Ingeus

[Mr.P]

advisors are not allowed to pry into peoples private lives on facebook or any other social networking site

 

Beg to differ - If you are posting on publicly accessible sites, be it facebook, twitter, or even here, WP "advisers" and everyone else can read it. Once you've posted information on a site, it is no longer private by default.

[Mr.P]

My present advisor asked me at my first appointment with him what I was planning to do afterwards in the afternoon

 

"My dear boy, what I do outside this office is absolutely none of your [damned] business."

[Mr.P]

Three lines for a reconsideration and subsequent appeal.

 

1. The date of the FTA does not match up with the "activity" letter in your file.
   
2. The "activity" was not mandatory and the invitation to attend lacks the prescribed wording required by DWP provider guidance.
   
3. No letter had been issued for the alleged mandatory activity on the date specified.
   

"Good Reason" would simply be that you had not been notified of the correct date of the alleged mandatory activity.

[Mr.P]

You've posted the same question http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?402025-Work-Programme-Good-Reason-Letter - To keep advice all in one place, I'll post the response on that thread.

[Mr.P]

Strangely, I had a letter through this morning from the DWP saying there is no longer a doubt against my claim. Dunno what's happened there???

 

Common sense prevailed and they realised that you couldn't be sanctioned for an activity that hadn't taken place or that you had not been notified of ?

[Mr.P]

In general though a mandation has to be a clear single task, and yours clearly isn't.

 

From DWP WP Provider Guidance, Chapter 3a:

31. It is recommended that only one activity to be achieved per MAN.

32. For example; a participant is mandated to attend a specific appointment. The attendance at the appointment is the requirement, although you may include steps you expect them to achieve such as:

 

To find details of 5 jobs which would be applied for during the session

Update their cover letter/curriculum vitae (CV) ready to be sent with the applications in time for the specific appointment.

The appointment letter requiring ten job applications and registration with ten agencies, whilst excessive (in my opinion), is valid. Failure to complete without good reason could lead to a sanction. Finding ten live vacancies should be easy enough, finding ten genuine jobs that you have a chance of getting is another thing entirely.

 

Most agencies require a visit in person to their office to fill out paperwork and sign forms - I don't suppose the "adviser" has made any allowances for travel expenses.... (no, didn't think so)... In which case, I'd suggest sending emails to ten agencies enquiring about registering - You may well have to go outside your area if you've already registered with most of the local outfits.

 

If some of the live vacancies are agency "jobs", you'd still want to send a separate email to "register" - This way, you comply with the mandation.

[Mr.P]

Can one undertake part-time education whilst on the Work Programme?

Yes.... however, you will need to report this to Job Centre Plus, specify the start date and end date, and provide a copy of the Learning Agreement.

I did report to the JCP and they told they've got nothing to do with it and I need to report this to WP contractor.

 

To cover your back and bypass the incompetence of the WP provider, put it in writing to the JCP. You have then complied with the obligation to inform the DWP/JCP of a change in circumstances should they try to stitch you for an overpayment in the future. Depending on your hours of availability stated in your JSAg, you might need to get it amended.

 

A short letter to the WP contractor in question simply stating that "I am unavailable for mandatory appointments or activities on " will suffice - They do not control your life, so no real need to tell them why you are unavailable. Should the WP contractor then try to book you in for a mandatory activity, the DWP/JCP already have "good reason" on file.

[Mr.P]

You want to see what A4e are like on a good day.... Then again, maybe not.

[Mr.P]

The Job Centre Plus Front Line Adviser remains ill-informed.... unfortunately, if you fail to declare the change in circumstances to Job Centre Plus, including completing the relevant form, then you may end up with a Sanction Doubt.

 

From WP Provider Guidance, Chapter 5

Participant notifies provider of change of circumstances

1. You must notify Jobcentre Plus if the participant (or their representative)

tells you that:

• they have started work (this includes any part time work)

• they are sick

• the participant has died

• they have had an accident or been involved in an incident on your premises.

 

Actions

• Notify Jobcentre Plus of the change using the Change of Circumstances form (WP 07b)

• Where a participant informs you of a change of circumstance other than those listed above you are to direct them to report the change to Jobcentre Plus.

 

Consequence Failure to notify Jobcentre Plus may result in an overpayment of benefit to the participant.

 

Education, part time or full time, constitutes a "change in circumstances". Once the JCP has been notified, it is their responsibility to inform the provider via a WP07b - Doing it this way ensures that should the WP provider be foolish enough to mandate you to participate on a date that would conflict with your course, any benefit doubt raised should get overturned at the first post.

[Mr.P]

Can a single MAN encapsulate many activities.

 

Came across this DWP memo: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/work-programme-memo-122.pdf

 

• You have the option to include more than one mandatory activity on a MAN, but you must ensure that each activity is clearly set out and to avoid confusion we recommend that the number of activities be limited to no more than 5 activities per MAN.
  
