me and my landlords

[raydetinu]

suggest you stop worrying until something further happens, then get back in touch and we can advise further.

you appear to have made your mind up about what you are going to do, so no need to keep going around in circles.

if you want another view on things speak to shelter, very good at these things.

[confusedbunny]

UPDATE: I spoke to a court clerk, who advised me to go to my local police station regarding the LL obtaining my deposit deceptively/fraudulently......The police have said this is a criminal matter, and advised me to re-contact them when the LL issues a S8 G8 for eviction......also to contact trading standards as the LL is still using the LTD company to obtain money although it was dissolved 5 months PREVIOUS to recieving the money, with no re-course of getting it returned to me.

 

My frustration is and i fully understand, that despite my findings of this fraudulant activity, I have no way of disputing a S8,G8 (technically, it should only be a S8,G10) to be fair....

 

The LL has threatened me with bailiffs already,can he instruct bailiffs for rent arrears? and if so, can they take my goods? I assumed i make payment arrangements via the court for the debt (non-priority debt) when the time comes!?

[LaughingGirl]

You're miles off bailiffs removing goods yet. he'd have to obtain a court judgement against you, you'd have to not pay it and then he'd have to apply and pay for enforcement action. if you were still in the property at the date of court ordered eviction, bailiffs would attend, but not to remove goods.

[confusedbunny]

UPDATE: I sent a letter to mydeposits, to state that my deposit was protected using false information....I recieved a response to state that my deposit protection is void, the LL is going to be investigated but due to data protection i will not know the outcome and that the deposit was deposited 9 weeks after recieving it and not within the required time.....I realise I am only protected against any S21 notice being served due to this and will be void, think i am past that being served now........

 

I also realise that with the deposit being now void, it will not help in my defence when & if i am served with a S8, but can I mention this anyway in any defence?

[raydetinu]

you van mention what you like but doubt that would influence the hearing as it would be decided on the facts of rent owing.

[confusedbunny]

UPDATE:

 

Further to recieving a notice (thread comment 41 on here), which i understand is invalid, I was waiting for the LL to issue me with a two week notice that he will be applying to the court, but this never came.....but i have now recieved a "accelarated procedure" documents.....its doesnt state about rent aarrears,S8,rent statements etc....

 

1.Am i right in thinking that he wants to avoid another type of court process?

 

2.Shouldnt i have recieved 2 weeks notice of all this?

 

3. I havent recieved a rent statement either

 

4.Q7 of his claim, he has failed to complete the info about the deposit as he is fully aware and i am too that the deposit scheme wrote to us both (assuming, but me anyway) that the deposit is unprotected/cancelled assuming due to their investigation into my letter regarding the deposit being protected under a LTD compnay that ceased trading 7 months previous to me giving it to the LL (LL hasnt given me notice of re-protection), the defence form asks me if Q7 is correct? Its not....

 

5. Will the LL see a copy of my defence form?

 

6.Is there any way I can request a hearing?

 

7. I am 9 weeks in arrears, and do i add one month owing from last week, when the TA ended and i am still in occupation and became periiodic? (I pay monthly, not weekly)

 

8. If the notice i was served (in thread comment 41) in invalid as its not an official S21, that LL required possession at end of tenancy, and the "notice" served is being used as evidence in claim form, can i dispute this on my defence form as invalid?

 

I am 9 weeks in arrears at present.....and on a periodic tenancy now.....I realise fully that the deposit issue is probally trivial/irrelevent now due to my arrears being over 8 weeks, but if i manage to get the arrears under 8 weeks this will be relevent, will it not?

Edited December 22, 2012 by confusedbunny

[raydetinu]

yes LL will see any defence satements,

so what are the grounds he is claiming for possesion?

get rent to below 2 months that may help, however being consistantly late or behind over a long period could be grounds enough for an S8.

[confusedbunny]

yes LL will see any defence satements,

so what are the grounds he is claiming for possesion?

get rent to below 2 months that may help, however being consistantly late or behind over a long period could be grounds enough for an S8.

