mancetti vs Lloyds ***WON***

[mancetti]

I have been avidly reading all these stories and they all sound like the Loveable Lloyds I have come to know after the last 6 or 7 years.

 

I got to the end of my tether with them this year after paying back an overdraft without any other use of the account (I am now with NatWest), than to pay back the balance, complete with overdraft interest reducing my repayment by half every month. The letter below is one that I sent to them on , to which I received the standard "We've had your complaint" etc...

 

I have just received the standard "Sod Off" letter indicating that I can check my balance with a cash card (which they instructed me to cut up and return 3 years ago) and complete with the statement, "we do everything we can to help our customers avoid charges altogether" and "I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible - and why I cannot agree to cancel your charges".

 

I NEED HELP. WHAT DO I DO NOW? ANY ADVICE OR TEMPLATE LETTERS WOULD BE OF GREAT HELP!!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

LETTER SENT END OF AUGUST

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Account Number: ********** – Sort Code: *******

 

 

I would refer you to my letter dated the 27th of July 2005, which is enclosed. I would refer you again to the fact that I do not recognise you as providing me with a bank account, overdraft or indeed any other service. I would highlight again that your calculations are coupled with ridiculous charges.

 

Therefore, enough is enough.

 

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges, which you have levied from my account over the last four years. The date to which I will commence my claims is the 1st of June 2002, the date that I moved back to ******. You will also note from my attached schedule that I do not have my statements for the months September 2004 to May 2005, for which I omit from my claim; much to your benefit.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees, which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth, are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

 

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner, which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

 

 

For the account, number ******** to be cleared from any balance and closed.

 

I calculate that you have taken £2170.00 plus £631.35, which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum, which you have taken. Total £2801.35. I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

 

My targets to resolve this matter

 

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Princess Ivy]

That sounds like lloyds! i'm just starting off myself, you're further than i am. so good luck, i'm sure the others around will be able to help.

[vckyjam]

how many letters have you sent them? Your first one should be the prim letter, you wait 14 days then send the LBA (letter before action ) letter. You will most prob get a responce from them saying a big fat no. Afte you have waiting 14 days (from the day u sent the lba) you need to issue a claim against them. This is done on moneyclaim web site!

 

Also have you sent them a list of charges with the prim and the lba?

 

If you get stuck the read the questions and answers section.

 

Hope this helps....Its confusing the first time round

 

Vic

[vckyjam]

sorry spelling/grammer is shocking today

[GaryH]

Mancetti,

 

Welcome to the Lloyds forum!

 

Your next step is the LBA (letter before action), which can be found in the templates library. What you need to do though is have a really good read of the FAQ's and step by step instructions - all your questions will no doubt then be answered.

[mancetti]

Thanks Vckyjam and GaryH. No worries on the spelling etc, I'm writing this with abroken hand!!!

 

I've had a long think about this and I've decided to go for broke! I'm gonna send another letter detailing the errors in the letter I've received and asking for a full stateement of account to get a full list of charges...you'll note from my first post that I'm missing about 9 months and started from June 2002.

 

From reading other threads I note that you can get statements from Lloyds providing you request this in wiriting and quote The Data Protection thing.

 

A couple of queries you people out there may be able to help me with:

 

1. How far back can you request the statement of account. I'm thinking September 1997. Is this too far back?

 

2. Would I have to pay Lloyds for the priveledge?

 

3. What sort of letter should I write?

 

I'm not looking for someone to do this for me but any help would be appreciated.

[lucid]

Hi mancetti,

 

The Subject Access Request is the letter template you need to send them, and you need to include a cheque for £10. As far as I know they should send you statements covering your complete banking history with them (although I didn't do the SAR myself so this is only going on what I've read elswhere). If you want to be sure then I see no problem in you specifying the date you want the statements to start from.

 

Good luck, Lucid

[GaryH]

You will find the answers to all the questions you ask in the FAQ's; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/1-frequently-asked-questions.html and step by step instructions; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/243-step-step-instructions.html

 

The above is absolutely essential reading if you want to reclaim your charges. You need to understand the process and some of the legalities involved before you start - I know its tempting to get stuck straight in to it, but you'll save a hell of a lot of time and/or cock ups if you do your research first.

 

In answer to your questions though;

 

1) Yes, you can request the statements that far back. However, there is a statute of limitation that only allows claims to date back 6 years, so you could only claim the charges back to 2000.

 

2) Yes, there is a statutory £10 fee for a Data Protection Act subject access request.

 

3) No need to write it - there's a SAR template in the templates library, just edit it and print it off. Send it by recorded delivery to Penny Berryman at the address at the top of the Lloyds forum in the stickys.

 

As I said, the FAQ's and S-by-S instructions will answer 99% of your questions, so have a good read and if you still have any quesations after that, by all means ask away. Also, Reloads thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/6182-reload-lloyds-settlement-offered.html is an excellant read for all Lloyds claimants.

[mancetti]

Thank you so much for your advice and guidance guys. I'll keep you posted. I'm in for the long haul on this one...the cr@p I've had to deal with from this bank means I'm taking them all the way.

 

i WILL suceed on this!!!!!!!!!!!

[GaryH]

Go for it - it is YOUR money after all!!!

[mancetti]

Hello all. I'm really sorry for not posting any information about my ongoing Lloyds TSB saga but I've without the computer for a while. Now armed with a new PC, I'll give you the updates and again ask for some advice, from anyone who can offer it.

 

I sent my LBA to Lloyds and as expected was told where to go in no uncertain terms. This was actually the exact same letter they had sent to me before. They hadn't even bothered to change the date when referring to my previous letter, which was actually the one before if that makes sense?

