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chrscmbs vs Igroup & GE PPI Issue.


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Hello everyone,

 

It's been a while but I Sincerly hope your all well?

 

I’m pretty unsure as to what I can do (if anything?) or should be doing (if anything?) regarding the issue of PPI in relation to our mortgage and as a result, If anyone could possibly point myself and my wife in the right direction over this matter we would be greatful, as always.

 

In 2001 we obtained a mortgage through a broker with a Lender called “Platform Home Loans” In 2004 we then re-mortgaged via a broker called “The Mortgage Group” who introduced us to a lender called “Igroup” The Credit agreement reads:

 

Broker Fee 3,000.00

Original Credit Insurance (PPI) 6,556.00

Admin Fees 500.00

Cheque ######

Platform Home Loans Mortgage buyout ######

Secured Loan buyout ######

Total Loan ##,###.##

 

In a nutshell, the “The Mortgage Group” grabbed £3,000 as their fee. I will name this first policy as "PPI One" for reference:

 

The cost of the payment protection Insurance plan sold to us cost £6,556.00 for 5 years cover? According to our paperwork from the time:

 

 

This PPI figure was divided into two parts:

 

 

£3,533.00 for Joint Life Cover.

£3,023.00 for Acccident, sickness and unemployment. (ASU)

£6,556.00 total.

 

 

It also says " Lender Commission £561.09 We also receive commission on insurance"

 

This was a lot of money, still is and especially for 60 months worth of PPI cover (5 years) despite the mortgage been over 360 months? But when we mentioned this apsect to the broker we were told we had to have this level of protection as its one of the conditions, they were very adament about it, I was Self employed at the time. I still have all the original carbon copies of the agreement too.

 

Looking back, I don’t know how this 5 year policy could have possibly helped protect us for the 25 years mortgage? but we did as we were directed. I just want to see what you think?

 

Leaving this first ppi policy for the moment... we did not leave it 5 years though, only arounf 19 months as In 2006 we remortgaged yet again with:

 

GE this time, who actually approached us as apparently our provider “igroup” and “GE” were all now one and the same? they approached us as they said we were loyal and good paying customers, and as a result they could help us afford some of the things we want but only if we remortgaged.

 

So that's what happened and In 2006 we had a new credit agreement. Although they were the same company we were still charged £1,775.00 in total for the privilage...

 

 

Broker Fee 1,000.00

Admin Fees 775.00

Cheque ######

GE Money Original Mortgage (Original) ##,###.##

Secured Loan buyout #########

Total Loan ????/###,###.##

 

This remortgage cleared and closed out our old mortgage completly for a new one (Our current one) which includes a new monthly PPI policy (PPI Two for reference) Starting immediently at £41.## a month.

 

Sadley, two years later we fell into arrears due to illness (I was self employed and couldn’t work, so Income was zero) I wrote to GE letting them know we were in financial difficulty, they did not reply. I ended up in hospital at one stage and my wife was trying to work and look after our children. We were then advised to write by GE and ask them for “interest Only” repayments.

 

We then get a Letter from GE explaining about a potential 6mth interest only option offer and to sign the attached form to accept; we signed but the day after we received a letter from GE informing us of their intention to commence repossession

proceedings? Devastated – scared, worried, sickened you name it, we felt it. Early 2009 we got a Court letter informing us that GE were filing for full arrears or repossessions!

 

Then thanks to family members on both sides, we were able to clear our arrears... Since then until now everything has been OK, but last month we got an “annual review of PPI letter.

 

Annual, thats wrong as this is the first time we have ever had one of these, but when we looked and double looked at it, It says:

 

“Life Cover” Not included?

“Accident & Sickness” Included?

“Unemployment” Included?

 

Where’s my life cover? And what Sickness cover? hang on... I was poorly a few years back but did not know I had this cover? GE never said a word at the time either? Am I going mad...GE never said a word that I had sickness or unemployment cover? when we were in arrears and again "Where is my life cover" What did they actually sell us here? What have I been paying £41.## a month for over the last 7 years?

 

Due to the the circumstances, the time frames and dates etc. Can I do anything about the two policies "PPI One" or "PPI Two" as getting this letter recently caused us to look at everything and both policies just dont seem to add up? Can we do anything due to the first policy been 9 years old? Is it just me that thinks that things dont add up can we do anything about the second/ active policy since we have had it for 7 years already other than cancel it? If they will let me!

 

I have since purchased a life cover policy with another compny, which is only £10.## a month.

 

I have written to GE to cancel the PPI but heard nothing as yet?

 

What do you think to all of this? What should we do? any help here would be welcome...

 

Chris.

chrscmbs

Edited by chrscmbs
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It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

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god that must of taken hours to make it look pretty

 

 

...

