Very worried - need help!!! :(

[Smoked Salmon]

Hi,

 

I have two seperate issues I need guidance on.

 

I have a mortgage with NRAM and a secured loan with GE Home Lending. I am in arrears on both as I have been out of work for the best part of the past two years due to having something of a specialist job. GE recently issued proceedings against me for possession and the first hearing is due to take place next week, 20th Feb.

 

In the next couple of days, due to help from my parents, I will be able to pay off about 75% of the outstanding arrears with GE. I have also, since the new year, had a sharp up turn in the number of job interviews I have been having (I've had seven in the past couple weeks alone). My objective is to get the proceedings adjourned since I am hoping that despite the length of time I have been out of work, things are looking up and I should hopefully be in work soon.. If that's the case, I will have no problem keeping up the monthly payments and a contribution towards the debt. After this week's payment the arrears will be less than £400, or less than £800 if you count this month's normal instalment, which coincidently also falls due tomorrow.

 

In addition to this I do not believe that GE have followed the pre-action protocols. For a good few months I had agreed a payment arrangement with them, which was about 70% of the monthly sum due. Over Christmas I advised them that I would be looking to make the normal monthly payment for January, and then about 20% extra towards the arrears. This was rejected. In fact I had made this proposal based on the fact that I had some shares that I could sell that would raise the said amount (or thereabouts). I had told them that I would investigate how long it would take to sell them, but by the time I did they had already issued a rejection letter. A coupleof weeks later I received a refund of council tax that equated to about a third of the arrears. I then telephoned and advised them of this. By this time it seems they had already sent word to their solicitors to issue proceedings as the claim form was issued on 15th Jan. No written response to that proposal was ever offered. So it seems to me that they have no investigated all the options, even though they did, for a time, agree payment arrangements. Is this still not a breach of the protocols? They never served a letter before action either, instead claiming that a default notice dating back some 8 or so months was good enough.

 

Now, I am a lawyer by profession myself, albeit it I work in a totally different field, so I have rough idea of how to behave in court. It's just I am not up to speed on the law relating to these sorts of claims. I really just want to buy some time by way of an adjourment time so that I can hopefully get a job secured in the interim. Now, my common sense tells me that I have, at the very least, some argument to put forward in that respect. I am just a bit worried that I will get some sort of gung ho judge who will cause me trouble, so any tips or advice on repsentations would be grateful.

 

 

Seperately, as I say I am in arrears on my main mortgage with NRAM. However, they are not enough to have yet generated a claim in court. This is because it is their policy not to do so until the arrears are over two months. I have done my best to keep the arrears below this, aiding in part my mortgage interest assitance (whoich pays about 40% of the monthly amount). Despite being informed that I am not working just about every time I called them, they wrote a letter saying "we don't know why you're in arrears". They say they want to send a field agent around, who has been pestering me by telephone and even showed up at my home while I wasn't there. They say that if I refuse they will charge me for it! Is this right? What exactly is this field agent meant to do? To be honest I don't fancy the idea of someone coming into my home and casting an eye over al my belongings (not that I have anything of huge value there, but it's just feels like an invasion of privacy). Where did I stand on this?

 

If anyone can help on either of these issues I'd be grateful. Sorry to sign up just for this, but I have trying to get help from a legal aid firm and/or Shelter, but thus far to no avial.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, have you completed the N11M defence form which you should have received with the Claim for Possession documents from the court?

 

Have a read of this guide http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?325527-CAG-guide-Are-you-facing-eviction-or-repossession . If you need any help with a statement for Q.27 of the N11M please ask.

 

It will help your case substantially if you can make the 75% payment towards the arrears - if you are then only £800 in arrears I'm sure the judge won't award possession to GE.

 

With regard to the field agent, you are under no obligation to see this person and if you did not request the visit you should most definitely not be charged for it.

[Smoked Salmon]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I have been doing what I can to organise for the hearing.

