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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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      Many thanks 
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Demon Tweeks - New Wheels Falling Off!


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Evening all, I hope this is the right forum..

 

A few weeks ago I bought a new set of motorsport wheels & tyres for my track day car from Demon Tweeks (DT). I fitted them about 2 weeks after they arrived on 4th June for a track day at Oulton Park near Manchester, and had problems all day with the wheels (all four!) vibrating loose which basically ruined my whole day and wasted track day fee plus the fuel from Essex and a hotel for the night.

 

I'm a chassis & suspension systems engineer for a major OEM and advanced DIY mechanic, so I was able to diagnose the problem as a failure of the plastic adaptor rings supplied with the wheels. (They adapt the centre bore size to fit my particular make & model. The failure was that all 4 - especially the front - had stretched and become a sloppy fit on the hub centre spigot.)

 

I called DT first thing in the morning from work to explain the problem, and requested that the wheels be replaced for a new set of a make that doesn't use plastic adaptors. (There is popular opinion that these rings often fail with the heat of the brakes when subject to track use) This was refused, and I was told the wheels would have to be returned for inspection before anything could be done about a refund.

 

DT arranged to have the wheels sent back to Team Dynamics (who are the manufacturer) for inspection, and after chasing up DT a few days later I was told that my wheels were ok, and that the wrong spigot rings had been supplied; I would get my wheels back with a new set of rings in the correct size. So, imagine my surprise today when I check the "new" rings against one of the old ones they accidentally sent back in one of the wheels, to find that they were exactly the same!

 

I don't trust these wheels on my car. I'm very very concerned that the next time I try to use them (they are a spare set for track use only) they will come loose, or even fall off entirely! My next track event is at the Nurburgring in Germany, so as you can imagine I am very reluctant to drive all that way and have a failure!

 

What can I do? I can't believe they have lied to me and basically done absolutely nothing to solve the problem! Am I within my rights to ask them to be exchanged for a different set of wheels that I trust will stay on the car? I have 2 weeks until I board the ferry for Germany, so I have to get it sorted out as soon as possible!

 

Appreciate that this is a long read and a complicated problem.. thank you for taking the time to read & help!

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Hi, thank you for the useful links! I paid on debit card. I have sent them an email this morning as advised, requesting a full refund and resolution today, so I will let you know how that goes.

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I got an automated email reply saying it can take up to 48 hours to respond, so gave them a quick call to ask that it is dealt with asap. The guy read my email and said that they will need to have the wheels back for inspection before they can refund me. I told him that they had already been back for inspection and were returned to me, so what point would there be in sending them back again. I told him about the SoGA and that I am entitled to a refund from them, not the supplier, but he said this was wrong. He said he will call the manufacturer and find out whether they will inspect again, what their inspection process is, and will get back to me via email. Am I entitled to a charge-back in this situation?

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You've already been through the pre-Chargeback protocol, the Wheels have been back once and have come back faulty again. Do you want that cycle to be repeated?

 

Contact (phone them if you want, don't take no for an answer) your Card Provider, also find yourself another supplier.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

I got an automated email reply saying it can take up to 48 hours to respond, so gave them a quick call to ask that it is dealt with asap. The guy read my email and said that they will need to have the wheels back for inspection before they can refund me. I told him that they had already been back for inspection and were returned to me, so what point would there be in sending them back again. I told him about the SoGA and that I am entitled to a refund from them, not the supplier, but he said this was wrong. He said he will call the manufacturer and find out whether they will inspect again, what their inspection process is, and will get back to me via email. Am I entitled to a charge-back in this situation?
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Thanks. :)

 

I've called my bank and started the chargeback process, but they said it can take up to 10 days and they may well need to investigate further.

 

Is it worth telling the retailer that I have started the chargeback process? I assume they'll need to be informed so that I can return the wheels to them, but should I wait first? I'm anxious to get this sorted as I have 11 days until my next event.