 

yes you had PPI rollover

 

follow no1, below

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello dx100uk,

 

Thank you for your reply, it means a lot to us, and yes It does look pretty thinking about it, lol

 

Thanks again though, I have had a good read of number 1 as requested and some of it makes a lot of sence, but I dont get some of the other parts.

 

Am I right in thinking that because the first £6,556.00 PPI policy from the "mortgage group" was, what is called a "Single Premium" policy..

 

. my lender (igroup) sent them the cash up front and then added this amount to my total (mortgage) loan figure!

 

In doing so, not only did I owe £6,556.00 but on top, we began to pay interest over the entire length of the loan too? I feel sick thinking about this.

 

What a Con!

 

Igroup clearly knew what they were doing here by generating potentially thousands in interest for themselves

over the term of the loan in the first instance by getting us to take a PPI policy with their partner the "mortgage group"

 

But then, the "Mortgage group" made £6,556.00 out of us for a mis-sold five year policy,

through the efforts of their partners "Igroup" who just happened to also get £561.09 commision for getting us to sign in the first place.

 

They were in each others pockets...

 

GET the customer to sign up to a £6.5K PPI policy, pay us the cash directly,

we will then pay you £500+ commision and you also get the £6.5K figure back with added interest.

.. via your mortgage deal...

 

win win for them both.

 

19 months later when we remortgaged a "roll over" situation from what I understand begins as the PPI elelemt from our old loan is absorbed into the new balance

and we technically end up having to pay interest on this from that moment on until the mortgage ends in 28 years?

 

All I want to do initially is to reclaim the £6,556.00 paid to the mortgage group to put us back in the position were were prior to it been applied in the first instance

as this policy was ill advsed, poorly explained and mis-sold.

 

Chris.

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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now you know why its been outlawed!

 

you need to tackle this properly.

 

on your mortgage it should tell you what it cost per month for each PPI.

 

you need to pop that into the statint sheet at the end of link 1.

 

your are in for a VERY large windfall.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello,

 

 

Thanks for that dx, I'm clearly going to need help with this matter for sure. My goal is Simple:

  • Reclaim the original £6,556.00 paid out to the broker "The mortgage group" as the policy was mis-sold.
  • Cancel our existing PPI policy with "GE"
  • Reclaim all premiums that we paid out over the last 7 years to "GE" towards this also mis-sold policy.

Naturally, My goal might be simple, but I can bet the process wont be. :!::-) Now, I wrote to "GE" recently to formally request that they cancel our current policy as I was disgusted with its mis-sold cover elements after reading the recent review notification which they sent us, and today we got a letter back from "GE" telling us that they will cancel the policy in 30 days time (30 days after receiving my request) or in other words, its a great opportunity for them to grab another £41.30 from us via another payment! How do these people sleep at night?

 

I had a look at the statint link and I after entering every date from the first payment in July 2006 up to the confirmed cancel date (06/05/2013)

 

In total I have will have made/paid a total of 81 "£41.30" payments to GE and this totals: £3,345.30

 

The calculation sheet states:

 

MONTHLY PAYMENT OF PPI = £41.30

8% SIMPLE INTEREST = £883.18

TOTAL = £924.48

 

I'm guessing that I simply add the mis-sold Premiums total of £3,345.30 to this 8% interest figure, giving me a new and combined total of £4,269.78

 

Is this the figure that I should be requesting back from "GE" in relation to my second/current PPI policy? or am I missing the point etc reagrdless of the rollover situation as I'm just trying to simplify it in my mind.

 

Just to confirm... The first PPI policy of £6,556.00 from the mortgage group is completly separate? Sorry to be a pain.

 

Chris.

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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no that's not how you do it read 1 below

 

enter 41.30 for every month you paid it and its date.

 

the spreadsheet [statint ] is at the end of link 1

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello,

 

I knew I would do it wrong:| Sorry dx and everyone else looking at this thread, I have had another go and this time it looks like this now:

 

AWARD CALCULATION

Monthly Payment of PPI £3,304.00

8% Simple Interest £883.18

Total £4,187.18

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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you can attach the spread if you wish

 

now above you indicate one mortage refinanced the other?

 

if this is so

I hope you calculated the rollover too.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello dx,

 

I have attached the spreadsheet below:

 

[ATTACH]43136[/ATTACH]

 

Our first mortgage with: "Igroup" and the broker "The mortgage group" was settled by a new loan (mortgage) with "GE" so yes, roll over certainly occured but I just dont know what to do in relation to a calculation, I have looked at number one, but I'm still stuck. :sad: Sorry for just not getting it.

 

That's why I wanted to basically keep it simple with one PPI refund claim for the first policy of £6,556.00 and a second and seperate PPI claim for the new figure of £4,187.18

 

GE's letter today confirms that the current PPI policy which costs us £41.30 a month which started on the 31/07/2006 with its first payment been taken on the 31/08/2006 will now end on the 06/05/2013.

