washing

[spacemarine]

i have been a tenant for 30 years (protected) i now have a new landlord and owner of the property

i have used an upstairs patio area for my washing since i have lived here. i got a letter saying that they had a report that i was hanging out my washing and this is a breach of the lease and to stop or they wil take further action

now i dont have any new tenacy agreement with my new landlord so how can i be doing anything wrong?

also the new owner has asked the tenants next door to keep a dosier on my family to inform them if i do anything wrong, they are trying to get me out but i have not done anything wrong they want to sell the property

could any body help with what i should do

thanks

[Snorkerz]

You do not need to have signed a lease with the new owner, everything in your original lease still applies, but with the new owners name in place of your original landlord.

 

If it was 30 years ago, do you still have the original agreement? Check what the terms and conditions say about laundry - or anything that might be construed similar. I would write a polite and professional letter to the landlord saying that you want to make sure that you do not breach any more of the lease conditions and ask for a copy of the lease. That way, you have a copy if anything does kick off. If the landlord fails to supply a copy (he doesn't have to) then ask the local councils 'Tenancy Relations Officer' or 'Private Rentals Officer' (or similar) for help - the landlord may be more forthcoming to someone in authority.

[spacemarine]

thankyou for your reply

i only have a written letter confirming that i can use the area for washing from my prevoius landlord,

it does not say on my agreement anything about washing.

surely though if i still follow the original rent agreement under a proted tenacy then the new land lord cannot give me a new agreement with different terms applied

[Snorkerz]

I agree that he new landlord can not impose new terms.

 

I am not sure if the 'letter' from your ex-landlord counts as contract, or whether it can be withdrawn by the landlord.

 

However, I stand by my suggestion that you write to the new landlord asking for a copy of the (original) contract - because this will make him realise that whatever lease he is refering to, is not yours!

[45002]

i have been a tenant for 30 years (protected) i now have a new landlord and owner of the property

i have used an upstairs patio area for my washing since i have lived here. i got a letter saying that they had a report that i was hanging out my washing and this is a breach of the lease and to stop or they wil take further action

now i dont have any new tenacy agreement with my new landlord so how can i be doing anything wrong?

also the new owner has asked the tenants next door to keep a dosier on my family to inform them if i do anything wrong, they are trying to get me out but i have not done anything wrong they want to sell the property

could any body help with what i should do

thanks

 

Hello spacemarine

 

Do you mean you have a Regulated tenancy,under 1977 Rent act ? if yes there may be a copy of

the original rent agreement held by The rent service/voa office,if your rent is registered as a fair rent.

 

https://ebusiness.voa.gov.uk/err/SearchRegisterForm.aspx

 

The new LL cannot impose or force a new tenancy agreement on you,it would be against the law to impose a new tenancy agreement on a existing regulated tenant or lease holder.

 

Can i ask just out of interest are any of existing tenants,regulated tenants or long lease holders like yourself.

Edited August 21, 2011 by 45002

[Aequitas]

If you have been hanging the washing out for 30 years I do not see how the landlord can stop you now.

[andydd]

If you have been hanging the washing out for 30 years I do not see how the landlord can stop you now.

 

Agreed, the rule lof Estoppel may well apply, which basically says youve been doing something for so long its a bit late now to suddenly complain about it.

 

Now Im not sure about rented properties but in leasehold properties, if the tenant pays and the landlord accepts ground rent each year, this is taken as an admission that all is well and he has accepted any alleged breaches.

 

My knowledge is based on leasehold properties, where someone has bought a property but doesnt own the land so has to pay a freeholder, normally ground rent and service charges, but the obligations within the lease are roughly the same, and yes, hanging out washing is often in there, my lease says something about that.

 

Andy

[Kennedy]

The thing about the neighbours keeping tabs on you is wrong! Have you considered going to the CAB?

[andydd]

The thing about the neighbours keeping tabs on you is wrong! Have you considered going to the CAB?

