Cap1 & CCA return

[car2403]

HAK - my calculator makes it £5,342.55 but it's not always 100% accurate so use with caution

 

This is right on a simple loan - just google "apr calculator" and there's loads of different options which will confirm.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

You will like this one.

 

Other half took out a loan 69 months ago for £15000.

She has been paying just under 300 quid a month

 

So payed just over £20500

 

Worked out that £15000 at 9.5% APR over 69 months is £19586 so basically paid loan of and they owe her over a grand and ther is still 15 monthly payments due.

 

On the credit agreement they have put total amount payable is just over £25K....

 

Going bank tomomorow and going to go ape!!!

 

If they do not play ball is there anything in the CCA that says I can get me money back...or can I threaten them with Court action.

 

One last thing this account has never missed a payment

 

HAK

[pt2537]

You will like this one.

 

Other half took out a loan 69 months ago for £15000.

She has been paying just under 300 quid a month

 

So payed just over £20500

 

Worked out that £15000 at 9.5% APR over 69 months is £19586 so basically paid loan of and they owe her over a grand and ther is still 15 monthly payments due.

 

On the credit agreement they have put total amount payable is just over £25K....

 

Going bank tomomorow and going to go ape!!!

 

If they do not play ball is there anything in the CCA that says I can get me money back...or can I threaten them with Court action.

 

One last thing this account has never missed a payment

 

HAK

HAK why dont you run the figures through the OFT dualcalc program mate? that way you will get the correct answers on the button,

 

if you want skype me and i will run the figures for you

[pt2537]

all i can say is, oooooooh dear , they be well in the brown smelly stuff with that agreement,

[millymollymoo]

Hi Milly, doesn't it state though that the 2004 regs determine that the prescribed terms must be together as a whole, which is basically what Peter was saying, as these came into effect, I believe in 2005. Magda

 

 

Hi magda:)

 

yes I agree. I deleted out the original questions I asked the prof, basically it was why he said sig should be on same page thats all in the 2002 edition of his book. Weird thing is he mentions 2004 agreement regs and yet when he wrote the 2002 edition the 1983 regulations were in force. So odd he says that!!!

 

Anyway,peter explained all of it after that and that the sig box could be anywhere In the letter it says 'appears to' - basically his interpretation of the agreement regs not concrete if you get my drift.

 

I do believe that importnat terms should not be on the reverse but thats me okay, as they are it seems in many agreements on the reverse in other docs bought to court by solicitors swearing on oath that they formed part of the original agreement, there does not seem to be much to sway that and judges seem to accept all this from the creditors.

 

I still am going to ask the prof some other questions.

 

millY XX

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Can somebody do me a big favour.

 

Can you work out the interest out on 9.5% APR on £15000 over 84 months.

 

Cheers

HAK

 

 

Hi Hak

Can't possibly be done HAK the APR is dependant on the total charge for credit we would need to know what other itrems were included in the tcc in order to find the intrerest rate.

 

Peter

[pt2537]

Hi Hak

Can't possibly be done HAK the APR is dependant on the total charge for credit we would need to know what other itrems were included in the tcc in order to find the intrerest rate.

 

Peter

Hi Peter,

 

ive seen the agreement, lets just say, the total charge for credit factors in PPI at a cost of circa 6K but the problem is that there is no PPI in the credit, the repayments are wrong too as they clearly say that the PPI is included in the payment.

 

 

the credit is clearly set out and there is definatley NO ppi anywhere within the credit, so i think they have a weee problem, as the figures are 6k out

[Peterbard]

Hi Peter,

 

ive seen the agreement, lets just say, the total charge for credit factors in PPI at a cost of circa 6K but the problem is that there is no PPI in the credit, the repayments are wrong too as they clearly say that the PPI is included in the payment.

 

 

the credit is clearly set out and there is definatley NO ppi anywhere within the credit, so i think they have a weee problem, as the figures are 6k out

 

HiPT

be a lot simpler if i had the reaynents.

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

Hi Peter,

 

ive seen the agreement, lets just say, the total charge for credit factors in PPI at a cost of circa 6K but the problem is that there is no PPI in the credit, the repayments are wrong too as they clearly say that the PPI is included in the payment.

 

 

the credit is clearly set out and there is definatley NO ppi anywhere within the credit, so i think they have a weee problem, as the figures are 6k out

 

HI Again sorry just re read tuour post

 

Bit confused the ppi is in the TCC so it wouldnt apear in the credit would it?

Do you mean it is in the credit as well?

 

Peter

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Peter Ive justed PM you

[foolishgirl]

 

as the figures are 6k out

 

Whoa, HAK - you've won the bank lottery!

[Peterbard]

Hio

 

oh dear oh dear

 

do you want me to post on here or pm

 

Peter

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Post it on here

 

Please

[Peterbard]

HI Paul

 

total credit 15000 OK

 

repayments 298.65 OK

 

Total amopunt payable 25086.6 OK

 

APR 17.32% oh oh

 

What they have done is include the insurance premium costs in the total charge for credit and not factored it into the evaluation of the APR.

