Arrow Global/Brian Carter court proceedings - need help!***Discontinued***

[citizenB]

Ok, claim issed 13 August 2012 + 5 for service = 18 August + 14 to ackwnowledge = 01 September + 14 to submit defence = 33 days from date of issue to submission of defence.

 

You have sent off the CPR31.14. IMHO you should also have requested a statement of account showing how the balance being claimed had accrued. However, if you have sent the letter already !!

 

The PoC is a shambles as is expected from Bryan Carter.

[citizenB]

In veiw of the very brief PoC - you could if you wish, make Bryan Carter work for his fee !! It is my understanding that he is being used to file these claims only. As soon as a Defence is submitted in whatever form, the claims are being taken back in house by Arrow Global and their "Litigation team"

One avenue open to you is to make them replead their case, using the submission below. But it might be worth holding on at least for 10 days to see what happens in respect of your CPR requests and also for other cagger input. You have until 1st September to acknowledge the claim (and a further 14 days after that for your defence) so you do have a little time in hand.

Defence

The Defendant takes issue with the Claimants pleadings. The Claim is a Bulk Centre claim, however, the rules on pleading apply even to the Bulk Centre and furthermore the Bulk Centre rules and guidelines state that if you cannot properly particularise the claim in 1024 characters then you should not use the Bulk Centre to issue the claim. The Claimants pleadings amount to circa 400 characters, leaving at least 600 characters available for the Claimant to plead adequately. The Defendant is embarrassed by the Claim, which faces him.

This is the information you are looking to obtain. It might be worth drafting a CPR Part 18 request - I will sort something out over the weekend.

Have you ever received a default notice in respect of this account ?

Do you know if there are any charges included in that sum they are claiming

Were you advised that the account had been assigned - eg did anyone write to you and tell you this.

Do you know when the last payment was made to the account ?

Was there any PPI that might have been missold?

[citizenB]

Yes, I will draft up a CPR part 18 for the other information you require.

 

In theory, if they havent complied with your s78 request then they shouldnt have issued the claim.. !!

[citizenB]

This is one of the problems with Original Creditors passing the accounts round DCAs. Again in theory, Moorcroft should have requested the agreement from the OC. It could be that they actually did and in doing so, they were replaced with the next DCA on the list.

 

IMHO, if the paperwork isnt in order, there should be a bar on them being assigned and once an account is disputed due to lack of compliance - they should not be permitted to destroy any documents, regardless of their destruction policies, because it is very likely that litigation will at some stage take place.

 

Yes, they mention the agreement in their PoC so you should send the CPR31.14 for that.

 

CPR18 is used for information - depending on the answers given, you can then ask for the documents. Long winded I know - but those are the rules !!

 

Anyway, here is a draft for you. It might be worth waiting until tomorrow sometime for further comments. I have posted both a word and pdf document. I will try and round up some caggers who are more legally aware.

 

 

 

 

Document for forum.pdf

 

 

DOcument 2 for forum.doc

[citizenB]

Very good advice from phaitun -

[citizenB]

You do need to sign the CPR letters, yes.. either over tamper proof strips or a grid of.

 

XXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXX

 

Or you can use your intials which always looks smart..

 

 

citizenBcitizenBcitizenBcitizenB

citizenBcitizenBciitzenBcitizenB

citizenBcitizenBcitizenBcitizenB

citizenBcitizenBcitizenBcitizenB

[citizenB]

Thanks mate, I paid for the tamper proof one off this site last night so I am all sorted. Personally do you think it wise that I send the CPR18 and 31.14 separately to prove I sent two different letters or will they be ok sent together in same envelope. Sending special delivery of course.

 

 

Excellent

 

Hmm, yes now that is a question..

 

Why not just put a covering letter in with both CPRs.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ALL THE COURT REFERENCES ETC..

 

Please find enclosed

 

CPR31.14

CPR18

 

I look forward to your early responses.

 

Etc, etc,

 

 

That way you only need pay one Special/recorded Delivery postal fee

 

IMHO, I would if at all possible pay for the special delivery postage as you are guaranteed a signature.

[citizenB]

Yes, you must write to the Court Manager and enclose a copy of the letter that confirms an extension of time.

 

I have popped a draft for you below. Can you please check the address against your court claim to make sure it is being sent to the correct address. Enclose a copy of Bryan Carter's response - I would highlight the bit where he says that they will give a further 14 days from date of RECEIPT by you, of the documents. Send a copy of the letter below to BC.

 

 

 

 

 

Her Majesty’s Court Service

County Court Bulk Centre

Northampton County Court

St Katherine’s House

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

FAO: The Court Manager

Dear Sir or Madam

Re:

Case No:

Claimant’s ref:

NOTIFICATION OF EXTENSION OF FILING DATE – CPR15.5

I have been in contact with the Claimant's solicitors in respect of documents requested under CPR31.14.

It would appear they have now been requested from the Claimant but these will take some time to arrive .

It has been agreed that due to the fact they are unable to provide these documents, vital to my defence, in time for the original filing date of XXXX, that an extension in accordance with CPR15.5 will be appropriate.

