and Cardiff Pinnacle look like the strongest candidate. I'm trying to work out how to approach them given that literally the only paperwork I have is the credit agreement. I can submit a SARN but it's highly speculative.

 

One thing that has been troubling me is the way that GE are trying to wash their hands of this matter.

 

Most of the PPI claims against them appear to be for home improvements taken out through companies like Zenith.

 

In these cases the claimants contracted with a third party and the finance was provided through First National Bank.

 

When I took out my loan I was a mortgage customer of Santander/ Abbey and I remember ringing up First National Bank using a leaflet that came from Santander/ Abbey with some other mortgage correspondence.

 

FNB was a wholly owned subsidiary of Santander/ Abbey at the time and FNB were based in the same Harrow location as Santander/ Abbey.

 

At no point did I speak to anyone from the Financial Funding brokerage and I think that the first time I saw their name was on the loan agreement.

 

I think this is subtlety different from the majority of cases in the link as I was dealing with FNB as both the seller of the 'product' and as the funder.

 

I am wondering whether there is a way of directly pursuing GE Money as the new owner of the business and the seller of the PPI policy rather than going after the broker/ underwriter.

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