 

In other words if they would have done the calculation with the instalments at 241 84 they would have been coorect in that the APR would have been 9.45% but the the tap would have been wrong.

 

YOu have been scandelously misslead about the value of your loan IMO.

 

If they say we forgot to put the figure in the credit then that is admiting they have missrepresetned a priescribed terms and anyway if they did that the APR would work out at 6.5% so no go there either.

 

Good hunting

 

Peter

[Having_A_Knightmare]

HI Paul

 

total credit 15000 OK

 

repayments 298.65 OK

 

Total amopunt payable 25086.6 OK

 

APR 17.32% oh oh

 

What they have done is include the insurance premium costs in the total charge for credit and not factored it into the evaluation of the APR.

 

In other words if they would have done the calculation with the instalments at 241 84 they would have been coorect in that the APR would have been 9.45% but the the tap would have been wrong.

 

YOu have been scandelously misslead about the value of your loan IMO.

 

If they say we forgot to put the figure in the credit then that is admiting they have missrepresetned a priescribed terms and anyway if they did that the APR would work out at 6.5% so no go there either.

 

Good hunting

 

Peter

 

Thanks Peter.

 

I will let you know the outcome after lunch.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Sorry Peter just one more thing...

 

Do they normally charge you interest on PPI

 

HAK

[Peterbard]

HI

 

If the iterest is optional then it can be included within yur loan (total credit ) adn it would draw interst at the same rate.

 

If the PPI was a condition of the loan then it would be included in the total charge for credit (as in your case and would not draw any interest ) however as we have seen it has a dramatic effect on the APR.

This is of course what the APR was designed to do to show the true cost of the loan.

 

Peter

[lexis200]

Ok, I've seen it before somewhere, but I think I need a quick lesson on APR.

 

I've always assumed it was simply a case of monthly interest rate x 12 (or thereabouts), or as with this loan example, it had to be a set figure, which you'd assume would mean they'd have sorted out in advance that if someone wants to borrow 15k, then the most the monthly payment can be to keep the APR correct is x.

 

I remember (vaguely) that the first assumption is not right (but can't remember why), but for the second one, how do they manage to be out by such a huge amount? Do they seriously do this stuff on the fly without guidelines, or is it a case of trying to slip it past the customer?

 

Not sure if I've made too much sense there, but hopefully someone can decipher the meaning!

 

Lexis:)

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

No it is quite a complex equation and takes into account the amount of installments the preiods of payment and the time taken to reapy the total creit as well as any gaps or irregular installments.

If it is an agreement with no ohtther charges for credit other than interst yu can use the formula =(G7^12-1)*100 to give you the APR just type it into your spreadsheet pointing to a vacent cell where you enter your monthly interst rate.

 

Peter

[phatram]

I've just checked two loan agreements, one NR , one Egg and they are both wrong.

[MAGDA]

Hi magda:)

 

yes I agree. I deleted out the original questions I asked the prof, basically it was why he said sig should be on same page thats all in the 2002 edition of his book. Weird thing is he mentions 2004 agreement regs and yet when he wrote the 2002 edition the 1983 regulations were in force. So odd he says that!!!

 

Anyway,peter explained all of it after that and that the sig box could be anywhere In the letter it says 'appears to' - basically his interpretation of the agreement regs not concrete if you get my drift.

 

I do believe that importnat terms should not be on the reverse but thats me okay, as they are it seems in many agreements on the reverse in other docs bought to court by solicitors swearing on oath that they formed part of the original agreement, there does not seem to be much to sway that and judges seem to accept all this from the creditors.

 

I still am going to ask the prof some other questions.

 

millY XX

 

Hi Milly, Well done for everything you have done so far, the professor seems like a very nice man and very good of him to reply.

 

Magda

[foolishgirl]

Ok, I've seen it before somewhere, but I think I need a quick lesson on APR.

 

Hi

 

No it is quite a complex equation and takes into account the amount of installments the preiods of payment and the time taken to reapy the total creit as well as any gaps or irregular installments.

If it is an agreement with no ohtther charges for credit other than interst yu can use the formula =(G7^12-1)*100 to give you the APR just type it into your spreadsheet pointing to a vacent cell where you enter your monthly interst rate.

 

 

Peter, is there a dummies guide anywhere on how to put formulae for different sorts of credit/interest agreements into Dualcalc or an Excel spreadsheet as, like Lexis, I always feel confused on anything other than calculating a simple interest loan?

[Peterbard]

I've just checked two loan agreements, one NR , one Egg and they are both wrong.

 

Hi

 

Perhaps there are fees or charges that would be included in the APR.

Or it may be they have it wrong.

THe formula is i assure you correct.

 

Peter

[lexis200]

Glad it's not just me foolishgirl:)

 

And thanks for the explanation peterbard:)

[phatram]

Hi

 

Perhaps there are fees or charges that would be included in the APR.

Or it may be they have it wrong.

THe formula is i assure you correct.

 

Peter

 

Not doubting the formula mate. I very much doubt the banks and their ability to be correct .