 

Later today I will pay the bulk of the pleaded arrears, leaving about a £100 or so left. Two months' further payments have accrued since proceedings have been issued, but they amount to only £700. Since posting the above I have been offered the chance of a consultancy agreement with a new firm and so I should start earning soon. In addition I have some shares I can sell that are worth about £400 - £500, so I am hoping that the judge will be convinced that there is a likelihood of me getting back on my feet and therefore adjourning the matter.

 

I am also sending a detailed letter of representation with my papers. Having gone back over what has happened recently, it seems GE decided to issue proceedings only about 7 working days after refusing an offer of payment from me that would have been not only a full monthly payment, but a contribution towards the arrears as well. They wrote a letter of rejection just one working day after I made the offer. They issued proceedings without a letter of claim. Furthermore, I made a second, higher offer to them just days before issue, and this was completely ignored.

 

Their solicitors, on the otherhand, have pleading compliance with pre-action protocol. Stated that a letter of claim exists, alleged that capitalisation of the arrears and other alternatives have been consider (I have never once had a discussion about these options despite asking GE over the phone for their advice and guidance as a customer) and have generally been disingenuous in their witness statement. I was hoping to make an argument over costs in court, irrespective of the actual outcome of the hearing, as their claim form is clearly misleading, GE haven't lifted a finger to treat possession as a last resort and discuss matters with me at all. They have gone straight from me making my last agreed payment, to issuing proceedings in just days, and over the Christmas period no less (so with reduced working days).

 

Fact of the matter is that if they had worked with me for several weeks, chances are I could have paid off half the arrears before that month had even ended. Surely co-operation would have been what the pre-action protocols called for?

 

So, with this in mind, what do you think my chances are of getting something out of represetations regarding their conduct?

[Ell-enn]

Your hearing is on Wednesday - have you not taken the defence papers to the court yet ?

[Smoked Salmon]

No. They were to be filed today. There is no requirement that they be filed within 14 days of issue, merely that it is the ideal time unless there is good reason. The court guidance even states this. I am an experienced enough lawyer to know that if there is a good reason for the delay, which there was, then late fiing is acceptable, especially since I am a litigant in person, notwithstanding my professional quals.

 

In any event, I paid 75% of the arrears today and they caved. They are now not going to court. I will go anyway just to spend five minutes with the judge for guidance on the issue of costs, since I only live two streets away and it won't increase anyone's costs for me to attend. What do you think my chances are of challenging them and getting the proceedings fully chucked out? I intend to make a complaint to GE about their costs and charges, and so if the proceedings are dismissed then this, to me, makes my job easier.

 

GE also seem to think no suspended possession order will be made, but rather that there will be a general adjournment. I'm not convinced that this is the case, so I would like to have a quick word with the judge about this as well. What do you reckon?

[Professor Fate]

In any event, I paid 75% of the arrears today and they caved. They are now not going to court.

 

How do you know this, do you have it in writing? If its verbal they can just turn up and you may assume that since they have agreed to then you dont, basically handing them the case on a plate. If you dont have anything in writing then go expecting to do battle. NRAM cannot be trusted, they have used untold BS, lies and delaying tactics before and there is no reason this kind of behaviour will change.

 

What do you think my chances are of challenging them and getting the proceedings fully chucked out?

 

Can you prove they did not follow all the pre-action protocols? If you can then you can try and get it chucked out completely. If you can then go for costs sure. If not, then you need to get a written statement from NRAM or GE (as you dont make it clear who issued the summons) about any costs and then dispute it with them, you are a lawyer so know about taxation and fair costs you can agree upon if their summons was valid.

 

GE also seem to think no suspended possession order will be made, but rather that there will be a general adjournment. I'm not convinced that this is the case, so I would like to have a quick word with the judge about this as well. What do you reckon?

