Me v Capquest EGG card

[woodwa5]

Hello all,

 

quick question. I had an egg credit card and the debt has been sold on to another company. I want to claim back the charges so who do i claim against, egg or the company they sold the debt onto?

 

thanks:cool:

[steven4064]

You claim them back from Egg

[woodwa5]

thank you steven:D

[woodwa5]

Well time for an update. Sent them prelim and got a reply stating that as this is a complaint they have 8 weeks and will be in touch. Sent LBA and received a reply from them which will go on my next note

[woodwa5]

This is the key parts of the response i got from egg this morning. Would appreciate some help on a response:

 

Dear Woodwa5

Your Credit Card agreement with Egg clearly stated that charges will be added to your account if you exceed your credit limit or fail to make your contractual payments. In accordance with condition 7 of the agreement, a charge of £20(or since Aug 2006 £16) has been added to your account each time you exceeded your credit limit or failed to make a payment.

 

Your letter alleges that these charges are a penalty (my fault, used an old template)despite having not put forward evidence to support this allegation. The charges set out in the agreement are a genuine pre-estimate of the loss caused to egg when a customer breaks the terms of their agreement.

 

You may have noted the media coverageof the OFT investigation into defualt charges. The OFT stated that a default charge should only beused to recover certain limited admin costs (they then list things such as it, postage etc). The OFT set a threshold for intervention at £12.00 but stated that default fees should not be equivalent to the threshold.

 

The OFT stated that the presumption of unfareness in relation to charges over £12 would not apply where there areexceptional business factors. The therefore acknowledged that in those circumstances, a card issuer may be able to set a fair charge above the £12 threshold.

 

The OFT, as an example, specifically referred to Eggs practice of requiring all customers to pay the minimum monthly payment by direct debit. Following the conclusion of the investigation, the OFT indicated that it would not proceed further against EGG on the basis that egg reduced its charges from £20 TO £16. Accordingly, without any admission of liability as to the previous level of charges, Egg reduced to £16. The OFT has taken no further action against Egg.

 

This reduction does not apply retrospectively, however in your case we are prepared, without any admission of liability, to apply the reduction to the £20 charges.

 

If this offer is acceptable to you, we will credit your account with a total of £32 (I am asking for nearly £350 on 9 charges). They then list the charges missing one out.

 

An acceptance form is enclosed for you to sign and return.

 

Your account records show that Capquest have the account, therefore we will be contacting them to establish what balance is still owed so that we can arrange a payment for the charges.

 

They then go on to talk about six months to contact the FSA:mad:

[woodwa5]

So two issues really:

 

(i) How do I get them to pay the full amount (i've used 13.5% INTEREST AS THAT IS WHAT THEY CHARGED ME).

 

(ii) What the hell do I do regarding getting the money back and it not going to Capquest. I currently pay the £55 per month. I cca's them some time ago and they sent me a load of documents from Egg. This basically consisted of my accounts and the original signed agreement. Capquest state they own the debt and the account shows a 'charge off' SOME TIME AGO AND THEN A ZERO BALANCE. I have also noticed that the date on my signature is a day after their signature, which means they had already signed it by the time I got the application form, Is that correct?

 

I am confused as to the best way forward:confused:

[Mistermind]

So two issues really:

 

(i) How do I get them to pay the full amount (i've used 13.5% INTEREST AS THAT IS WHAT THEY CHARGED ME).

 

(ii) What the hell do I do regarding getting the money back and it not going to Capquest. I currently pay the £55 per month. I cca's them some time ago and they sent me a load of documents from Egg. This basically consisted of my accounts and the original signed agreement. Capquest state they own the debt and the account shows a 'charge off' SOME TIME AGO AND THEN A ZERO BALANCE. I have also noticed that the date on my signature is a day after their signature, which means they had already signed it by the time I got the application form, Is that correct?

