NIP for speeding 65 in 30 zone , dated 28 days after offence - is it valid ?, I read that NIP must be sent wihin 14 days

[timewarp3]

Hi

I have been caught speeding by a van hidden in bushes on a road close to where i work

 

The speeding took place on a wide clear road with good visibility - It has no signs saying 30 & I always thought it was a 40 limit -

Anyway that aside - the road was clear so i gave the car a Blast ! --

and the van obviously got me.

 

The question is does the 14 day rule apply ? - I have read somewhere in past that the NIP must arrive within 14 days of the alleged offence .

 

Hopefully this is correct and i get a second chance , at this speed 65 in 30 i will end up with a short ban and 6 points ... that will kill my insurance and probably my job.

[colin11]

they do have to notify you within 14 days, unless you was stopped at the time and they told you you was being reported for the offence, then the 14 days doesn't apply

[Raykay]

The 14 day limit only applies to the service of a NIP to the registered keeper, there is no time limit for any subsequently issued NIPs.

[timewarp3]

No I was not stopped by the van - this was tucked away in the bushes parked off the road -the kind with the blacked out rear windows and gun or what ever in back behind the glass.

the NIP arrived in the post on Friday some 28 days after I spotted the van and the offence .

[JoeyJoeC]

There's a road near where I live that is like this, it's 40 leading up to it, but the 30 signs are twisted round, and it's hard to notice them anyway as they are quite high up. Police love putting the van out there. It's a clear road too, field either side, much wider than a country lane with good visibility and perfectly straight.

 

Makes you think why they sometimes have national speed limits on country roads that have barely enough room for one car, let alone two.

[Raykay]

the NIP arrived in the post on Friday some 28 days after I spotted the van and the offence .

 

 

Are you the registered keeper of the vehicle, if so, how long for and are all the details on the V5C correct?

[colin11]

If the van is registered to you, at the correct address, then it looks like they could be out of time

 

http://www.motordefenceteam.co.uk/knowledge-Guides/n-i-p.htm

[timewarp3]

There's a road near where I live that is like this, it's 40 leading up to it, but the 30 signs are twisted round, and it's hard to notice them anyway as they are quite high up. Police love putting the van out there. It's a clear road too, field either side, much wider than a country lane with good visibility and perfectly straight.

 

Makes you think why they sometimes have national speed limits on country roads that have barely enough room for one car, let alone two.

 

 

exactly how this road is :- then across the T junction it is half width, overhanging trees, winding , full of pot holes .... this is national speed limit LOL

[timewarp3]

Yes the car is registered to me at my home address ( Correct address).

It does look like the 14 day rule may apply.

 

do we have a motoring expert on here who can confirm this ?

 

If the van is registered to you, at the correct address, then it looks like they could be out of time

 

http://www.motordefenceteam.co.uk/knowledge-Guides/n-i-p.htm

[DragonFly1967]

The wording for serving an NIP is that it must be "dispatched so that it would reach the driver within the 14 days within the ordinary course of the post"

 

See https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q557.htm which says...

 

The purpose of the notice of intended prosecution (NIP) is to inform the potential defendant that he may be prosecuted for the offence he has committed, whilst the incident is still fresh in his memory.

 

When you receive an NIP it does not automatically mean that you are going to face prosecution, it is a warning that you may face prosecution.

 

The NIP must be served on the driver or registered keeper within 14 days of the offence otherwise the offence cannot proceed at court. If the details of the driver are not known, then it is sent to the registered keeper. In either case, so long it arrives at the relevant address within the time limit the notice is valid.

 

If the registered keeper has changed address/not informed DVLA etc., as long as the NIP arrived at the address on record for the registered keeper within 14 days, it is still valid. The registered keeper then has an obligation to identify the driver.

 

The driver, may then receive further paperwork in due course, but that is not to be confused with the document that is legally required to be sent within the 14 days.

 

NIPs can also be issued verbally to the driver at the time of the offence or alternatively you could receive a court summons through the post for the alleged offence within the 14 days.

 

Small mistakes on the notice do not render it ineffective unless it would mislead the potential defendant.

 

A notice shall be deemed to have been served on a person if it was posted to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him. The posted NIP is deemed to be served until the contrary is shown.

 

Is there a date on the NIP of when it was sent, or printed? Or a postmark on the envelope? If you can prove that they've not sent it in time to reach you within 14 days, they've had it as far as prosecuting you. If you can't prove that they sent it late, you're a bit stuffed I'm afraid, as they'll just assume that you did receive it in time.

[timewarp3]

Yes the date on their NIP is 26 August & they list the offence as 29th July

 

This is 27/28 days apart so the NIP is outside the 14 days ?

 

The wording for serving an NIP is that it must be "dispatched so that it would reach the driver within the 14 days within the ordinary course of the post"

 

See https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q557.htm which says...