 

Adjourned for what reason? Are they turning up or not or are they intending to turn up again in the future? They may make the application citing some bs that their rep is not available in which case the summons is still out there and they can restart it at any point should they wish, whether its for £200 or £20. If not, go for dismissal as there is no case to answer. You do not want it to be adjourned thats the worst case for you.

[Smoked Salmon]

 

How do you know this, do you have it in writing? If its verbal they can just turn up and you may assume that since they have agreed to then you dont, basically handing them the case on a plate. If you dont have anything in writing then go expecting to do battle. NRAM cannot be trusted, they have used untold BS, lies and delaying tactics before and there is no reason this kind of behaviour will change.

Whilst I concur with your assessment of NRAM, they are not presently suing me as my arrears are not enough. Their policy is more than two months arrears for over three months before they will go to court. I have this in writing from them after I was given made advice by them and submitted a complaint. So fair I have kept the arrears below this so they are happy (so to speak).

 

It is GE that took me to court on my second mortgage and it is them that have bottled it. Yes it is verbal, but I am writing to the court today to advise it of my conversation and I intend to appear at the hearing notsithstanding the conversation, as I said in my last post above. I may not be a property lawyer, but I have dealt with enough contentious cases over the years to know that it's based to cover my backside. Plus it cannot be said that I will be waisting costs in doing so, in my view.

 

Would you believe that GE are actually worse than NRAM?!!

 

 

Can you prove they did not follow all the pre-action protocols? If you can then you can try and get it chucked out completely. If you can then go for costs sure. If not, then you need to get a written statement from NRAM or GE (as you dont make it clear who issued the summons) about any costs and then dispute it with them, you are a lawyer so know about taxation and fair costs you can agree upon if their summons was valid.

I'm not sure taxation is worthwhile since the costs are so low (a matter of a few hundred pounds). They followed some of the protocols but not all. For instance, they ignored an offer put to them and failed to discuss alternative with me, such as capitalisation.

Adjourned for what reason? Are they turning up or not or are they intending to turn up again in the future? They may make the application citing some bs that their rep is not available in which case the summons is still out there and they can restart it at any point should they wish, whether its for £200 or £20. If not, go for dismissal as there is no case to answer. You do not want it to be adjourned thats the worst case for you.

Indeed. Their original letter to me said that they would sek to adjourn generally in the event that the arrears are paid. I am not satisfied with this so, if I can get it struck out for failure to follow the pre-action protocls, then that does me a favour not only in the time it'll take them to start the proceedings again in the future should they need to, but also my internal complaint against GE for issuing in the absense of adherence to the protocols.

[Professor Fate]

Would you believe that GE are actually worse than NRAM?!!

 

Yes I would, most secured lenders jump up and down like mad when they dont get paid. Did you make an application for a time order against GE just out of interest before they went down this route?

 

then that does me a favour not only in the time it'll take them to start the proceedings again in the future should they need to

 

Absolutely.

 

but also my internal complaint against GE for issuing in the absense of adherence to the protocols.

 

Making an internal complaint is probably a waste of time. If you already know about how GE operate and they are making mistakes in their pre-action protocols then dont give them the opportunity to fix them by giving them an a to z of their mistakes. Leave it be, then if they go after you again

the chances of them fixing their approach is slim so you can use the same failures next time as your first port of call if they want to issue any action.

 

Hope this helps.

[Smoked Salmon]

I was making an application for a time order in the alternative, in the event that the judge did not dismiss the case.

 

The reason I'll make an internal complaint is to generate a stink. It's not the first time I have had a fight with banks and I have been successful on most occasions. If the judge dismisses the claim but they reject my complaint I'll take it to the ombudsman. For the sake of the price of some stamps I don't think I have much to lose. If the Ombudsman gets involved I think this maym, at some point, provide added support should GE try and sue my again.

[northernbloke]

Would you believe that GE are actually worse than NRAM?!!

 

Yes I would, most secured lenders jump up and down like mad when they dont get paid.

 

I was in arrears for three years with them and to be honest they were very patient with me. (No, I don't work for them!)