 

Not sure what you mean by 'wrong', the landlord is perfectly entitled to ask this, although most people with any sense would say no, if they were to get too closely involved in their 'spying' they lay themselves open to claims of harrasment and this could be taken against the landlord too.I still believe the Estoppel element may be the strongest defence.. See here > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EstoppelAndy

[stu007]

Hi

 

Wouldnt what the landlord has done by involving the neighbours be

 

1. Invasion of Privacy.

2. Harrassment.

3. A Breach of the Data Protection Act as he has no right discussing your problem with said neighbours.

 

Yous should seek advice from CAB

[mariner51]

Stu,

does membership of HomeWatch or FarmWatch make us all guilty of what you suggest or Police Informers (unpaid)?

I would need strong arguments for your 3 points.

 

I see no suggestion new LL is trying to add a new condition to the Lease only enforce a pre-existing one. Copy of orig Lease would confirm. Previous LL letter may be regarded as a 'waiver'.

Who else (other Ts) have right of access to patio area. New LL may have had a complaint from another recent T.

[andydd]

Hi

 

Wouldnt what the landlord has done by involving the neighbours be

 

1. Invasion of Privacy.

2. Harrassment.

3. A Breach of the Data Protection Act as he has no right discussing your problem with said neighbours.

 

Yous should seek advice from CAB

 

1. No such law (in uk)

 

2. Yes, although from what the landlord has done so far unlikely to amount to this.

 

3. Prob would depend on whether this was a company that had applied for permission to hold data, although maybe similar to Debt Collectors who sometimnes used to call on neighbours but this action whilst not illegal is certainly frowned upon.

 

There is also the 'right to quiet enjoyment', this is a standard clause in most (long if not short) leases and basically is similar to harrasment.

 

We appear to be going a bit of track here though, the original question is about hanging out washing, it is true that many leases do not allow this and in theory a landlord can take a tenant to court and even force forfeiture of their home in extreme examples, again, my knowledge is about LONG leasehold properties but I believe the same applies to short term rents/leases.

 

See here for a list of Court (LVT) decisions regarding breach of (long) leases > http://www.lease-advice.org/lvtdecisions/tables.asp?table=6

 

You will find there are many realkting to wasahing and also lamintae flooring, making noise, subletting,owning pets , etc

 

Andy

[spacemarine]

many thanks for your replys

the situation i find myself in is quite complicated my flat is in one building and is owned by my landlord but the freehold is owned by the person next door as well asthe house next to mine, when both properties where sold i was in their way as i could not be moved out as im a protected tenant, so im sitting on their profit cause they cant sell the flat for the true market value so the owners are trying to make our lives a misery they complained to my landlord about the washing and they are keeping a dossier on my family. the owner said if i ddid one thing wrong then the landlord would have me out in a flash ( iwish i had that on tape) I find that I am now living with this costant fear of my family making too much noise or if we are doing something wrong, it has ruined my wifes health as she has had a suspected heart attack due to all the stress, we are just a normal family we dont have raves in the middle of the night. i have asked for leagle advice and they told me to get a copy of the new lease

so things are going forward.

thank you every body who has helped

[andydd]

many thanks for your replys

the situation i find myself in is quite complicated my flat is in one building and is owned by my landlord but the freehold is owned by the person next door as well asthe house next to mine, when both properties where sold i was in their way as i could not be moved out as im a protected tenant, so im sitting on their profit cause they cant sell the flat for the true market value so the owners are trying to make our lives a misery they complained to my landlord about the washing and they are keeping a dossier on my family. the owner said if i ddid one thing wrong then the landlord would have me out in a flash ( iwish i had that on tape) I find that I am now living with this costant fear of my family making too much noise or if we are doing something wrong, it has ruined my wifes health as she has had a suspected heart attack due to all the stress, we are just a normal family we dont have raves in the middle of the night. i have asked for leagle advice and they told me to get a copy of the new lease

so things are going forward.

thank you every body who has helped

 

Hi...So your situation is that the owner ofthe flat is your landlord.There is a seperate person who owns the freehold (who is in effect your landlords landlord).Who is putting the pressure on you ?Andy

[spacemarine]

yes thats the bottom line, a rather nasty little woman who is a justice of the peace believe it or not

she wants us out so that she can sell the flat

[mariner51]

Does your immediate LL own the property leasehold or is he renting & sub-letting from neighbour (primary LL)? Is any Ground rent payable?