 

Thank you for your reply, the claim form in a N5B, no mention of S8 or any grounds or reasons, just states he wants possession back as tenancy expired! Aso Q7 asks details about the appropriate S21 served to me, he states he served it (the letter I mentioned in this thread,No 41 which i understand is invalid) and then within Q7 it asks for clarification of S21 served, dates etc but LL has not filled it in as no valid S21 was served to me and niether is my deposit protected, which it asks about and the LL has just referred to the "notice" he gave me....

[raydetinu]

sounds straight forward eniough, judge will throw it out, just turn up.

[confusedbunny]

sounds straight forward eniough, judge will throw it out, just turn up.

 

Thanks for your reply. .....There is no mention of a hearing, what do i put on the defence form, i.e. S21 not served etc? will there be a hearing then once i send it back? ( Form says can be decided without a hearing......)

 

Am i getting this right, the LL "thinks" he is using the "S21" ACCELORATED ROUTE to save time,jump the gun and rush things through? Instead of a different form/procedure, i.e. stating S8 and grounds for possession?

 

The "notice" that was served to me to leave at the end of the tenancy (that LL is stating is a S21" should be 2 months notice aswell and i have just realised, its one month and 20 days and now he is starting the accelarted process already.....Bit messy!!

Edited December 22, 2012 by confusedbunny

[raydetinu]

put all these things in response then.

[confusedbunny]

Ok, so basically, in the defence form, shall i just state that I havent been served a S21 notice correctly (i.e. no two months notice, the "notice" served and used in claim by LL does not state "S21" and only one month and 20 days notice to leave).....Shall i bother mentioning the deposit not protected either at this stage? (I dont want to bring to the LL's attention, his lack of knowledge/obligations in all this process (as i want to delay the eviction as long as possible)...... Based on this wrong notice being served, will i still get a hearing or will the court just return the papers to the LL?........I am puzzled why the LL is not using the S8 route...

Edited December 23, 2012 by confusedbunny

[mariner51]

s8 g10,11 repo is discretionary; only g8 is mandatory AND only if 2 month rent owing at time of hearing.

A valid s21 repo Notice is mandatory.

If you feel s21 is invalid by virtue of expiry date or lack of deposit protection, then on form state 'presumed invalid - see attached correspondance' then attach copy of s21 received and/or your evidence that deposit protection was not compliant at times21 was served.

Assist the Judge, don't attempt to tell him what his decision should be.

[confusedbunny]

Thanks for your reply. The "notice" given to me stated "S18" not "S21" and expired within one month and 20 days......So, is this defineatly invalid? I tried to look on the net for what S18 meant to help myself but couldnt find anything....Do you advise i put in a full defence (reasons as to why i need x days on possession order and just keep it to the fact that i believe the "notice" is invalid with supporting evidence? .......Sorry to keep asking questions but this is alot of stress for me and need clarification, right near xmas.....

[raydetinu]

you can contact shelter if that worried for advice and they could possibly attend court if eviction is possible; they are very good.

Could be a typo, meant S8 not S18! have you got any further info as to reason behind the S18.

S18 seems to cover a tenancy where the head lease has come to an end and there is sub- tenant still in occupation, and its reversion back to the head lease or owner.

[confusedbunny]

you can contact shelter if that worried for advice and they could possibly attend court if eviction is possible; they are very good.

Could be a typo, meant S8 not S18! have you got any further info as to reason behind the S18.

S18 seems to cover a tenancy where the head lease has come to an end and there is sub- tenant still in occupation, and its reversion back to the head lease or owner.

 

Thanks for your reply. If it was meant to say S8, no grounds etc are mentioned on the claim form of this....With regards to S18, not sure what all this means, I entered into a contract with a private LL, not a head lease or anything.....

 

If it was meant to state S8 (then two weeks notice was not given)

If it was meant to say S21 (then only one month and 20 days was given before claim made to court, not full two months)

...And as for S18, i do not have the foggiest, what this means at all, and irrelevent to any TA i have....

[raydetinu]

well it looks as though LL is confused as well and has not looked or taken advice.

just respond the best you can and as M51 says just point out that it appears incorrect and leave it at that ( do not mention invalid or anything like that ).

Judge will decide that.

[confusedbunny]

Thank you to you both, yes, i think i will respond with that....Hopefully the judge will understand that i was/am unable to obtain independant help advice without know what the notice actually is! I shouldnt assume it was a typing error etc as it does not state S21 anywhere.....

