Advice needed - I think the car I have just swapped for has outstanding finance.

[ctid1987]

Hello again!

 

I'm back with more issues again! haha.

 

I swapped a 2006 BMW 330d that was a little worse for wear for a 2007 Seat Leon FR, using a website called Swapz.

 

I obviously HPI'd it before hand and all come back clear, and as the cars where worth a similar value, and the BMW needed a little mechanical work I thought I got a good deal...

 

Until someone messaged me on Facebook saying they had seen my car on a Seat Leon Page I had posted on, and they where going to swap for it but didn't as it had outstanding finance... I was quite blunt with them thinking they where taking the mick and said I'd HPI'd it and that all was fine. I even copied a screenshot of the Clear HPI into the conversation, and it was then I realised it didn't show finance details!!

 

I then paid for a premium check with a different company, and sure enough it showed that it might have outstanding finance as the plate had been changed (it has a private one on it now)

 

The chap who informed me was a motor trader who explained he had seen this before, and assumed it was a logbook loan. People take out logbook loans, then put the car on a private plate making it harder to trace before selling it on...

 

Anyway... The HPI check I done told me to ring them for more info, so I did. The chap on the phone explained a little more, and then got in touch with the finance company to get some more info.

 

It turns out the Company is Santander - and that the best advice is to go back to the person I got the car from, which isn't possible (he wasn't actually registered keeper on V5 as hadn't had it long!!)

The Finance was taken out in July 2013, and I am the 3rd owner since then!!

 

So, now what?

 

The V5 is currently with DVLA, and the car will be registered to me at my home address any day now. Santander will obviously come looking for it, but where do I stand legally?

 

I suppose first port of call is to find out what type of finance is held against the car, and how much outstanding??

 

Can anyone advise please?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Tony.

[ashmk]

You might want to sit down.

 

Legally the car belongs to the finance company and they can and will be looking to take it back.

 

Your options would be to get your swapped car back and give this other person back that car or when the finance company contact you, and they will, you can tell them what has happened and see if they will offer you a settlement to buy the car from them

 

Sadly whatever happens will end with you losing the car or paying to keep it.

[theoldrouge]

youre sure its Santander? this would be HP not LBL

[theoldrouge]

it could even be that its just been recorded that there is a loan which is not secured by

 

the car as satans do mark the HPI files when they grant a s77 loan

[theoldrouge]

Personal Loan

 

The lender has no claim on or interest in the vehicle but has registered the existence of a personal loan as part of the Governments Responsible Lending drive. If you are concerned because the vehicle you are looking at has this type of finance, you should seek clarification from the lender and the seller of the vehicle

 

from hpi site

[theoldrouge]

so your first job is to find out what type of finance

 

if it turns out to be a personal loan, then nothing to worry about title has passed to you

[ctid1987]

Ok, thanks for the replies.

 

Yes Santander is what I was told - phone number is 0844 335 1572, but they are now closed; only open monday-fri 9am-5pm.

 

From what the guy at the HPI place said the problem here is that Santander will only want to discuss the account with the person who owes money. Then again, in their eyes - I am the registered owner so really they want to discuss it with me as I have 'their' car! haha.

 

I will phone them monday, but need to know the best way to go about it - should I phone and pretend to be a potential buyer, or shall I be honest and say I've just bought it but try to give as little info as possible? Any pointers please?

[theoldrouge]

may as well be honest, since the car is reg in your name and address anyway, just be a little cautious

[ctid1987]

Thanks, will give them a call in a moment and post back here with the outcome.

[ctid1987]

Great, they wont divulge information with me at all, just admitted there is finance outstanding...

 

They have told me they will send a questionnaire out in the post to me for me to fill out and send back. (I gave them my fathers address to bide time)

 

But they WONT tell me the type or amount of finance outstanding.

 

What do I do next? I really need to find out the type of finance, do you know how I can go about obtaining this info?