 

I am confused as to the best way forward:confused:

 

On charges refund deal with Egg, not Capquest. Capquest's pressure for payment is an unrelated issue. It has been established for 2 years that Egg management, even Egg lawyers, do not want to defend penalty charges reclaim in court. What you received was a standard computer-generated letter to kid the uninitiated. There may be one more template brushoff letter from them, no more. Eggployees are required to go through the charade even though they know they intend to pay out in the end. As a rule when they cave in they volunteer to add 8% p.a. "statutory interest" on top. Very doubtful you will get more. You could try, but it will slow down repayment, and you could finish up in court defending a contractual interest reclaim already defeated in the High Court.

 

Simply ignore Egg template letters and press on with your own template letter based on the following:

 

01 weeks - 30 APR 2007 - WINNING TEMPLATE LETTER - Eggmail then 2-day payout - moc1982 v Egg

 

See: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/53376-e-day-victory-over-5.html

 

If you demonstrate you know the end result, Egg will not be encouraged to indulge in more mumbo-jumbo. They do not want to face you in court and set a precedent amidst press publicity to encourage more claimants, so will pay up, in many cases within a week, in others over 2, 3 months.

 

"Charge Off" means that for tax and accounting reasons Egg wrote off your balance as a loss. Your account at Egg no longer has a balance, but your debt at Capquest does. This does not remove Egg's answerability for Overlimit and Late Payment penalty charges which are reclaimable for up to 6 years back. You say they are unlawful. Egg do not want to argue in court.

 

Good luck.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Mistermind

[woodwa5]

Thank you sooo much for your reply. I have noted after reading so many threads today that the agreement i had with egg was unenforcable and i will challenge it with capquest. Will this effect my claim with egg and how do i stop them from giving the money straight to capquest?

 

thanks:cool:

[Mistermind]

Egg is a separate legal entity from Capquest. Egg is answerable in their own name to the regulator and to the law for what charges they levied. Chances are Egg have sold this debt to Capquest for a fraction.

 

If you still had an ongoing account with balance owing, then it would be hard to argue if Egg chose to refund charges back into the same account where charges were levied in the first place. But you no longer have an account with Egg.

 

All reported past experience suggests Egg will refund you direct, they will probably ask for a bank account you nomiinate, as they do not like sending cheques through the post. No need to discuss this with Capquest and give them ideas to give you hassle or try to intercept the refund.

 

Charges reclaim is known to be a success, in the case of Egg with very little hassle. No point in coupling a known winning campaign with an entirely different tussle without the same delivered results. It's your case to do as you choose.

[woodwa5]

Thank you. So in my reply to egg i will just put forward the info in the link you have suggested and highlight that the issue with capquest is in dispute and as they are a seperate entity should refund me and not capquest?

[Mistermind]

Charges refund is a legal issue between yourself and Egg.

Debt repayment is a legal issue between yourself and Capquest.

 

The two are unrelated, and nothing to be gained by raising an issue which does not arise. Egg clerks at the bottom of the food chain will trigger preset procedures when the expected cues arrive, i.e. a ritualised exchange of 2 or 3 letters, a dialogue between the deaf proven a hundred times.

 

Any extraneous issue raised will simply cause a letter to be filed at the bottom of the tray, as an exception from the rule for the attention of the next level up. Simply ask for a refund to you, offering your bank account and sortcode if you wish to shorten this choreographed dance. Egg are not going to pay Capquest, no point giving them the idea and a reason for delay.

[woodwa5]

Sorry, my fault i don't think i made it clear. in their response to me they say

 

Your account records show that Capquest have the account, therefore we will be contacting them to establish what balance is still owed so that we can arrange a payment for the charges.

They then gop on to say that any charges will be credited to the account with capquest.

I'm beginning to think that capquest don't own this account at all and it is just a lie

[steven4064]

What mistermind says - refuse to let them repay charges to Capquest - they ar nothing to do with them. If they repay them to Capquest, carry on with the claim for the full amount as they have't repaid you.

[Mistermind]

Sorry, my fault i don't think i made it clear. in their response to me they say

 

Your account records show that Capquest have the account, therefore we will be contacting them to establish what balance is still owed so that we can arrange a payment for the charges.

 

 

They then gop on to say that any charges will be credited to the account with capquest.

 

I'm beginning to think that capquest don't own this account at all and it is just a lie

 

Times are very hard now at Citi cards, living on government bailout. They will do anything say anything to save money.

 

You can point out the record about "Charge Off and balance zero" (google then point out you understand they have written off the balance from Egg books.) They cannot reduce a balance which does not belong to them and is no longer their's to reduce. If they claim to be paying a third party they are still liable in law and answerable to the judge -- the last place they want to be. This is kidology and brinkmanship, waiting for you to blink.

 

Steven is right. Ignore them and read the riot act.

[woodwa5]

wow, great stuff, i will formulate a response and send it recorded tomorrow, thank you sooooo much;)

[woodwa5]

Well here is my reply. I can't send it untill Monday so if there are any suggested changes please let me know:

 

Request for repayment of charges

Dear Sir/madam,

Thank you for your letter dated 29th June 2009 in which you state you have completed your investigation and informing me of your findings. I will deal with your findings in two parts. The first part concerns your offer and the second with regards to making payments to a third party (Capquest).

I have great respect for Egg's Genuine Pre-estimate of £20, great respect for Egg's Genuine Pre-estimate of £16 and great respect for all future Genuine Pre-estimates that Egg provide.

 

As a former cardholder I cannot help wondering, if after many years in business Egg has ever tried to reconcile Pre-estimates against Post-event audits. I am confident that a company devoted to justice and truth like Egg will not withhold evidence from the cardholder, that Egg will present evidence in court to show after-the-event costs, as well as before-the-event Genuine Pre-estimates. Therefore I intend to file a claim for the £180 (not the 160 you suggest in your letter, you missed one on 20/02/2004) charges and I hereby reject the £32 offer which you made in your previous correspondence.

The second point in your letter regards paying any charges refunded to Capquest who are a debt Collection Agency. Capquest inform me that they own the debt (I am currently in dispute with them regarding the legalities of the debt) and a check on my credit record today certainly shows that my balance with Egg is £0. This therefore makes Capquest a third party to which you have no right to give money on my behalf.

My targets to resolve this matter

I will accept nothing other than payment of the charges in full. I am prepared to accept 8% interest which as of today means the total refund should be £266.69. I will not accept you making any payments to a third party on my behalf and should you make any attempt to do so I will continue to pursue this case through the courts. If you wish to pay the money through a BACS transfer then my bank details are attached. You have until 14th July 2009 to make the payment into my account. On this day I will be attending XXXXX County court to file my N1 and begin the claim against you in which I will pursue to its conclusion,

Yours faithfully,

Woodwa5

 

 

 

[Mistermind]

Good.

 

Moc1982's argument is the one Egg cannot face in court, so they are unlikely to raise other difficulties which will get them there. No justification for Egg to pay third party Capquest any more than for them to refund into third party British Gas.

 

Egg has a cyle of 2 or 3 standard template response letters, so there may be two more on the way regardless of what you write, but eventually they will see sense -- any option but not those unanswerable questions in court.

 

Good luck.

[woodwa5]

Thank you for your help and thanx to Moc1982;)

[woodwa5]

Well I got a reply today offering to refund all bar 1 of the charges (god knows why) with 8% interest. They still say they will be contacting capquest to find out how much i still owe them and pay them the money. I will of course not be accepting this as capquest are a third party and correct me if i'm wrong but for them to even contact capquest will breach the data protection act. I phoned them today (I know) and they tried to get me to send in the signed letter of acceptance and they would sort it. I refused and am phoning back tomorrow to talk to the person who wrote the letter. If i don't get agreement of the full amount refunded to me then I will just file in court

[Mistermind]

Cannot think why Egg would withhold on refunding just one penalty charge. Was there a very late charge on the statement just before or just after the account was closed? If they sold the unpaid balance to Capquest without that final charge included in the balance, in their mind they may see that one shown on the statement as a theoretical charge, i.e. you did not pay it off and they did not offload it to Capquest.

