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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hierarchy of statutes, regulations and T&Cs


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Thanks to some excellent advice from these forums I have recently resolved an issue of being expected to pay postage for the pleasure of returning a faulty item. R.14(6) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 places responsibility for bearing said cost upon the seller.

 

I have pointed out the relevant sections of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 with which their Terms and Conditions do not comply in this regard. However, the company in question is still insisting their T&C's comply with all legal requirements but is willing to make a "one time exception" and replace the faulty item without receiving the defective unit (as if they're doing me a favour).

 

My question therefore is: Do 'regulations' count as statutory rights or do they rank lower than Terms and Conditions? Obviously a company's T&Cs cannot circumvent statutory rights so how can they still claim to be abiding by the law?

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Regulations count as statutory rights.

However, a company would be within its rights to require the return of a defective item before providing a replacement - although they would have to pay for the postage once it was established that the item was defective

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If an item is returned as 'not wanted' under the DSR, then return postage can be charge but only if it says so in their T&Cs and was there at the time of purchase, they cannot add it to their T&Cs once a purchase has been made.

If they don't say that return postage is the responsibility of the buyer, then they have to return both delivery and return costs.

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Ts &Cs cannot be worded to remove your statutory rights.

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Ok, thanks, Bankfodder. I figured that was the case. I'm surprised at their reaction to be honest; I only wanted them to pay the postage. The item in question was a gaming mouse costing £115 so do you suppose the cost of returning it to Germany (and subsequently shipping out the replacement) is just in excess of the cost rate of building a new one, or is this some kind of trap? Or are they just being disproportionately generous so I'll let things lie?

 

Conniff, I'm afraid you've lost me a bit. It was my understanding that regulation 14(6) of The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 rendered the requirement for the customer to bear the expense of returns non-applicable in the case of faulty goods (as the customer has the right to reject said goods). Am I wrong in this?

 

BRIGADIER2JCS, my thanks for taking the time to help me out but I think you may have misunderstood the question.

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The seller can state in their T&Cs should you return the product for a other than not working, the return postage is to be met by the buyer in accordance with the DSRs.

The buyer is only liable for the return postage if it says so in the T&Cs. If there is nothing in the T&Cs about return costs, then the seller is liable.

 

If the product bought has a fault then the seller must pay for the return

 

Refunds

 

The retailer must refund the full amount including the delivery costs as soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case within 30 days at the latest. You cannot insist on the goods being received by you before you make a refund.

 

Returning goods

 

Only if it is covered in the contract and the written information can you require the consumer to pay for the cost of returning the ordered goods. If the consumer then fails to return the goods, or sends them at your expense, you can charge them the direct cost to you of the return, even if you have already refunded the consumer’s money.

 

You are not allowed to make any further charges, such as a restocking charge or an administration charge. If you do not include these details in the required written information then you cannot charge anything. You can never require consumers to pay the cost of returning substitute goods. If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.

 

 

www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

Edited by Conniff
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Good, that's a relief. As much as I resent being held hostage by a company, I think it's just as bad the other way around. I wouldn't want to be browbeating anyone into giving me things to which I had no legal right.

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