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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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zander in Scotland v A&L *WON* they want to close account?


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I'm ready to serve papers against A & L. However,in Scotland, since my petition is for £2,750, this is civil law (ordinary cause) and would not be a small claim. I've called my local court for advice and apart from suggesting I should use a solicitor, they also stated that I should claim against the local branch as this is in Scotland and not Head Office in England. Can anyone advise upon what the best course of action is? particularly regarding Scottish law? I really want to serve papers now and court clerk advised to read up on ordinary cause which would take about two days!!

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hi,

I do know how scottish law is slightly different to english law as i lived there for 3 yrs i would advice you to look on the govern law centre website it has a section dedicated to this issue and i am sure they will point you in the right direction

 

 

 

good luck

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I've just gone through this - The Scottish Court does not know procedure very well. Simply post your claim at Leicester County Court, citing A&L's registered office as the address. You don't have to do anything in Scotland.

 

Wish you well. If you look at other posts you will see their usual pattern is to acknowledge service and then pay up!!

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A lot of people have been asking about this and we haven't been able to give any definitive answers.

I would appreciate being kept informed as to the progress of this so that I can wirite into a FAQ when we become certain of the position.

Thanks

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Just to add a point. I fell certain that you will need to give an English address for service of documents on you.

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I've reluctantly delayed my action until I know for sure what's required with Scottish cases/Law. There must be many other Scots who are finding similar problems unless they are with Royal Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale & Bank of Scotland? I could give an address in England (friends) but not so sure of legalities with that situation. Appreciate some input from others in my position? Thanks.

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well, i dunno if this correct, but my claim is for approx 2400 quid, and i am splitting it into smaller chunks...ie March 2000 to Jun 2001 - £721 plus 8% plus fees

 

and i am intending to put down my local manager as the person who i am claiming from

 

dunno if this helps, but my court papers are due to be submitted on Thursday if i haven't had a reply by Wednesday to my LBA...so if i am wrong then ....HELP !!!!!!

IF YOU FEEL I HAVE HELPED YOU IN REPLYING TO YOUR POST, CAN YOU CLICK ON THE SCALES AND LET ME KNOW

 

Halifax - Total £2116 - Plus approx £300 in interest plus fees for 3 small claims...settled all within 3 weeks of claim.....Now for the mortgage.....

Clydesdale Bank - Credit Card - Sent Data Protection Act - Awaiting statements

Clydesdale Bank - Current Account - Awaiting statements

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  • 2 months later...

Have everything in place pertaining to my claim yet getting no further forward due to being in Scotland and suing an address in England. How can this be done? No one seems to have a definitive answer to this problem. Any suggestions? My claim is for £2,700.

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I reside on a SCOTTISH ISLAND!!!! A & L in England, but I which route I take depends on the amount I am reclaiming. If it is within the limits I shall lodge with my local Sheriff Court.

I very much doubt that it will be, and there are two ways to go about this - split the claim, making two (or more) smaller claims, or alternatively lodge through a County Court in England - near to the banks HQ.

I prefer the latter - I want all of my money back and all in one go! The general feel is that the bank rarely goes as far as heading to court (if ever)? and that they will settle in advance of that (fingers crossed).

However, if they do intend to defend then I shall be happy to appear in a court in a England, have the nice Judge make them give me my money (plus interest) back along with expenses (travel, accomodation - three day round trip from here at least, loss of salary etc etc) - If they choose for me to be the first one they want to make an example of then I will go to England - proabably very nervously - but I am not committing an illegal offence here. Justice due wherever!!!

These options are purely what I have a feel for from reading through the forum - if incorrect I am sure someone will advise.

Regards

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Thanks for your reply. I've not got a problem in attending court, if I have to, in England. I'll be claiming the lot in one go, however money claim states that your address has to be in England? This is where my efforts breakdown. How did you get around this? Ta.