 

 

 

Is there a date on the NIP of when it was sent, or printed? Or a postmark on the envelope? If you can prove that they've not sent it in time to reach you within 14 days, they've had it as far as prosecuting you. If you can't prove that they sent it late, you're a bit stuffed I'm afraid, as they'll just assume that you did receive it in time.

[DragonFly1967]

Yes the date on their NIP is 26 August & they list the offence as 29th July

 

This is 27/28 days apart so the NIP is outside the 14 days ?

 

Unless they've caught you a second time As they're more than 14 days apart, they've shot themselves in the foot.

 

 

I'm fairly sure that you still have to respond to it, naming the driver etc, as not doing so would be a separate offence, however, I'd also include a covering letter to the head of the Safety $camera team, such as...

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam.,

 

Ref: Notice of Intended Prosecution. Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I received your letter dated 26th August 2014, the references for which are detailed above. I have enclosed a completed copy of the Notice as required by law and for ease of cross-reference.

 

You have written to me because I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle mentioned in your Notice. My address is correct as per the details at DVLA, and the vehicle was not a Company car, and was neither hired nor borrowed.

 

No Officer spoke to me at the time of the alleged offence, and no accident took place. Also, no Police Constable has spoken with me at or near the time and place detailed in your Notice. The written Notice is the first indication from you of any intention to prosecute.

 

Your Notice details the alleged offence as having occurred at XX:XXhrs on 29th July 2014. The Notice is dated 26th August 2014, and it came to me by post, received on ?????????.

 

Excluding the day of the alleged offence, this was the 27th day from the date detailed in your Notice.

 

Please note that the Notice cannot be acted upon as it is time-expired. For this Notice to have been valid, it should have been received by me within 14 days of the alleged offence see [Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside [2009] EWHC 2924 (Admin)].

 

I therefore ask that you acknowledge that no further action shall be taken in relation to this alleged offence.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Sign

 

 

Registered Keeper

 

 

 

That should cover it

[Raykay]

The wording for serving an NIP is that it must be "dispatched so that it would reach the driver within the 14 days within the ordinary course of the post"

.

 

Not quite, the requirement is that it is "served" within 14 days. if it is not served within the 14 days, even if it was posted that would be expected to be delivered in the normal course of post within the 14 days, it is not valid.

 

See the High Court case of Gidden v C.C. Humberside.

[Michael Browne]

Dear Sir

 

I enclose the NIP completed in compliance with s172 RTA 1988.

 

The date of the alleged offence is 29th July 2014. The NIP is dated 26th August 2014, and was received by me on XX August 2014..

 

I understand that NIP's should be served within 14 days of the offence. I refer you to the decision in Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside

(http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html)

 

I would, therefore, request that the NIP be cancelled on the grounds that it was served out of time.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Make sure you make photocopies of the NIP before returning it

[timewarp3]

Ok

I will respond, as such.

Thank you for your kind help and replies.

Fingers crossed.

 

Make sure you make photocopies of the NIP before returning it

[Bandit127]

See how you go with this but I would certainly be putting money aside for a solicitor right now.

 

If this gets to court and you are found guilty, 65 in a 30 will be considered for a ban. You might get away with 5 or 6 points if you can put up some mitigation. You will have to appear, guilty by post may be offered but it will not be accepted.

[timewarp3]

if I read the legislation,case law and advice given on here correctly - the NIP is issued outside the 14day term allowed - so they cannot proceed in court.

 

 

See how you go with this but I would certainly be putting money aside for a solicitor right now.

 

If this gets to court and you are found guilty, 65 in a 30 will be considered for a ban. You might get away with 5 or 6 points if you can put up some mitigation. You will have to appear, guilty by post may be offered but it will not be accepted.

[Raykay]

With the NIP you have being so long after the offence, it may be a 'reminder' and the original NIP that was sent to be served within the 14 days, was lost in the post.

[timewarp3]

NIP reminders - Say reminder on them

 

( I Hope )

 

 

With the NIP you have being so long after the offence, it may be a 'reminder' and the original NIP that was sent to be served within the 14 days, was lost in the post.

[DragonFly1967]

A "reminder" is usually in the form of a letter saying something along the lines of "OI! You've not returned the NIP we sent you and we're really annoyed about it"

 

 

Of course, no one here, unless they've had one recently, can guarantee that they still do this, or if the force in question for you does it. All you can really do is write back and see what happens.

[Raykay]

NIP reminders - Say reminder on them

 

( I Hope )

 

Some apparently do not, yours is not the first case I have seen on forums where the first the person knows about it is when a NIP arrives about a month late, and when questioned, the SCP produce a copy of the NIP that was sent that would normally have been served within the 14 days.

[timewarp3]

Yes I have had reminders before ,

So it looks like I am lucky this time.

 

Lesson learned, 30 miles an hour from now on.