Ingeus

[Mr.P]

Lol i've just thought the WP is a tory thing,

 

It was the last Labour government that set up the whole thing - It was called New Deal, then Flexible New Deal. Back then, it was a series of pointless appointments with an "adviser" and perhaps a few worthless "courses". The only difference between the old schemes and the current Work Programme is the way it is funded and the length of the sentence. The content is still the same, as are the people running it.

[Mr.P]

hi can anyone inform me as to the 3 days u can only have off with ingeus is it 3 days withing 2 year course or is 3 days withing a year or 3 times withing 6 months?

 

Two periods of sickness in any one 52 week period - This can be up to 14 days each time, but you must fill in a JSA28 and send it in to the DWP.

 

You can also take time off for a holiday - I think you are allowed 14 days per year within the UK. Again, you need to fill in a form at the JCP and it is advisable to inform the WP provider as they have been known to book a mandatory appointment and raise a benefit doubt (a.k.a. sanction) while someone is away.

If the holiday is overseas, then you would need to sign off and make a rapid reclaim on your return - There is no limit on how long you are away or how many breaks you can take... If you were to take more than 14 days off or wanted additional breaks within the UK, again, you would need to sign off and reclaim on your return.

[Mr.P]

From https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/264161/wp-pg-chapter-2.pdf:

Participant changes in circumstances during the Work Programme

7. During their 104 weeks on the Work Programme, some participants will have changes in their circumstances, and some may change benefit (Further information regarding participant changes of circumstance can be found in: Work Programme Guidance Chapter 5 – Change of Circumstances).

 

8. You remain responsible for supporting these participants regardless of these changes but the nature of their participation may change. You should ensure that the activities that you require of a participant are in line with the participation requirements defined by their current claimant group.

So in answer to your question(s)... Your participation in the Work Programme would become voluntary and you could not be mandated to undertake any activity. The 104 week clock would still be ticking from the date you originally engaged with the provider.

 

By moving over to the Support Group, you would be unlikely to be mandated to participate in any other scheme unless the rules change or you revert to a WRAG claimant.

[Mr.P]

Please have a read of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/264163/wp-pg-chapter-3a-22-october-2012.pdf There is specific wording that must be used for any mandatory appointment - Annex 1 of the above document is what should be followed.If the letter does not say "mandatory" and/or is missing the pescribed text and ESF+JCP logos, it is invalid.

[Mr.P]

jordanleeshaw: Unfortunately, an Ingeus "adviser" can mandate you to apply for X number of jobs and contact Y number of prospective employers if you are claiming JSA. The only way to get this reduced is to argue your case before the mandation letter is produced.

 

I would suggest logging on to the UJM, fire off five applications for any vacancy within your area and then pick up the Yellow Pages. Select ten companies at random and write a speculative letter and take them to your next meeting - Tell the "adviser" that you require him/her to supply the stamps or post the letters on your behalf.

 

Ingeus are not interested in your welfare, only the outcome payments they can claim when you start work.

 

You did the right thing by changing the password on your email account - Next time they ask you to log in, act flustered and "forget" your new password

 

No one has the right to access your private communications without your consent or a court order. If they had tried that with me, I would have given the "adviser" a right earful.... But then I'm a grumpy b**** and can get away with it

[Mr.P]

Advisor/adviser - Matters not (to me) which one you use. I wouldn't worry about spelling or grammar here, no one will think any less of you for it (just don't use txt sp33k).

 

Many people, myself included, recommend having a separate email account specifically for job applications and another for "official" communications - I have a dozen or so for various purposes, and one reserved exclusively for the likes of A4e (all emails to be sent to /dev/null ).

[Mr.P]

I wanted to say 'would it have not been easier for you to just call me?'

 

Phone calls cost money and take up time. emails are essentially free and can be spammed to multiple recipients at no extra cost.I had specified my preferred form of contact was by way of written letter. Phone calls got the response of "which part of in writing do you not understand.... Assuming you can write..."

This was done in full knowledge that it would cost them both time and money to post a letter.

[Mr.P]

they should already know if you have an NI number, but passports and bank account details? I wouldn't want to hand that information to Ingeus.

 

The N.I. number is one of the key bits of information that is passed to a WP provider when a claimant is referred. If Ingeus can not find it in their records or have lost it, someone in that office needs a darned good kick up the backside.

 

Not everyone will have a passport, and if a claimant has never travelled overseas, it is unlikely he/she would have one. Further more, how many unemployed people can actually afford the £72.50 fee that is charged for a passport.... If you haven't got one, and Ingeus are demanding that you do, insist that they foot the bill.

 

Bank account - Sure, most people will have at least one, but it is personal and confidential information and the details should only be given to trusted individuals with a genuine need. e.g. A payroll department to enable earnings to be paid via BACS.

 

An Ingeus "adviser" is neither trusted nor has a need for bank account details.

 

If you have a passport and a bank account, the only response that needs to be given is a simple "yes". Anything more should be robustly challenged.

[Mr.P]

I seem to recall joeski asked for advice about this holiday issue a week or so ago - A request for a mandatory reconsideration should be made on the grounds that the JCP had been informed of the holiday.

It is unfortunate that the friend had not been correctly informed (by the JCP) that the WP provider should have been notified of the holiday dates... If it were me, I would stress that the JCP had been correctly notified and omit to say anything about the WP provider.

 

Any adviser is going to be a little more restrained if there is an independent witness involved, and they also tend to be less threatening if they suspect a conversation is being recorded... However, I note that the DWP stance on recording meetings has shifted slightly. The latest missive is somewhat woolly in that it says that you are entitled to record conversations, but a WP provider may raise a benefit doubt because it might not meet their standards of "acceptable behaviour".

[Mr.P]

A Linkedin account is indeed similar to a facebook profile in many ways - Aimed more at garnering business contacts rather than social media "friends.

 

Like Facebook, any personal information that you post on a Linkedin profile has the potential to be viewed by anybody. To all intents, the information is placed in the public domain, so a WP employee has as much right to view the profile as the next person. If the question was "what commercial need does X have to view a Linkedin profile", the answer would have to be "additional validating evidence for a job outcome payment" - Grounds for a complaint, No.

 

If you don't want people knowing personal/private/confidential information, don't go posting it on the internet.

[Mr.P]

if you have an appointment with your ingeus advisor and you cancel your claim before the appointment would that mean you wouldn't have to attend the appointment and couldn't get sanctioned?

 

You could do what I did - Go to the appointment, push all the right buttons and get the adviser to throw a hissy fit. Get it all on tape and finish of the appointment with a couple of pithy verbal slap downs

 

Not recommended if you need to reclaim within the two year period from the original referral - The adviser would probably be gunning for your guts if you ever had to go back.

 

For my efforts, I got sanction letters from the DWP and was informed that they (yes, multiple sanctions) would remain on file for three months.

[Mr.P]

Claiming ESA will not release him from the clutches of Ingeus - He will still have to attend mandatory appointments and suffer the usual range of useless/worthless activities or risk being sanctioned. He couldn't be mandated to apply for or take up employment, but that is only a small concession..

 

Probably not the news he wants to hear.

[Mr.P]

I've been having a tough time and ended up getting so low to the point of getting bad suicidal thoughts and really in bad shape. My GP said I need to get well again so signed me off for 2 weeks and I sent off the sick note.

 

Being on ESA, I don't think a sick note will have any relevance - It may help to get the WP advisers off you back and allow you time to recover.

 

 

 

 

Wahoo.... Post number 5,000 in this thread !

[Mr.P]

my friend canceled his JSA claim today and the jobcentre receptionist asked if he was going to claim ESA, he said yes and he has send them a sick note dated from tomorrow. he has an appointment booked with ingeus tomorrow and he wants to know if he still has to attend even though he has closed his JSA claim down?

 

joeski; Good question.

 

At the moment, he will be in limbo until his ESA claim is processed and a decision is made as to whether he qualifies or not. Technically, he would still be an Ingeus "client", all be it in a different group. Highly unlikely he would be in the ESA Support Group, so he could still be subject to the mandation/sanction regime... Best thing to do is to email/ring the Ingeus "adviser" and just tell them that the JSA claim is closed as of the 24th Feb. Don't say anything as to why the JSA claim is closed or that ESA has been applied for.

[Mr.P]

"well don't forget, shirt pants and shoes, make sure you cut your nails make sure you do your hair up all nice and that, make sure you get a shave" then she paused a bit and said "and make sure you put some aftershave on as well, for the girls make sure it's men's"

 

should he get a change or complain?

 

I'd suggest a few pithy come backs.... "I'll go commando as I always do.... If your choice of aftershave is anything to go by, I'll forgo the shave."

 

As for hair cuts - Unlike many women, I have the option to get it done by mail order or I can just get a wax & buff - The tenner saved can be spent on more worthy causes.

[Mr.P]

I sometimes would hear clients saying stuff to the advisors, I over heard my advisor kick off at someone shouting "eh, lose the attitude", If that was me I'd of walked out,

 

My response would be a formal complaint to the head of Third Party Provisions (the DWP department that oversees the Work Programme) expressing concerns about breaches of client confidentiality. Even better to include name and specific details to support the complaint..

 

On overhearing an A4e "adviser" discussing someone's criminal record, I sent a letter to the DWP enquiring what steps they were taking to ensure Mr Wibble's details were kept confidential... At my next appointment, it was clear that s**t had hit the fan and someone had received a well deserved kick up the backside.

 

if you address your concerns to the right department, the staff in question will "lose the attitude" and perhaps take steps to protect your privacy.

[Mr.P]

Actually feel sick at having to go and be patronised

 

Insist that staff address you as Sir - It re-enforces the point that they are there to help you and that you are the client.

[Mr.P]

if I ever received another letter, phonecall, text message or otherwise from them, I would happily attend their office to smash their face in with a brick.

 

No.

 

The correct way of doing it is to write to them and say "I would be happy to attend subject to a consultancy fee of £500 being paid in advance." - They want to make money off your back, it is only right that they pay for your time now that you are no longer claiming.

[Mr.P]

For a benefit doubt (sanction) to be raised, a Mandatory Activity Notice has be issued first. A MAN must be in writing and handed or posted to the claimant in good time. A verbally issued instruction or a text/email is not sufficient.

 

I would suggest that your friend instructs Ingeus that all further communication is to be made in writing - Being unemployed, cutbacks are being made in expenditure and a telephone is one expense to be selected. If Ingeus require telephone contact during office hours, then they can provide (and fund) a mobile phone.

 

 

 

I used to get random calls from A4e despite informing them that contact was to be in writing only - The call usually entailed me asking "which part of in writing do you not understand, or are you incapable of writing ?"

[Mr.P]

Forced to, no.

Mandated under the threat of sanctions, yes.

[Mr.P]

got a text from ingeus from a mobile number saying "are you interested in attending and employment fair in glasgow next week? ingeus have organised an event with 50 employers and over 300 vacancies. if you would like more information reply to this message with your name and someone will call you.thanks"

 

do i have to go or is it fine to say no? as i prefer something closer to home not wanting to travel far everyday back and forward.

plus this wasnt a text from my adviser as shes off sick this was another adviser can they take numbers from other and advisers and text them even though my actual adviser is off?

 

hope to get answers soon thanks

 

Glasgow’s largest jobs fair takes place on Wednesday 26 March, from 10.30am to 4.00pm, at The Grand Central Hotel in Glasgow.

- Pulled from a simple web search.... Standard spherical objects that "Ingeus" organised the event....

As for the txt message, it is only an invite, not a Mandatory Activity Notice - You are under no obligation to attend.

[Mr.P]

If he has been given a written Mandatory Activity Notice, then yes, he would have to go in and do it in their office.

 

A MAN must be in writing and either posted in good time or handed to him. Telephone calls, text messages, or emails are not permissible methods of issuing a MAN. Chapter 3a Work Programme Provider Guidance.

[Mr.P]

The company rents a room out with around 8 advisors and seriously lacks privacy and confidentiality. I have noted this and been able to see other peoples NI numbers addresses is a recipe for fraud if your that way incline. No seperate rooms so even if you request one to one meeting it will be declined.

 

You should really be raising a complaint at a high level with the DWP - They claim to take client confidentiality seriously and would "have words" over any breaches... Make notes of confidential information and pass it on to the head of Work Programmes within the DWP and sit back to watch the $**! hit the fan.

 

I did the same with A4e when an "adviser" discussed someone's criminal record within earshot. Gave sufficient details to establish that the conversation did take place, added a few snippets of other discussions, and a few weeks later, it was obvious some backsides had been kicked.

[Mr.P]

If you've already had the letter to attend then you should attend - always cover yourself and don't give them an excuse to stop your benefits.

 

Keep all your bus tickets for every trip you make to this placement. Contact Ingeus in writing (either letter or email) and ask (demand ?) what steps they will take to reimburse your travel expenses - If they refuse to acknowledge your letter or reject any expenses claim, follow it up with a formal complaint (in writing) to the DWP/JCP.

 

Oh, and one final word of warning - Just because you are on a Mandatory Work Activity, you are not excused your regular job search. Check with the JCP to see what is expected of you and if you are required to sign on as per normal.

[Mr.P]

I've posted a link to the Work Provider Guidance, which you should also read up on. These are the DWP rules that Ingeus and all other WP's have to abide by so by knowing them you can hopefully keep one step ahead if they try and get you to do things that aren't allowed.

 

The link you posted is for the Work Programme. frozenelsa would appear to be conscripted on a Mandatory Work Activity via Ingeus. For MWA providers, there is another set of documents that they should be following: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mandatory-work-activity-dwp-provider-guidance

 

In addition, there is the generic guidance that covers all DWP programmes: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/framework-generic-guidance-provider-guidance

 

A fair bit of the documentation is repetitive, so it is worth sitting down with a notepad & pen and noting the pertinent sections so that you can quote them when needed.