[theoldrouge]

Did you do the full hpi check?

[theoldrouge]

With hpi.co.uk. with guarantee?

[theoldrouge]

Example-

Alert Details

 

Outstanding finance

Recorded againstVRM

DescriptionVW GOLF MATCH

Date01/01/2014

Finance houseSEAFORD FINANCE

Finance house telephone01323 278345

Agreement referenceT3FF63E6R6

Agreement typePersonal Loan

The lender has no claim on or interest in the vehicle but has registered the existence of a personal loan as part of the Governments Responsible Lending drive. If you are concerned because the vehicle you are looking at has this type of finance, you should seek clarification from seller of the vehicle.

[ctid1987]

First one was with Total Car Check, this was prior to getting the vehicle, and obviously doesn't show Finance details (which I didn't know at the time!!!!)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52850[/ATTACH]

 

 

Second one I done was with My Car Check which does show finance!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52849[/ATTACH]

[ctid1987]

But because it shows a plate change, it doesn't have details of the finance showing, and instead I had to phone them to confirm.

 

I'll do the Genuine HPI one now.

[ctid1987]

Ok I've got pretty much the info you've put down above from phoning the HPI company I used the second time.

 

0844 335 1572

Santander

Jun 2013

Conditional sale

 

I have no idea what a conditional sale is, but I'm about to spend a few hours researching thats for sure!!

[ctid1987]

This looks promising -

 

"Where a motor vehicle is subject to an HP or conditional sale agreement, while the vendor does not own it and has no right to sell it, a private purchaser who buys the car in good faith without notice of the HP or conditional sale agreement obtains good title to it. He does so under section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964."

[theoldrouge]

hp, santander are the vehicles owners

[theoldrouge]

This looks promising -

 

"Where a motor vehicle is subject to an HP or conditional sale agreement, while the vendor does not own it and has no right to sell it, a private purchaser who buys the car in good faith without notice of the HP or conditional sale agreement obtains good title to it. He does so under section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964."

Yes indeed just about to come to that

[theoldrouge]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1964/53/section/27

[theoldrouge]

what you would need to do initially, on receipt of Santanders form,

is to write to them with

 

the name and address of the person you purchased the car from

date purchased

how much you paid

proof or receipt of purchase

 

and explain that you bought the car in good faith

[ctid1987]

hp, santander are the vehicles owners

 

But according to Section 27 I now hold good title to it as I was unaware of the HP or Conditional Sale before the Swap/Sale.

 

Thanks for your help on this - quite a worrying thing to ponder over at the moment the fact that they could just come and try to repossess a car that owes me a good few grand - as I am not in any position to lose even £100 at the moment!!

 

What's my next port of call, hang on for the questionnaire they are supposedly sending me?

[theoldrouge]

What's my next port of call, hang on for the questionnaire they are supposedly sending me? Yes as far as santander are concerned

 

you would have reasonable cause to request info from the DVLA on the current keeper of your previous car

this may help in tracing the person who defrauded you https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/206691/V888.pdf

 

 

[theoldrouge]

the problem you are going to come up against is you swapped the car rather than purchased it.

 

You are going to have to give Santander as much info as you can concerning the guilty party here.

 

Use the DVLA form as above, investigate as much as you can

[ctid1987]

Thanks for your help theoldrouge.

 

The problem I face here is the person I swapped the car with (who I have all details of with receipt) was not the registered keeper on the V5C. I have a saved log of all of the convo's on the Swapz website regarding the swap, plus correspondence in text from my phone.

 

The car has also changed hands a number of times since the finance was taken out from what the guy at the HPI place told me...

 

Jun 2013 - Finance taken out.

Nov 2013 - Change of keeper.

May 2014 - Change of keeper.

circa July 2014 - The guy I swapped with got the vehicle but didn't change log book over.

August 2014 - Change of keeper to myself.

 

 

I'll get that form sent off to the DVLA asap, thanks for that.