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It's not a straightforward process, I'm sure your Card Provider will contact the Retailer, you've already complained to the Retailer, you've even given them an opportunity to resolve the issue, they failed in that regard. Can you phone various retailers, explain your predicament, see if you can 'buy now pay later', once you get a refund.

 

Thanks. :)

 

I've called my bank and started the chargeback process, but they said it can take up to 10 days and they may well need to investigate further.

 

Is it worth telling the retailer that I have started the chargeback process? I assume they'll need to be informed so that I can return the wheels to them, but should I wait first? I'm anxious to get this sorted as I have 11 days until my next event.

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I'd be uncomfortable doing that, I think. I'll try and source a set of replacement wheels in the meantime, as I doubt it'll be resolved in time for my trip. If it means paying up front before this is resolved then I'm happier to take that risk than to take these wheels with me!

 

I was sent a useful picture from someone who has had similar problems to demonstrate the issue:

 

7FE094E5-EDBA-42DC-BEE4-656F27E07879-4846-00000336DE612BB7_zpsc806d7ba.jpg

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Let us know what happens and if you need more input. When I said 'Buy Now Pay Later' it does have an established meaning in retail, I just meant, can they provide the Wheels, but invoice you, you pay the invoice at a later date.

 

It's best to stay safe, the ones sold aren't 'fit for purpose'.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good morning! Just to update this, Demon Tweeks (the distributor) arranged for Rimstock (Team Dynamics wheel supplier) to machine a set of aluminium spigot rings as a "goodwill gesture" and send them out to me in time for my trip to Germany.

 

However, when I test-fitted the new rings in the wheels I found the fit was even worse than the failed plastic ones! So I had to spend 4-5 hours of my Saturday, the afternoon before I left, machining a new set of rings myself that would fit properly.

 

The wheels survived the trip down there, but on the track day I had very severe vibration above ~90mph - which, given the history of this problem, was very unsettling! Thankfully there was an English-speaking motorsport tyre fitter at the event, so I asked him to check the wheel balance. The front wheels were found to be 40g out per side and the rears 15g per side, which I was told was absolutely unacceptable for a new set of wheels and tyres! So 30EUR later I had them balanced and all of the problems went away.

 

I'm going to seek compensation from DT of £112 (4h x £20ph labour + £10 materials + £22 balancing) because I'm pretty disgusted that I had to do any of these things on a new set of wheels. Could someone please advise how I go about this? I have never applied for compensation before so have no idea how the process starts!

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Hi Mundane-o

 

Did you tell DT that there were issues with the tyres, before the costs involved to rectify the problem, if you didn't it might prove to be difficult. They might say that they should of been given an opportunity to rectify the problem.

 

You could send them a letter, Recorded Delivery expaining what's happened and ask for them to compensate you. If they don't compenate you, take them to court.

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/law_w/law_legal_system_e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm

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Hi, I didn't get a chance, as I was in Germany in the middle of a track event so had to rectify the problem there and then or face wasting £550 on the event, plus travel and accommodation. I could fairly easily get in touch with the tyre fitter and ask him for confirmation or an invoice, as he was there as part of the event.

 

It's the same story for the machining work.. I received the machined parts on the Friday afternoon so only had Saturday to test fit them. Going by my previous encounters with DT customer services it'd be impossible to have them fixed in time.

 

Could I also claim compensation on the wasted track day I had with the first instance of the problem? That was a £250 event plus fuel and hotel overnight that went completely down the toilet with all the problems I had.

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Hi Mundame-o

 

Write to them, see what they offer, also update your Card Provider for any additional claims that you wish to make.

 

Hi, I didn't get a chance, as I was in Germany in the middle of a track event so had to rectify the problem there and then or face wasting £550 on the event, plus travel and accommodation. I could fairly easily get in touch with the tyre fitter and ask him for confirmation or an invoice, as he was there as part of the event.

 

It's the same story for the machining work.. I received the machined parts on the Friday afternoon so only had Saturday to test fit them. Going by my previous encounters with DT customer services it'd be impossible to have them fixed in time.