• It is important to understand that if you choose to have more than one activity on a MAN then you run the risk that if you raise a sanction doubt, but the claimant appeals on the grounds that they found the MAN confusing, (possibly due to the amount of activities being deemed confusing) then you could lose an appeal.
  
• It remains our recommendation therefore that it is still best practice to restrict the number of mandatory activities to one activity per MAN.
  
• Each MAN must be in writing and contain the relevant conditionality and sanctions warning.
  

It is worth reading the DWP live Memos as many of them contain the latest "rules" that providers should be following.

[Mr.P]

So i'm wondering if they are going to drop me right in the ikky stuff (which will also drop them right in it too!), or will they fabricate it and give me a glowing report?

 

Nope. They will churn out a generic report that has been used countless times. The following memo is intended to improve the nature of the reports, but it probably hasn't filtered down to the front lines yet.

 

In May this year DWP began to issue requests for Exit Reports in respect of those claimants returning to Jobcentre Plus after 104 weeks on the Work Programme.

The clerical Exit Report process has been problematic and whilst our priority is to introduce an electronic process, a group has been set up to work together to urgently resolve some of the issues raised. One of the issues raised is that valuable time is being spent to action reminders when it could be spent completing the Exit report.

 

This Memo outlines the areas to be addressed and the immediate decision taken in respect of the reminder process following talking to both District Managers and providers this week.

 

Summary and action

Jobcentre Plus will stop sending you the Exit report reminders from Monday 1st July until further notice. Management Information will still be collected and monitored in terms of the achievement of the 10 day target for completing and returning the Exit Reports and this information will be shared with Jobcentre Plus colleagues.

 

The group will also:

 

• Investigate the possibility of providers receiving Exit Report requests more directly
  
• Seek to introduce a more user friendly Exit Report template
  
• Conduct some sample checking of the quality of the Exit reports
  
• Improve the guidance around the timescales for all activities within the process
  

In other words, the DWP find the exit reports submitted to date to be of poor quality of of little (if any) value. Reading between the lines of the above memo, they are telling providers to pull their socks up and submit individual reports within the required time frame.

[Mr.P]

Within the Flexible New Deal you could be sent onto a baloneous course, delivered by A4E or Working Links, and share a kindergarten class

 

Got shown a list of those "courses" and highlighted an eight week course in basic english spelling and grammar - Suggested that some of the A4e staff would benefit more from that particular activity than the majority of their clients.

[Mr.P]

Job club was always sourced out

 

Having been on the receiving end of "job club" activities (within the company I worked for) under both Tory and Labour schemes, the barrage of calls and speculative letters were a waste of time. Not one call or letter resulted in a job offer - Save your money and the (potential) employer's time.

[Mr.P]

My exit report said my only barrier was unemployment [...] they had nothing else to say

 

Another exit report to add to the growing pile - Perhaps the person filling out your exit report didn't see the memo from the DWP issued back in June:

 

Management Information will still be collected and monitored in terms of the achievement of the 10 day target for completing and returning the Exit Reports and this information will be shared with Jobcentre Plus colleagues.

 

The group will also conduct some sample checking of the quality of the Exit reports

 

Hopefully yours will be one selected for the sample and they get pulled up for a lack of detail.

[Mr.P]

kosebamse: Wait for the sanction letter from the JCP and then go through the reconsideration/appeal process. Point out that you had notified Ingeus in good time of a change of address and that you can not be held liable for their negligence. At the same time, lodge a formal complaint with the DWP regarding the incompetence of Ingeus in respect of failing to follow correct procedure and maintain accurate records.

 

As for part time education - You should be notifying the JCP as it comes under the heading of a "change of circumstances" and materially affects the hours you are available to look for work. Should Ingeus try to mandate and then sanction for an activity that would conflict with course work, the JCP will already have the information on record - All Ingeus needs to know is when you are available, so a letter stating when you are (un)available should suffice.

 

If they are wanting learning agreements and/or other documentation, I'd start to suspect they may be trying to claim ESF grants for something they did not do. You could ask on what grounds they require any learning agreements and how collecting personal information about yourself complies with the Data Protection Act in view of the fact you have not signed any DPA consent forms.

[Mr.P]

This is twice in the last few weeks where they have raised a doubt when they shouldn't have. Ingeus is a joke.

 

Time to send the DWP a formal complaint stating that these two benefit doubts are vexatious and clearly demonstrates that Ingeus has no real process in place to verify a claimant's attendance. These nugatory doubts serve no purpose other than to increase animosity towards the provider and waste valuable time of DWP staff.

 

May also prove worthwhile sending a copy to your local MP.

[Mr.P]

'do you know how to write an envelope?' and do you know what speculate means?