As you can see from the attached letter from XXXXXX they have confirmed that once they have supplied the documents to me, I will be permitted a further 14 days in which to submit my defence.

I trust this is acceptable.

Yours faithfully

Enclosed : copy letter from BC - solicitor to claimant XYZ

[citizenB]

Their closing paragraph reads.... "It was the policy of the original creditor. Visa Classic credit card, to issue agreements on or around the date of contract, statements throughout the duration of the agreement, and notices of default and termination at the relevant times. The Claimant beleives a notice of assignment was sent to you in or around the time of assignment, and you were referred to your own records for such documentation."

 

 

 

If the claimant did indeed send this information - there will be a record of it at the very least on their communications log. So yes, pretty standard response.

[citizenB]

It is likely that in this instance they will send the documents by recorded post so there is a record.

 

If they dont, then I suspect the onus is on you to be honest about the day of receipt you might even be advised to acknowledge receipt so the count down can start.

 

I am not sure what happens if they dont send the documents. Their response to you earlier was quite clear, they will give you 14 days from receipt. In which case it is likely the case could either be stayed indefinitely or you personally could probably ask for a strike out on the basis that they dont have this information.

 

You really would need to take advice from andyorch, Mike_Hawke or other caggers with legal backgrounds/experience.

[citizenB]

Do you ever have days when something made perfect sense only to realise your fingers overtook your brain when typing!

 

Always

[citizenB]

I guess you could rewrite point 4 as follows:-

 

4: I have asked for disclosure pursuant to CPR 31.14 and the Claimant has not yet fulfilled request, other than to provide an ambigous letter/communication advising that the "claimant will permit an extra 14 days from disclosure of documents for the defendant to submit a defence". Still not providing any confirmed date for them supplying the documents. It is my understanding that such a "variable date" is not permitted under CPR15.5 as the parties to the claim are only allowed to extend by 28 days. After which time, only the court can extend further on application.

 

4a: Having contacted the Court for guidance, I was advised that it would be in my interests to submit a defence as the Claimant would be able to file for a default judgment, as there was no clear instruction to extend.

 

How does that sound ?

[citizenB]

I think you should have made a CCA request as soon as you received the first letter from AG which would have left them in breach of s78 had they failed to comply.

 

If you have a CPR request in then they should respond to that.

 

If previous DCAs have failed to comply with an s78 request, I wonder if there is a problem retrieving a copy !

[citizenB]

Hi Cb

 

I don't believe there has been any contact from AG with the exception of the claim..... post #1 contains a brief outline of events.

 

Perhaps Dcat can confirm

 

 

So no communication to advise they were the new owners or anything at all. Just straight into a claim ?

 

Sheesh..

[citizenB]

I imagine your next communication will be from Arrow, advising that their litigation department will be taking over and all correspondence in respect of the claim will now need to go to them.

 

I find it very strange indeed that they do this !!

[citizenB]

It looks good if you agree to mediation. Could be the other side wont want to. From what I hear, it is sometimes a pointless excercise, but as it is free !!

 

I thought there was a tick box on the AQ if the parties wanted mediation.. was there, did you tick it.. have you received a copy of the opposition's AQ, did they say yes/no ?

[citizenB]

I forgot it was part of that, thanks. I've ticked it and so have they so looks like I have my answer on that one. Cheers.

 

It is the opposition who should be making the first move in any mediation as it is they who have brought the claim.

[citizenB]

This will be in small claims, so costs would be limited..

[citizenB]

Sounds ok to me

[citizenB]

Ok thanks Andy.

 

Finally then, my case is being heard in just over a weeks time. Anyone got any general advice or tips to help things go smoothly?

 

Still not heard anything else from AG. Is it normal that they wouldn't send me anything they are wanting to rely on in court? I have still not received a copy of the agreement or anything else from them relating the account in question. Will this in itself help my case?

 

Sorry for all the questions but I really am grateful for your time.

 

Just be yourself - go smartly dressed (this isnt an excuse to go and splash out on a new outfit, just dont turn up in a tracksuit!!)

 

Make sure you have all your original paperwork, such as it is as you havent been provided with anything and as far as I can see, you are still not even sure who the original creditor is or what this debt is. You certainly know for sure you didnt entere into an agreement with Arrow Global and no one has advised you who the OC was. You have not received a Notice of Assignment from Arrow at any time.

 

You should type up for yourself some notes, perhaps if you can anticipate some of the questions so you can have your responses to hand.

 

Organise what paperwork you do have so you can find it easy. Judges will expect nerves - what they are looking for is honesty in replies. Try not to interrupt either the Judge or the opposition. It can be very tempting to sometimes !!

 

The Judge will ask the opposition to speak first as it is their claim - then he will ask for your side of things.

[citizenB]

Excellent - wishing you the very best

[citizenB]

Oh brilliant. Yes, do make sure that you check with the court that they have indeed discontinued. But that letter should be sufficient.

 

Excellent.. what a weight off your mind.

 

I will amend your thread title when you have confirmation off the court.

[citizenB]

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