Problem with NatWest Card Services

[Everthecool1]

Hi, I wondered if anyone could please advise me about a problem I am trying to sort out between my wife and

NatWest Card Services.

I have asked for a CCA which they didn’t supply they then referred the account to all the usual suspects,

Moorcroft, Triton Credit Services, Green&Co, ect’.

I’ve just received the letter below and wondered if anyone could please tell me what if anything I can do next

Cheers

 

Thank you for your letter dated ***January 2011.

Regarding your recent letter concerning the Banks alleged breach of the CCA, I would advise you of the following.

Any request for a copy of an executed agreement under s78(1), states that the company must meet it's statutory

requirements by providing a 'true copy' of the agreement relevant to the card product at the date the card agreement

was made, plus a copy of the terms of the card product. These copies should be accompanied by the statement of

financial information relating to the account.

When responding to requests under 578 we are compliant if we provide a true copy' o! To: agreement in accordance

with Regulations 342) and 7 (1) (b) of the Consumer Credlt ' (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

This means that there is no obligation for us to provide a copy of the original agreement bearing signatures.

Additionally, under Regulation 3 (2) a 'true copy' does not need to contain all personal information relating to the borrower, nor does

it need to include a signature box or dates of signatures. ' We have supplied a copy of the credit agreement that you agreed to after

which you then received your credit card. We have also supplied a copy of the original and current Terms and Conditions of that card

product with the prescribed terms and a statement showing the outstanding balance. We have advised you who you need to contact

to discuss amounts due and owing, and future payments that must be paid. We have therefore met our obligations under s78(1) to provide

a copy of that executed agreement and again we are satisfied that what was provided complied with the Regulations expressly made for

controlling what is a 'true doped.

l must therefore inform you that we see no reason to enter into further correspondence with you about alleged CCA breaches. If you are

not satisfied with this response, you may seek whatever legal redress you consider is open to you.

We do not consider this account to be in dispute and your indebtedness on this account remains due and payable and we will be pursuing

for the full repayment.

All non-payments have been recorded on your credit file is has the default due to non-payment.

I suggest that you take advice from your local Citizen's Advice Bureau or other similar organisation if you continue to doubt the veracity

of what we have told you about our having complied with our obligations under s78(1).

l trust this clarifies matters for you.

Yours sincerely,

Mr D. Cater

Correspondence Officer

[PGH7447]

fraid what they are saying is true, as long as they sent you something approaching an agreement then that is that, however if they go to court then they have to produce the original, how old is the debt, ie when did you take the card out

[Everthecool1]

Thanks For that, the debt is about 2 years old, but i've had the card since 2003

[harrassed senior]

OK, the CCA request should have contained within it the following sentence:

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

If this was not within your request, then this would be the reason that they have sent what is referred to as a reconstituted agreement and this will satisfy the CCA Request.

 

However, as already mentioned, the original must be available to put before a Court should they take that route, and you would then be able to request a copy when Court is threatened.

 

If the above sentence was contained in your original request, I would write and ask them to clarify that point.

[Everthecool1]

Many thanks for all the advice, its certainly food for thought

[PGH7447]

if it is only 2 years old was it done on Line?, if yes then it is different to a paper application

[victoria_siempre]

Hi PGH

 

OP says card is from 2003.

 

x

 

v

[Everthecool1]

Hi all, many thanks for your input.

App was made online in 2003, and I fell behind about 2 yrs ago. Also tried to reclaim charges abo same time but it was a no go after the banks got away with it. I have also applied to NatWest to be considered under their hardship scheme, but they just ignored my letter

[harrassed senior]

As the original agreement dates back to 2003 send a CCA request to whomever is chasing now and this will be the basis of a dispute and will put all action on hold until such time as reply is sent:

 

Send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12+2 days or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc

 

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

(Optional)

You should also note that I will only discuss this matter in writing and should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you or any of your associates.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance. (Optional)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

Print name do not sign

[Everthecool1]

Wow, that’s great, thanks so much,

the last letter I had was from NatWest (that’s the one I posted here)

Before that it was Moorcroft, and before that Green & Co all of which (after a bit of research on different forums ) I am led to believe are NatWest’s in house collectors so I guess it’s NatWest whose chasing now.