[raydetinu]

As said before contact shelter, and arrange to see them, they WILL assist and maybe even at court.

[confusedbunny]

Yes, i will contact them but doubt they will be able to help me durung xmas....ive only got 2 weeks to send the defence form back.....Should i keep it precise and write something like:

 

"I believe this notice is presumed invalid for several reasons:

 

1. This notice refers to s18 of housing act and not S21

2.The notice period of when it was served to the expiry is only one month and 20 days (not min 2 months) (Copy attached)

3.The expiry date of TA is xxxxx and not the day after, as stated in notice.

4.Upon signing the 2nd TA, the deposit was not re-protected, as per T & C's of deposit scheme (copy attached)

5.The initial deposit was filed 35 days after payment (not within 14 days as per deposit scheme T & C's) (copy attached)

6. The claimant failed to complete details regarding the deposit on Q7.

Regarding the deposit being protected possibly fraudulently, I do not think i should raise this on my defence form as this is a criminal matter,not civil......Will it add weight to my defence if i mention the deposit issues stated in the points above or will just suggesting the "notice" does not state a S21 be enough for the judge to throw this out?

 

Hence, if i state just about the notice not being a correct S21, if the LL decides to re-issue, then i can then raise the issue over the deposit not being protected, right? To give me more time......

 

At the same time, i do not want to risk the judge deciding that the "notice" is correct and not mentioning the deposit issues....Hmm......

 

Also, as the LL failed to state his address on the TA, is this correct that I am not obliged to pay rent? (I.e. S8,G8 cannot be served as rent not due), I read this......

 

Make sure that the tenancy gives an address for the landlord in England and Wales

(otherwise the agreement will not comply with section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 which means that rent will not be payable by the tenant). The address can be that of an agent if the landlord is living abroad or in Scotland.

Edited December 24, 2012 by confusedbunny

[raydetinu]

A lot of things here;

but suggest the following,

1.dont mention S21, just that S18 does not appear applicable.

2.ommit

3.ommit

4.OK

5. not relevant

6. subjective, but you can point that out.

certainly mention about the original deposit fraud and that agreement does not have a valid contact address.

you will need to submit all documents to back this up, with copies of original and subsequent agreements etc.

[confusedbunny]

A lot of things here;

but suggest the following,

1.dont mention S21, just that S18 does not appear applicable.

2.ommit

3.ommit

4.OK

5. not relevant

6. subjective, but you can point that out.

certainly mention about the original deposit fraud and that agreement does not have a valid contact address.

you will need to submit all documents to back this up, with copies of original and subsequent agreements etc.

 

Thank you for this clarification, i didnt want to mention irrelevent points on the defence.....I will update on here again at the next stage....thank you so much once again for your advice......

[confusedbunny]

I need some clarification whilst i await for the hearing for the s21 possession order......

 

1. As the LL failed to return my deposit to me on commencement of signing the 2nd AST, what happens now? As i am in arrears, do i have any rights at the moment to make a claim to have it returned as the LL has failed to protect it?

 

(I am trying to help myself with reading up on this but also to get guidance on here...Am i right in thinking that claiming my deposit back/claiming for 3 x for non-protection is a totally seperate issue to me having rent arrears?....)

 

2.If the LL decides to go down the S8 route, the TA clearly states that deposit held be used against rent arrears, does that mean after I have left the property and subtracted from the arrears total? or am i effectively in arrears of xx weeks, minus the deposit,therefore, S8 could effectively be served too soon, if the deposit equivelant has to be subtracted from the arrears amount?

[raydetinu]

as long as deposit is protected now,not relevant.

any claim would have been totaly sepeate.

S8 is dependant on arrears at hearing, or even being consistantly behind. ( deposit is not taken into account sperate issue )

[confusedbunny]

as long as deposit is protected now,not relevant.

any claim would have been totaly sepeate.

S8 is dependant on arrears at hearing, or even being consistantly behind. ( deposit is not taken into account sperate issue )

 

 

The deposit is not protected, so effectively could i make a claim now for non-protection? and even if its deducted off the arrears i owe, once i leave the property, can i claim after that it was not protected?