 

Could I also claim compensation on the wasted track day I had with the first instance of the problem? That was a £250 event plus fuel and hotel overnight that went completely down the toilet with all the problems I had.

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Thanks for the help, I have written to them and will let you know how it progresses. I requested that they only respond via email and gave a week's response time before I open up a case with SCC.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

An update on this:

 

I got a reply to my email refusing to acknowledge unless I submitted receipts, so sent those over, and after a 2 week wait I sent a short reminder saying I intended to go to SCC if it wasn't resolved in a week's time.

 

I got a reply last Thursday (14th) offering partial compensation and (as I was on holiday) have replied this morning.

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the purchase of wheels and tyres from us.

 

Whilst we recognise that there have been issues with your purchase we cannot agree that the products supplied are unfit for the purpose you have put them to however, in order to keep a valued customer happy, we are prepared to consider your request for compensation in part.

 

In the case of the claim for fabricating alternative metallic rings to those supplied by us we cannot agree to foot the bill for your time as this was a conscious decision on your part and you undertook the work in the belief that the items supplied were not suitable. In addition, the rebalancing you undertook was done without contacting us first in order for us to try to resolve the problem and thereby allowing us to minimise your and our subsequent losses.

 

In light of the problems you have experienced and, purely as a gesture of goodwill, we are prepared to offer the balance of your claim in full and final settlement. If you confirm this is agreeable, in writing/email, in the next 7 days I will organise a cheque for the balance of the itemised receipts you have sent us, totalling £315, to be sent by return.

 

And I have responded with:

 

Thank you for acknowledging that this is a serious issue for me, and for the offer of partial compensation.

 

However, the new rings I had machined were not just done on a whim: the rings supplied did not fit the wheels or hubs properly. Firstly, the fit was loose on both the hub spigot and in the wheel bore, with up to 1mm of total slack, which would have caused vibration issues in itself. Secondly, the depth of the chamfer was incorrect and so the rings protruded from the wheel face by up to 0.7mm, which would have caused warping of the wheel or hub faces when the wheel bolts were tightened and possible vibration issues.

 

The material I used was bought for another job, so needed to be replaced, and this had to be done the afternoon before I left for Germany, so I would not have wasted my time unless absolutely necessary.

 

With regards to the wheel balancing, I had no opportunity to contact you for assistance as I was in the middle of a very expensive track day (£550 not including travel & accommodation) and time was ticking away. Being in a foreign country, attempting to sort the problem would have been nigh on impossible within an acceptable amount of time and I would likely be pushing for compensation for that, too.

 

With these points in mind I will still be pressing for compensation in full. I’ll allow an extension of one week before I open a claim. As a gesture of goodwill from myself, if this is accepted then I will continue to shop at Demon Tweeks; if not, I will certainly be taking my personal and business custom elsewhere.

 

I'm aware (thanks to these forums) that "a gesture of goodwill" is typically b/s used when a company knows they're in the wrong but want to try and palm you off with less than they owe, so have pushed again for the amount in full. I'll let you know whether they respond positively or whether I have to go through the courts. :)

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I had a reply today increasing their offer to £412.50, but refusing to cover the labour I had billed them for machining the parts required to fit the wheels. Their justification was that they don't consider it an out of pocket expense, as I have charged for my own hours.

 

I'm half tempted to just accept, but if these were customer parts I would have charged £35 per hour. It's time I should have spent preparing for my trip to Germany (as a result I was still packing at 2am) and it also consumed machine and tool wear, which isn't cheap.

 

What should I do? I am half tempted to just accept and get it over with, as going through court would be frustrating, but I also feel a bit put out that they refuse to acknowledge that my labour does actually cost me money.

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It is a result, if it goes to court, it becomes a bit of a lottery. You might need to do business with these people again. If you accept it will show goodwill on your part, if you want to be cheeky state that you'll accept £412.50 but you want 20% off your next order.

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