 

I have had a look at "The mortgage group" and I think they have been renamed to "the money group" if what I have read via a google search is right? But they are still in existance thankfully.

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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as such the spready is correct

however the first PPI 'ended' when

the second mortgage was taken out.

 

what you need to know is the figure of the refinance of the old mortgage in to the new.

 

do you know that?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Hello dx,

 

At least I got the first spread sheet right, lol

 

Figues, Yes... I think so, I dont sound too sure do I though? :???:

 

I have a copy of the original 8 page "Mortgage Offer" document from GE itself dated 26/07/2006 and as a result we had made our first new mortgage repayment on the 31/08/2006. This document has loads of figures in.

 

I also have a letter from GE dated 31/07/2006 which highlights out new loan (mortgage) with all its disbursed elelments, like broker fee, old mortgage total etc.

 

I also have all my original figures in writting from our first loan (mortgage)

 

Will all of this highlight the required figure of the refinance of the old mortgage into the new which you mentioned?

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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well surely the first statement of the new mortgage will show the dispersement of the old one?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Hello Dx,

 

I have attached a copy of a letter that "The mortgage group" originally sent to me in 2004 which highlights a full breakdown of all the seperate elements of the loan/mortgage that they have arranged.

 

[ATTACH]43167[/ATTACH]

 

I have also added a copy of the original 2004 credit agreement, which relates to this below minus my personal details, of course, lol This is "customer copy 1" I also have "customer copy 2" which is exactly the same apart from the copy number been different.

 

[ATTACH]43163[/ATTACH]

 

In addition to these, attached below is a copy of the letter GE sent to me in 2006 , which shows a disbursmnet of funds list in relation to the remortgage.

 

[ATTACH]43164[/ATTACH]

 

Do any of these amounts or figures help in working out the figure of the old mortgage into the new motgage for thr roll over aspect?

Edited by chrscmbs
spelling

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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I would think its the £76k in the last doc?

 

whats the £12k to capstone about?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Hello,

 

Capstone was actually a seperate secured loan that we had and this was then settled as part of the new mortgage.

 

I wished I undestood all of this "roll over" aspect a bit better, but the figure/amount of the refinance of the old mortgage into the new one (re-mortgage) was £78,766.60 as mentioned on the 2006 GE letter.

 

After calculating that my second PPI policy from "GE" (2006-2013) including 8% interest adds up to a total of £4,187.18, what do I need to do now reagrding the roll over?

 

  • Do I write to GE asking for a refund for the £4k amount before I do anything else?
  • Add another figure based on the 78K amount to this 4k then contact GE over this new larger combined amount?
  • Send GE two seperate claims - one for a roll-over element (what ever that is calculated from the 78k figure?) and one for the £4K PPI claim?
  • Or due to not understanding this process, should I just leave it alone due to the roll over calculation been really complicated (to me anyway, lol) as under the circumstances its best to concentrate on just submitting the 4K claim?

By asking these questions, I hope to better understand this all and maybe others reading this will benefit from knowing to. Thanks again dx for everything so far.

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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if you look at no 1 below

it might become clear.

 

work out what % of your full monthly repayment the 41.30 was

 

monthly ppi/ full monthly repayment * 100 = xx%

 

that means that anything you repaid xx% was for PPI

 

you can then work out what xx% of the £78k was thew PPI element of it.

 

then follow the calcs in no.1. below.

 

dx

  • Confused 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Ok...here's the process and as dx says, it is all done using percentages.

 

AS the Igroup and GE are the same company then you do have rollover.

 

For the first loan your PPI was £6556 included in a total loan of £78519. That means that the PPI was 8.35% of the total.

 

Mortgages are generally variable rate and so your monthly payments on the loan may have changed from time to time. So you work out what 8.35% of each monthly repayment was on loan 1. You list those amounts in the spreadsheet. You only list the amounts you have actually paid and you stop the list at the point of the remortgage.

 

The second loan says that a sum of £78766.60 was used to pay off the old loan. That being the case, 8.35% of that figure was for the PPI part of the loan. That comes to £6,577.01.

 

Assuming there was no rebate of PPI at the time of settlement, this £6,577 is the amount of PPI rolled into your new loan. In effect you had to borrow £6,577 more to clear that loan than you would have done had that PPI not been added in the first place.

 

Now, your second loan was for a total of £104906 and you say that there was PPI on this loan as well. The disbursement sheet doesn't show it....was it a separate payment each month and was that separate payment the £41 you have included in your spreadsheet?

 

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Hello ims21,

 

I really appreciate your help and dx’s help with all of this... more than words can express!