 

Sure I do. Now the question is.... Can you* spell them for me or do you need to go and get a dictionary ?

 

*] The "you" here is the imaginary "adviser".

 

The attitude of these snake oil salesmen is precisely the reason I recommend everyone records the meetings and demand copies of all documents at every opportunity. A red pen is a valuable weapon to be used to correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

 

A4e used to be fond of saying "we will treat you how we ourselves expect to be treated" - O.K. "You want to patronise and insult me, I reserve the right to reciprocate. Do you even know what 'patronise' means ?".

[Mr.P]

My advisor was reworking my CV a couple of months ago thinking they were something special

 

On my first one to one appointment, my "adviser" promised to produce a CV for me by the next meeting - Having already seen some of their publications, my reaction was: Hell will freeze over before I let you anywhere near my CV, and as you know nothing about my employment history, that day is a long way off.

[Mr.P]

regarding ingeus advisors asking questions like 'what you doing this afternoon?'.

 

My response would be: What I do outside this building is absolutely none of your business.

[Mr.P]

one of my friends got told by his ingeus advisor he has ADHD

 

If that had been put in writing, could get some mileage out of making a complaint to the General Medical Council - Unqualified 'erberts making a diagnosis and possibly recommending a course of treatment (would also fall foul of DWP guidelines)...

[Mr.P]

Today's liitle nugget of Ingeus fun is a redirect on job applications to a website called UKjobdiagnosis?????? not even allowed to apply for jobs anymore (now awaiting sanction) You have to register to get to job app which requires email and password. the password is never accepted. dont know if anyone else has had the pleasure of this wonderful system yet.

 

The give away that this is well dodgy is the location search box: "Enter city, state, or zip"

 

An american based scraping engine with a whole host of complaints against it. s c a m adviser.com/is-jobdiagnosis.com-safe.html should be warning enough not to enter any personal information, even an email address. If you get mandated to use it, fight tooth and nail and use dummy information & a throwaway email address.

 

Also worth reading the small print in the T&C:

We and our affiliates may use your contact information to send you marketing communications via email, telephone, direct mail or otherwise regarding services or products offered by us and our partners that we think you may find valuable.

 

Says it all - A data mining site that will sell your details on to others and open up the floodgates to spam and cold calls - I have worked very hard to keep contact info out of the hands of shysters and get very few PPI and [problem] callers.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Mr.P

[Mr.P]

WP's like Ingeus can hold your data for up to 7 years after you've left. I sincerely hope this was a misprint..

 

The seven year rule is a requirement of DWP & ESF contracts I'm afraid - Yet another reason to limit the amount of personal data you hand over. But look on the bright side. If you know you supplied a certain document and it doesn't appear in the bundle when you submit a SAR, make life difficult for them and report it to the ICO.

 

For anyone finishing with the WP, I'd strongly recommend sending off a SAR to the DWP and demand all data held by all third parties. I did, and it turned up quite a few false claims on the part of A4e staff. e.g. Threatened and abused staff - Strange that none of the alleged claims could be verified from the recordings I had made at all meetings (the tape started on entry to the building and only turned off on exiting).

[Mr.P]

all in all i feel like tellng ingeus i have rabies, then maybe they'll leave me alone xD

Nope, they'll just twist it to become a job opportunity.

 

Portland Down research assistant. Accommodation and meals provided in a secure, safe, and clean environment.

[Mr.P]

The crux of the issue is simple, get as many participants together with as few staff as possible, repeat this as often as possible and you have a lot of statistics for the auditors.

 

Remember the WP providers are "for profit" companies and will always maximise their profits by any means possible, even to the detriment of participants.

 

The answer to this is to get as many participants as possible to demand one to one "help" and tie up the staff in providing "guidance" - If twenty people can waste the time of as many staff in pointless tasks of zero or minimal benefit, it costs the provider. It also has the knock on effect that the staff are unavailable to persecute other claimants. Oh, and if you can print stuff out on their paper, make good use of it by printing out the DWP guidance documents.

 

I deliberately set out to spend as much time at my final A4e appointment at got it to overrun by a good twenty minutes. The "adviser" then had a whole stack of DWP forms to fill in (and get her nappies changed) which must have taken another half hour. Unfortunately for the clients that followed, my meeting was the first one of the day...

[Mr.P]

[...]since there wasn't any start of finish time on the MAN for this supervised jobsearch does that mean I can attend the seetec office do five minutes jobsearch print out 3 or 4 jobs and then leave the premises and claim my £6.30 travel fare ?

 

Get a signed & dated note to say that you attended on headed paper or a comps slip. If no start or finish time is stipulated, turn up at your convenience and leave when you want. I'd strongly recommend getting travel expenses refunded on the way in then you don't get held to ransom.