PCN with wrong road name

[kiran1230]

Hello friends,

 

I have received a PCN for waiting on double yellow lines in a London council road. The PCN include the picture of the car parked on yellow line and also mention that the alleged contravention is recorded by the camera.

 

I have attached the copy of PCN. The road name in PCN is incorrect, As you can see in the PCN, the road stated is Northolt Road, but the car was at St John's Road at the same time and that's the road in the picture also.

 

So will it help if I challenge the PCN on the basis that alleged contravention did not occur. The notice says if representation is unsuccessful, will have to pay full fee which is £110. The council will have the video which show my car is waiting on yellow lines eventhough the road name is not correct.

 

thanks

[Michael Browne]

yes, challenge the PCN on the basis that alleged contravention did not occur. You were parked in St Johns Road, not Northolt Road as alleged on the PCN, as evidenced by their own video..

 

The council will have the video which show my car is waiting on yellow lines eventhough the road name is not correct.

Doesn't matter, it's what's alleged on the PCN that counts. They cannot re-issue a corrected PCN for the same contravention.

[kiran1230]

Thank you Michael for the quick reply.

 

Thats what I thought. But I needed some assurances that I was right to challenge it.

 

I will go ahead and challenge it and update back with result.

[Jamberson]

You can expect a cancellation. Wrong location invalidates a PCN.

[kiran1230]

I have appealed and now received the Notice of Rejection letter from council. Please see attached.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43944[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43945[/ATTACH]

 

They neither accept my claim nor mention anything about the wrong road name in the PCN. They have now just rejected on the basis of contravetion captured on the CCTV.

[green_and_mean]

too small to read

[Jamberson]

They neither accept my claim nor mention anything about the wrong road name in the PCN.

 

From what I can see it acknowledges that you claimed the location was wrong, but says that you provided no evidence.You don't really need to - the onus is on them in considering your appeal, to look into the issue.

 

Out of curiosity - can you post up your appeal letter?

[kiran1230]

Thank you for the reply

 

Here is the section from my appeal

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43970[/ATTACH]

 

thanks

[Jamberson]

Strange. Looking back at the first image, it looks like it was taken from an elevated position, so I would think a fixed camera. I wonder how they could have got the name of the location wrong? I would have thought that this info was not able to be altered by them.

 

Anyhow, I think if you are right you should fight on. Have you viewed the footage? It would be a great help if there was some image or footage available which would enable you to prove where the camera was - for example a shop front, which would pin the location down.

 

Do you know if anything like this is available?

[kiran1230]

I haven't seen the video footage. But I have seen other images from the council website. And from that it is clear that the road is St John's road and is next to the council library building. The address of the library in the council website also says that the road is St. John's road.

 

So I understand now I have to appeal to the independent adjudicator. What should I say on the details of the appeal. Also what evidences can I give to prove that it is an invalid PCN?

 

If I pay the PCN now and then appeal. will the appeal be considered?

[Michael Browne]

What should I say on the details of the appea

Simply that the contravention did not occur. You were not parked in Northolt Rd and that the councils photos are of St John's Rd

 

Also what evidences can I give to prove that it is an invalid pcn?

You could include photos from St Johns Road that show the council's photos in context

 

If I pay the PCN now and then appeal. will the appeal be considered?

No if you pay, it will be deemed that you accept the contravention occurred and forgo your right to appeal.

[kiran1230]

Thank you guys. I will appeal and let you know the outcome.

[Jamberson]

You should defintely fight this - you will win. What I would do is this:

 

Get copies of the council's images. If you can find one with the car in view, and something concrete to prove the location, then perfect. It could be someone's garden gate, a shop front, even the positioning of a couple of manhole covers - anything like that hich pins down the location. Then go to Google Maps and grab an image from there showing the same detail, then a long-shot so it can be established that both - all - photos were taken in Northolt Road.

 

It's just a case of proving it so the adjudicator can't logically disagree with you.

 

In addition to applying for a hearing with the adjudicator, I would also submit the images to the council, along with a polite letter stating that you can categorically prove that the PCN is incorrect, and have no choice but to go through adjudication. Show them the images and suggest that they cannot possibly win, and that you would rather save their time and the taxpayer's money, by them agreeing to cancel the case now, since your evidence is conclusive.

 

You'll win either way, in my view - but you just might get a quicker result if you do both.

 

By the way, you can claim expenses if the adjudicator thinks the council has acted vexatiously. I think that if you have shown the council conclusive proof, and they still make you go to the hearing, you may well be awarded costs. Moreover they didn't consider your representation fully, which they should have done by examining their own images and determining whether your appeal carried any weight. They failed to investigate, so costs are cetrainly worth looking into.