 

 

The first loan had a missold PPI policy to the sum of £6,556.00 attached to it, which was for a single premium policy and thanks to your mathematical knowledge and skills, I now know that the PPI percentage of the total loan/mortgae was 8.35% As a result, can I just confirm that I now need to do the following:

 

 

· I need to work out what 8.35% of every single monthly payment we made was over the 19 months, between 2004 – 2006, then list these amounts onto a spread sheet.

 

Can I also just confirm, the first PPI policy was £6,556.00 and I understand that the 8.35% figure amounts to £6,577.01 with a £21.01 diffrence existing because naturally 8.35% of £78,766.60 is £6,577.01 OK but if this amount is rolling over into the new loan, dont I just need to draw a line under this particular first PPI matter now and seek a refund for the original policy figure (£6.5K) due to it been missold? as the second morgage/loan’s PPI is not a single premium like this? (Sorry for been hard work, lol I’m just trying to get my head around all of this.)

 

The second loan of £104,906.00 had its own PPI policy but this one was charged on a monthly basis.

The PPI for this mortgage, which is also our current mortgage cost us £41.30 a month which we have been paying since 2006 from the start of our new/current loan until I recently instructed them to cancel that is (2013) I added all the payments made to “GE” for this second policy into the spreadsheet totalling £4,187.18

 

So to summarise:

 

· I should seek a full refund from "Igroup/GE" on the first missold £6.5K PPI Policy.

 

· I should seek a full refund from "Igroup/GE" based for the roll over element based upon all the 8.35% amounts over the 19 months that we had the first missold PPI policy.

 

· I should seek a full refund from "GE" based upon all our £41.30 payments made to “GE” for the second missold PPI policy £4,187.18

 

If i'm still geting it wrong, or just parts of it wrong, please feel free to shout at me.:| I just want to get all of this right.

 

chrscmbs

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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· I need to work out what 8.35% of every single monthly payment we made was over the 19 months, between 2004 – 2006, then list these amounts onto a spread sheet.

 

Correct.

 

dont I just need to draw a line under this particular first PPI matter now and seek a refund for the original policy figure (£6.5K) due to it been missold?

 

No. You are reclaiming what you have actually paid and the interest paid as a result. 8.35% of your settlement figure for loan 1 was PPI so in loan 2 you borrowed £6,577 more than you would have done had PPI not been added to the loan. So you continued to pay for loan 1 PPI through loan 2.

 

You new loan was for £104906 and £6,577.01 equates to 6.27% of that loan. As a result, 6.27% of each monthly repayment you made on loan 2 is for the PPI in loan 1. You need to list 6.27% of each monthly repayment made on loan 2 into the sheet underneath the list you have already made.

 

You then list the payments of £41 you have made for the loan 2 PPI.

 

When this resolves itself, your loan 2 balance should be adjusted for the loan 1 PPI that you have not yet paid, i.e. reduced so that your future repayments do not continue to pay for the loan 1 PPI.

  • Confused 1

 

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Hello,

Right… I think I have finally got it!!! :-)

 

Forgetting the entire and initial £6,556.00 PPI policy amount for the moment, I finally understand that I can only claim back what I have already/actually paid, not what I have not… and due to “roll over”, I have not paid the entire £6,556.00 figure. So using a spreadsheet, I should now list all the payments that we have definitely made:

 

1. This will include amounts based on 8.35% of every single repayment that we have actually made on loan 1 between 2004-2006

2. This will also include amounts based on 6.27% of every single repayment that we have actually made on loan 2 between 2006-2013

3. And this will additionally include every single £41.30 payment that we have ever made on loan 2.

 

This will give us a complete and combined PPI figure that represents every single payment that we have made including all contractual interest, the spreadsheet will also include 8% simple interest on top of this too, giving us a grand total.

It is this grand total that we will request and expect to receive back.:-)

 

The £6,556.00 figure that I seemed to be so blinkered about and focused on, simply consists of a still and yet to be paid element which GE should then adjust to remove the PPI aspect completely during a restructure of our loan to reduce our outstanding balance accordingly.

chrscmbs

Edited by chrscmbs
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It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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Hello,

My next step is to simply discover just how much all our repayment amounts were between 2004-2006 that we made to "Igroup" and again from 2006-2013 that we made to "GE"

PS.

I don’t have all our bank statments for this time period, I have quite a few but sadly not all. Over the years we have banked with a total of three banks so I guess I need to approach all three and ask for statments since 2004 to present.

chrscmbs

 

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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Morning everyone,

 

To try and obtain all our bank statements from the three different banks that we have used over the years (yorkshire Bank, Lloyds TSB, Natwest) to pay our mortgage repayments from, can I simply pop into their branches and ask for printouts face to face or do I need to write to them?

 

Naturally, we have a lot of papaerwork already, but not everything and I just wanted to ask what should I do now to find out what payments we have actually made to Igroup/GE over the years. :???:

 

chrscmbs

Edited by chrscmbs

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

(Confucius - 4 BC)

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