 

They can explain to you or explain in court.

 

There is often a process of bargaining as Egg probes your resolution and conviction. Other cards are worse. If the cardholder stays polite and firm, Egg manager will realise it is not worth the try. An Egg barrister attending court can cost them £1,000 a day -- and still lose.

 

Good luck.

[woodwa5]

Thanks Mistermind. The charge is slap-bang in the middle so I think it's just an admin' mistake

[woodwa5]

Well I have contacted them on several occassions and each time they have promised me somebody will call me back. This hasn't happened so I am going to send them a letter rejecting their offer and give them 5 working days before i file at court

[Mistermind]

This is peak holiday season, even for the paper shufflers in Egg Tower, so understaffing could slow down normal response even further.

 

A manager will read your letter and consider his options. A display of resolution and clarity will discourage him from pointlessly trying it on. It can also be pointed out, that any legal process started will cost money, and this money will be added onto the claim from Egg. No harm throwing in a mention that you look forward to confronting the barrister who will be paid £1,000 by Egg to lose in court.

 

Egg law department will have more appetite for posturing and brinkmanship and delay trying their luck, so if the commercial manager is persuaded to pay up, that would be the quickest.

 

Good luck.

[woodwa5]

Points taken, this is my latest letter:

 

Dear Sir/madam,

 

Thank you for your letter dated XXth July 2009 in which you state you have completed your investigation and informing me of your findings. I will deal with your findings in two parts. The first part concerns your offer and the second with regards to making payments to a third party (Capquest).

 

I reject your offer of £. As you can see from the attached spreadsheet there were 9 charges and as such I intend to file a claim for the £180 (not the 160 you suggest in your letter, you missed one on 20/02/2004) charges and I hereby reject the offer which you made in your previous correspondence.

 

The second point in your letter regards paying any charges refunded to Capquest who are a debt Collection Agency. Yet I again I draw your attention to the fact that Capquest own the debt (I am currently in dispute with them regarding the legalities of the debt) and a check on my credit record today certainly shows that my balance with Egg is £0. This therefore makes Capquest a third party to which you have no right to give money on my behalf. Furthermore, should you make any contact with them on my behalf that would be a breach of the Data Protection Act as I do not give you any permission to process my data with them or make any contact with them to discuss me or my account. Should you ignore this final warning then I will have no alternative than to report you to the relevant authorities disclosing the numerous warnings I have given you regarding this whilst continuing to pursue this claim through the courts.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

 

I will accept nothing other than payment of the charges in full. Please note that in an attempt to save court time I made phone calls on 15th 16th and 17th July to your company to clear up the final few issues and despite promises that I would be contacted back I am still waiting. I am prepared to accept 8% interest which as of today means the total refund should be £xxxx. I will not accept you making any payments to a third party on my behalf and should you make any attempt to do so I will continue to pursue this case through the courts whilst taking action against you for breaches of the data protection act. If you wish to pay the money through a BACS transfer then my bank details are attached. You have until 31st July 2009 to make the payment into my account. On this day I will be attending XXXXX County court to file my N1 and begin the claim against you which I will pursue to its conclusion,

[Mistermind]

Opening up a new battlefront on Egg-Capquest exchange of your info could delay refund of penalty charges. If the junior clerk logs this as a bundle of many disputes, your file may go to the bottom of the basket, and until all points are agreed no action may be taken. Better to get paid first, then battle stations for Round Two. The key point is that if Egg paid Capquest but not yourself, then Egg remains liable in court to pay out a second time. The court does not recognise payments Egg made to Uncle Tom Cobley when their obligation is to refund your good self.

 

Statutory Interest is at 8% per annum, which Egg has always conceded. So if the average age of the charges were two years, then total interest is 16%.

 

Good luck.