I think OP needs local, prof advice.

[45002]

yes thats the bottom line, a rather nasty little woman who is a justice of the peace believe it or not

she wants us out so that she can sell the flat

i have been a tenant for 30 years (protected) i now have a new landlord and owner of the property

i have used an upstairs patio area for my washing since i have lived here. i got a letter saying that they had a report that i was hanging out my washing and this is a breach of the lease and to stop or they wil take further action

now i dont have any new tenacy agreement with my new landlord so how can i be doing anything wrong?

also the new owner has asked the tenants next door to keep a dosier on my family to inform them if i do anything wrong, they are trying to get me out but i have not done anything wrong they want to sell the property

could any body help with what i should do

thanks

 

 

 

Hello spacemarine

 

Do you mean you have a Regulated tenancy under 1977 rent act ? and is your rent registered as a fair rent under the same act ?

 

Does your rent register show up when you enter your full post code in the below link ?

 

https://ebusiness.voa.gov.uk/err/Sea...isterForm.aspx

 

Can i ask just out of interest do you know if any of existing tenants in the same block/house as you, have a Regulated tenancy or are long leaseholders ?

Edited August 23, 2011 by 45002

[spacemarine]

my immediate landlord owns the propety that i live in but not the building that the flat is in

[spacemarine]

question 1 yes

question 2 yes

question 3 im the only tenant in the building the flat downstairs is up for sale and empty the existing tenants next door are not protected tenants

 

my tenacy began before 1989

[45002]

question 1 yes

question 2 yes

question 3 im the only tenant in the building the flat downstairs is up for sale and empty the existing tenants next door are not protected tenants

 

my tenacy began before 1989

 

Thanks for the reply

 

As you have a Regulated tenancy same as me,i can see why your new LL wants you out,to up the rent with new T.

 

Your new LL will never be able to get full market rent for your flat,due to the Rent act and will never be able to evict you due to you having a Protected Tenancy.

 

If there was a tenancy agreement when you 1st moved in 30 years ago,that would still be valid and your new LL is stuck with it,dont sign any think your new LL gives to you.

 

If your new LL start to harass you,keep a diary of goes on,pictures,videos of any damages caused by the LL,even voicing recording if you have a Dictaphone of any verbal threat.

 

In the case of harassment by a LL,you would need to contact your local council housing dept,private tenancy enforcement unit,they are the people who can take actions against a LL for harassment or illegal evictions..

[spacemarine]

today i sent my landlord a letter asking how puzzled i am that after putting the washing out in the same place for 30 years, that i have in some way contravened my tenacy agreement, I have also asked to see a sighned copy of my tenacy and to please highlight the section that forbids me to hang out my washing

contravening the tenacy.

[andydd]

today i sent my landlord a letter asking how puzzled i am that after putting the washing out in the same place for 30 years, that i have in some way contravened my tenacy agreement, I have also asked to see a sighned copy of my tenacy and to please highlight the section that forbids me to hang out my washing

contravening the tenacy.

 

Well..if it were me I wouldnt of written that letter because you are admitted a breach, would of been best to say nothing and let them prove it, should it ever get that far.You may find the lease prohibits hanging out washing (just had a look at mine and it has same clause), althought whether a tenancy agreement does is another matter but It may say you have to abide by terms of lease.Andy

[45002]

As the OP has a Regulated tenancy and if there was a tenancy agreement,only that TA would be binding on the RT.

 

If the was a original tenancy agreement,The Rent service/voa may hold a copy.

 

Any lease holder agreement is the LL problem,not the RT !

[saturday night drive in]

well they ignored my letter and have now given me 7 days to stop hanging out my washing or they will take legal action

[45002]

well they ignored my letter and have now given me 7 days to stop hanging out my washing or they will take legal action

 

saturday night drive are you posting as spacemarine

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/member.php?86623-spacemarine

 

 

or saturday night drive ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?279321-fair-rent-increase&p=3152564#post3152564

 

Having 2 accounts is very confusing !