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Have you had a look in the Scotland forum? You might find further information there.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Have just found this on my return from holiday. You claim at Leicester County Court using the Registered Office address on your cheque book. You can't do it via Moneyline but just print off an N1 form and send with cheque for relevant amount. A&L will lodge a Notice of Intention to Defend and then send you a cheque. A month after that they will notify you that they are closing your account. It took me from October 2005 until April 2006 to find all this out so hope it saves you time. Got all my money back (I live in Glasgow)

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Usefull Information at Govan Law centre on juristdiction

 

It is understood that the England & Wales Money Claim Online service requires a claimant to have an address in England or Wales, and therefore, if you are raising proceedings in England you would have to forward your claim to a particular County Court by post. While raising proceedings in England will entitle you to sue for a maximum of £5,000 under English small claims procedure, if the claim is defended you must be prepared to travel to England to present your defence. Accordingly, you should think very carefully about this issue, weighing up all of the pros and cons

 

Have a look at the Scotland forum

 

Best of Luck with your claim,

 

Charlie

Nationwide Total settlement for first claim £810.92 (Charges £570.00) total charges £2579.00 (Another 4 claims to make)

 

Tesco personal Finance -NO penalty charges see post end thread

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MORE TO FOLLOW

 

Advice & opinions of CharlieHo are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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Indeed, I live north of the border and used Leicester county court for my claim. As far as i am aware it depends on your accounts terms and conditions, In Anl current account T&C it states that English law applies. Although, some other banks state that english law applies unless you live in scotland. worth checking before filling any action.

 

Also, If sueing in england, be sure to use the N1 form and "particulars of claim" Its different templates for scottish courts.

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  • 1 month later...

I've been exceptionally busy making a living and have not yet followed up my last attempt to make sense of recovering the charges from our friends at A & L. Went to my local court where I requested a small claim form and told them I was to be making 4 small claims. I was then informed that I could only claim once against a Company. However, she reliably informed me that I COULD claim on the Moneyclaim site. This info tends to contradict what has been said in the forum pertaining to Scottish cases. Does any one have a definitive answer so as I can go get em??

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Zander

I cannot believe that you can claim only once against any one person or company. If that were to be true once a first small claim had been settled the bank (in this case) could do what they liked secure in the knowledge that they could not be sued again by you. Not realistic.

 

Clearly you can claim only once to recover any given individual charge, to claim a second time for the same charge would be fraud.

 

Suggest you ask MCOL if you can use them to claim, they are very helpful and certainly should provide the difinitive answer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Slowly getting there regarding Scotland v England (the auld enemy.... A & L!!)

Can anyone advise upon raising proceedings in England from a Scottish address? It would appear that my claim will have to be forwarded to Leicester County Court by post and not completed online. What about the court costs etc, how does this get paid? I'm hoping to get all this done & dusted asap.

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  • 2 months later...

My claim is in via MCOL, 1/11/06, and they sent me A & L's Acknowledgement of Service. Is it normal proceedure for Ms McGuirk to respond directly as well?

Incidentally, I'm claiming from Scotland but using an address in England for correspondence which was the easiest way forward for my claim. One closed account and one (at the moment) still running; total claim £4,341.01 plus costs. Thanks for the exceptionally good advice.

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Yup she did'nt get involved in my case until the end game.

We haven't got the money, so we've got to think!

Ernest Rutherford

 

A & L

Data Protection Act Letter sent 11/08/06

Data rec'd 14/09/06, Prelim letter sent 16/09/06

LBA sent 22/09/06, MCOL 6QZ68670 issued 2/10/06 - chq for £6,375.34 rec'd 04/11/06.

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I have merged your 5 threads together to keep your progress together, and also changed the title as I know other Scottish claimants would benefit from this thread.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Victory! A&L settled in full. Cheques for £945.43 & £3,602.34 received Saturday morning. They are of course going to have a look at the future operation of my closed account!?. Unfortunately had to pay the larger cheque into A&L as they made the cheque payable to the joint account but will remove to new account when cleared, moreover, donation to the group to follow. How can this be arranged?. As this claim was made in Scotland through MCOL, if I can be of assistance to others in a similar position, please let me know.Many thanks to all concerned & apologies if I've stuck this in the wrong place!!

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