[Bazooka Boo]

I can confirm that you are correct, Green&co ARE NW's in house tame solicitors...

[Everthecool1]

Sorry to be a pain but can I ask, if recorded delivery is the best way to send the letter harrassed senior kindly drafted for me ?

I ask the question because the lady in my post office informed me that some of her customers have experienced difficulty when using recorded delivery to post to NatWest and other similar company’s.

She says the problem is people have been unable to get a copy of the signed for signature because NatWest’s mail is delivered in bulk into a mail room, and therefore gets one signature for sack loads of mail. And I just wondered what your thoughts where ?

Cheers

[victoria_siempre]

Hi

 

Recorded delivery.

 

x

 

v

[Everthecool1]

Many thanks victoria_siempre how do I get proof of receipt ? apparently post office online just reads as going through our network

[victoria_siempre]

Hi ever

 

It will usually show eventually as being delivered but with no named signature.

 

The only sure way is SD but this costs and we use it rarely.

 

This missive is not mission critical and it is sufficient to demonstrate that you sent it for your next action.

 

Proof of posting (free) is also fine for less significant stuff.

 

Normal second class is good for routine responses to clowns and bandits.

 

x

 

v

[Bazooka Boo]

Hand your letter into the Post Office counter and ask them for proof of posting, this is all that is legally required to prove delivery.

[PGH7447]

Hi PGH

 

OP says card is from 2003.

 

x

 

v

 

I had better go to specsavers - Doh

[Everthecool1]

thanks for everyone's help, I will let you know how I get on .. Cheers

[Everthecool1]

Hi all,

just to let you know that i sent harrassed senior's letter /CCA request to NatWest card services as they were the last company to contact me, however i have not received anything back from them so far but I did receive the following from Moorcroft,

 

 

Moorcroft Debt recovery limited

~Pre-Court division

 

We acknowledge receipt of recent correspondence with regards to the above account.

Please be assured that your account is now on hold whilst we investigate this matter further with our client and that we will communicate their response upon receipt.

In the meantime if you require any further information or assistance please do not hesitate to contact us on the above telephone number.

Yours sincerely,

A.J Martin

Debt Recovery Manager

 

so i don’t know if it’s the CCA request or the letter I sent before that to Moorcroft that they are referring to, guess I’ll just have to sit tight and see what happens next

[Bazooka Boo]

Pre court division!!!!!! I'm sure they mean Pre-clueless division but don't know how to spell it.

 

Anything these guys do is hilarious, they should be in a circus, I can never take them seriously...bless em..

[curly bob]

Its a typo pre court it should read pre School !!!!!!!!

[Everthecool1]

oops

Edited February 24, 2011 by Everthecool1

[Everthecool1]

Had half a rain forest through letterbox this morning, 14 pages in all,.

8 pages of which me thinks, they think, are terms and conditions (it would have been a waste of time to have scanned them because it’s all virtually unreadable see pic 7)

Oh, and the letter is a reply from a few months back where they tried to say I hadn’t sent them a £1

I notice there is nothing with any signatures on anything,, could this be significant .

 

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/63.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/64.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/65.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/66.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/70.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/doc069.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/state1.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/state2.jpg

Edited February 24, 2011 by Everthecool1

[Everthecool1]

it looks like Moorcroft are under the impression that the cost of asking for a credit agreement has gone up, LOL.

Mind you they did get the date wrong on the letter also; perhaps the brain cell was out of the office that day

 

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/everthecool1/doc082.jpg

Edited February 26, 2011 by Everthecool1

[Everthecool1]

Hi, I just wondered if anyone could advise me what to do next please.

Cheers