 

Anyway, money claim was filed and fees of £120 paid.

 

I've now received the acknowledgement of service and their defence (if you can call it that....it's word for word the same as Reload's without the reference to the Supply of Goods Act bit at the end)

 

Reading the Andy Ross v Lloyds - ** WON UNCONDITIONALLY ** thread, I'm now confident with a little patience, I'll get there...and the money back!!

 

However, I've come to a stage I'm not sure about....

 

Firstly, I've been asked to submit my Allocation Questionaire to my local County Court but with the court fees of £100?? Do I have to pay this again even after my £120 payment to MCOL?

 

Secondly, can anyone point me in the right direction as to how to complete the AQ and what to submit with it? I've read some threads but still a little unsure.

 

Any help, again, greatly appreciated...

[GaryH]

Hi Mancetti, welcome back!

 

I'm afraid you do have to pay a £100 fee with your AQ if your claim is over £1500. You'll get it back upon settlement though.

 

Heres the new strategy for the AQ - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57707-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html#post441555

And heres the guide notes - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

[mancetti]

You truly are a star Gary...cheers!

 

Will keep you posted from now on

[mancetti]

Okay...I think I'm understanding all of this.

 

I take it that I need to complete the AQ and in the other information state that I state that I wish to add the standard disclosure order and mark this as see attached. Then copy the order to be attached to the AQ??

 

Do I have to submit all the documents I wish to rely on with the AQ i.e. statements, letters etc? Or is this something I would then send to all parties when the AQ has been submitted and the date set?

 

Lastly, what is the difference between the 'Service Charge' Statement and the 'Genuine Pre-Estimate' statement? I'm getting a little confused, particularly with all the legalise....I'm simply claiming back bank charges and interest, so do I go for the latter?

 

Getting confused by it all now but I want to submit the AQ on Friday with the fees, when I get paid.

 

Does the completed AQ get submitted first with the disclosure request and then take it from there?

 

HELP!

[GaryH]

I take it that I need to complete the AQ and in the other information state that I state that I wish to add the standard disclosure order and mark this as see attached. Then copy the order to be attached to the AQ??

Yes. complete the AQ as normal and attach the draft order.

 

Do I have to submit all the documents I wish to rely on with the AQ i.e. statements, letters etc? Or is this something I would then send to all parties when the AQ has been submitted and the date set?

No to the first part, yes to the second!

 

Lastly, what is the difference between the 'Service Charge' Statement and the 'Genuine Pre-Estimate' statement? I'm getting a little confused, particularly with all the legalise....I'm simply claiming back bank charges and interest, so do I go for the latter?

Which statement you use depends on the basis upoin which the bank are defending your claim. Lloyds say their charges are a service charge, so you use the service charge statement. Remember though that the statement of evidence is not to be submitted with the AQ, but when the judge directs you to submit your evidence.

 

Does the completed AQ get submitted first with the disclosure request and then take it from there?

Yes

[mancetti]

Thanks Gary. That's what I thought.

 

One last question:

 

Should I copy the order for directions into the Section G on the forms or write see attached, enclosing/attaching the request?

[GaryH]

Attach it on a seperate sheet.

[mancetti]

What's been happening to date...

 

Last Friday I went and handed in my AQ with the Draft Order for Directions. I also paid my £100 fee.

 

Then I posted Recorded Delivery a copy of the AQ to the Solicitors for Lloyds with a covering letter, asking for a copy of their AQ. I checked on Tuesday via the Royal Mail tracking and it's been received.

 

Just hold on now I suppose for the Court's or their response...I'm getting quite excited about this.

 

Keep ya's posted...

[mancetti]

Not heard anything yet...I may give the Solicitors a call today

[mancetti]

I was going through my paperwork last night and I've got the fear that I've messed up somehow.

 

I submitted my AQ with the Draft Order on the 25 January. I've heard nothing from the Court or SCM since then.

 

According to my own Draft Order, documents should have been submitted after 14 days to both parties....should I have done this already??!! Or am I worrying unnecessarily because these are submitted to both parties after direction from the Court????

 

Have I screwed this up???!!! I'm really worried now.....HELP!

[GaryH]

Don't panic!

 

You've only proposed the directions at this stage - you only have to submit the documents if/when the court actually orders them.

 

You'll receive directions and a court date within a few weeks and need do nothing else at this stage untill you do.

[mancetti]

Well, I got the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track through...the date to submit the documents to each party, that I intend to rely on need to be served by the 12 March 2007.

The court date set for the hearing is for the 8 May 2007.

Not heard anything from the Solicitors yet, defence-wise but hey, surprise, surprise...

I'm going to get my documents together this week/weekend to send off to the court and SCM (recorded delivery of course)...pretty confident I know everything I need to send to them though.

Thought I'd keep my thread updated.

As always, if anyone wants to make sure I've covered everything, remind me what not to forget.....better to be safe than sorry!

Updates will follow....

[GaryH]

Here you go, this should cover everything -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

[mancetti]

Yet again Gary, your response is immediate and extremely helpful...you're a diamond

 

The basic Court Bundle does seem quite lengthy...I understand that my own documents, statements, letters and schedules are necessary. Being a novice, the legalise seems extensive....should I still print it all out, the web pages from the links being separate?

 

I've read through it all and a lot of it is gibberish to me? Any comments?

[mancetti]

ps the link in the Basis Bundle to the OFT web site doesn't see to work. Is this the document I should be adding to my case documents?

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/financial_products/oft842.pdf

 

:confused: