do i have a chance to claim back costs incurred from job offer?

[ady347]

Hi,

wonder if anyone can help. Applied for a job 200 miles from where i live in early oct. Attended interview, was made a conditional offer of employment on the 30th Nov. The conditions were i successfully passed a medical, police checks, references.. Attended medical on the 7th December which was a 100 mile round trip. On the 15th of December i was told i was successful in all aspects and would recieve my start date before xmas with a copy of my employment contract. I handed in the notice on my house (2 months required) notice on my current job (6 weeks required) arranged new schooling and everything else when i got this email ready to move in jan to a new town 200 miles away.

 

On the 29th December i recieved a "out of the blue" email from the new employer stating they were withdrawing their job offer due to operational reasons. I phoned them and they said that after a head count management decided they had enough staff. I was told to put my complaint in writing and they would be in touch. I told them that basically i believed they were in breach of contract and i would be looking to recoop my expenses etc..... I have attached below their response, I wont find out till next monday if i can withdraw my resignation from my current job as my boss is on holiday till then. I am trying to find out if I have any legal right? or can they just do this? this is a large plc company so i presume they know what their talking about?

 

Sorry it has taken a few days longer to get back to you after the Christmas Break.

We very much regret the particular unavoidable circumstances that required First Great Western to withdraw your conditional offer of employment.

 

However, we have looked into your situation and it is clear that First Great Western have not acted in breach of contract as you allege.

 

Even if a binding contract had been entered into (which we dispute) First Great Western has the right to terminate your contract at any time either before or during your employment. First Great Western will only be found to have acted in breach of contract in such circumstances in the event that the company does not comply with the applicable notice provisions under the contract.

 

The applicable contract of employment for the role of Carriage Cleaner, which you would have been required to sign prior to commencing employment and which is standard for all Carriage Cleaners in the company, states that employees with less than 1 month's service are not entitled to receive any notice of termination of employment. This reflects the provisions in section 86 of the Employment Rights Act, which set out the statutory minimum notice that employers are required to give when terminating a contract of employment - namely that no notice is required to be given until an employee has completed 1 month's service.

 

Therefore, as you had not completed 1 month's service, First Great Western had the right to terminate your conditional offer of employment without notice, and the company has not acted in breach of contract in so doing. First Great Western is therefore not liable to you for any compensation.

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2011 by ady347

[rebel11]

Hi ady

 

According to CAB's website, it's very brief but it implies you should be able to claim compensation,

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/your_money/employment_index_scotland/dismissal.htm#Steps_to_work_through_to_identify_an_unf

 

It might be an idea to contact them, take all the documents including e-mails they have sent you.

[SarEl]

Ermm - CAB said "may" - and in this case the answer would be "may not".

 

I am afraid that in law the employer here is correct. They are able, even if an unconditional offer has been made, to withdraw that offer by serving the appropriate amount of notice, which they did. The notice only has to be paid if the agreed start date falls within the notice period - it doesn't so they do not have to pay the notice - and in any case, they are correct that they can dismiss in law without notice at this point in time. Whilst there is a moral argument that they ought to compensate for expenses occurred as a result of their actions, there is no legal way of enforcing this. Sorry

[andydd]

Why so many checks for a carriage cleaning job ?

 

It is aways sad to see this sitaution where someone hands in notice at their old job only for the new one to fall through, I have had it happen to two close friends and the situation is very worrying, perhaps a new employee should always ask what will happen if the job falls through ?

 

Andy

[ady347]

Ermm - CAB said "may" - and in this case the answer would be "may not".

 

I am afraid that in law the employer here is correct. They are able, even if an unconditional offer has been made, to withdraw that offer by serving the appropriate amount of notice, which they did. The notice only has to be paid if the agreed start date falls within the notice period - it doesn't so they do not have to pay the notice - and in any case, they are correct that they can dismiss in law without notice at this point in time. Whilst there is a moral argument that they ought to compensate for expenses occurred as a result of their actions, there is no legal way of enforcing this. Sorry

 

 

no offense intended!!!

are you 100% accurate on this, i wasnt sure if this is something you do for a living or have extreme knowledge in this area, so just asking?

 

im more annoyed about how much i am out of pocket for a job that tbh never existed, 400 mile round trip, 100 round trip for medical, loss of earnings attending medicals etc.... was just a complete waste of time, had they done things correctly they would of realised they had enough staff before advertising the vacancy.

[andydd]

I would of thought that you may be succesful if you could genuinely prove that the job didnt exist and there never was any intention to emply you.

 

Personally I think FGW attitude is disgusting, they seem to think they can just mess people about without any recourse, it is pretty dispicable, clearly if you started the job and you were totally useless it would be (slightly) fairer to dismiss you without notice, although most emplyers would still give you some notice, (with the exception of gross misconduct).

 

Unfortunatley to get anywhere with this may involve lots of investigating and may end up costing a fair amount.

 

I note from the above though that FGW dont actually use the above arguement as they firstly dispute that any contract was entered into, so it may be worth following this up. Did you actually get and sign a contract of employment ?.

 

Andy

[Mash It Up Harry]

I would of thought that you may be succesful if you could genuinely prove that the job didnt exist and there never was any intention to emply you.

 

Personally I think FGW attitude is disgusting, they seem to think they can just mess people about without any recourse, it is pretty dispicable, clearly if you started the job and you were totally useless it would be (slightly) fairer to dismiss you without notice, although most emplyers would still give you some notice, (with the exception of gross misconduct).

 

Unfortunatley to get anywhere with this may involve lots of investigating and may end up costing a fair amount.

 

I note from the above though that FGW dont actually use the above arguement as they firstly dispute that any contract was entered into, so it may be worth following this up. Did you actually get and sign a contract of employment ?.

 

Andy

 

I'm not defending FGW but I know the pressure large employers are under. Where I work we frequently have changes to recruitment policy where they constantly change the rules about filling vacancies with external applicants.

 

I think it's pretty outrageous that FGW are not at least offering some contribution to his costs. The only thing that is surprising, is why did they drag him 200 miles for an entry level job? Are there no suitable applicants locally?

 

For what it's worth, SarEl is 100% correct. By all means rattle their cage a bit and they may make some kind of ex-gratia payment, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Mash It Up Harry

[honeybee13]

no offense intended!!!

are you 100% accurate on this, i wasnt sure if this is something you do for a living or have extreme knowledge in this area, so just asking?

 

im more annoyed about how much i am out of pocket for a job that tbh never existed, 400 mile round trip, 100 round trip for medical, loss of earnings attending medicals etc.... was just a complete waste of time, had they done things correctly they would of realised they had enough staff before advertising the vacancy.

 

Hello there, sorry to hear about your problem. I would find what you're going through very tough. I don't know about the legal side of it, but SarEl does. To answer your question, she's an employment barrister who has been representing employees for the last 30 years.

 

My best, HB

[SarEl]

no offense intended!!!

are you 100% accurate on this, i wasnt sure if this is something you do for a living or have extreme knowledge in this area, so just asking?

 

im more annoyed about how much i am out of pocket for a job that tbh never existed, 400 mile round trip, 100 round trip for medical, loss of earnings attending medicals etc.... was just a complete waste of time, had they done things correctly they would of realised they had enough staff before advertising the vacancy.

 

No offence taken but since I am getting fed up of answering the question I have worked out how to put a signature on these posts to stop people asking! Hopefully, the answer is - see below!

 

I realsie that it is very unfair (in world terms) to be in this situation and I agree that morally the employer is in the wrong. But legally they are not. The law is that providing an confirmed offer has been made and a start date agreed, then the contract applies. But it is only the contractual terms that apply - so if the confirmed offer is withdrawn for any reason other than misconduct (eg you got caught lying on the application form) then the employer must serve notice. Now lets say, in a hypothetical situation, the notice period is one month and you are due to start work in one week. The employer, abiding by the terms of teh contract, owes you one months pay on the contractual terms. But the next week is not paid because you were not due to be paid - you weren't working for them yet - so your one months notice would be one week not paid and 3 weeks paid (the time you would have worked for them). That is why the link to CAB said "may".

[ady347]

i had a email which i had to reply to saying "do you accept the job offer". apparantly this counts as a contract but i didnt sign anything in writing except to say i agree to them carrying out checks, references etc..... some people might say i shouldnt of gave notice, but when i was told on the 17th december my start date should follow next week I took it for their word. Due to all the things i needed to do to move 200 miles I needed to get things started.

 

thanks for everyones advice, its been really appreciated.

[rebel11]

Hi ady347

 

Unless you want to take a hit in your expenditure, work out how much it has cost you, send them a breakdown, send a Formal Letter of Complaint to the CEO of the company. Don't sound aggressive, but tell them you want compensation for the travel, loss of earnings etc. Don't e-mail it, send a letter, make sure you mark it 'Formal Letter of Complaint.

 

i had a email which i had to reply to saying "do you accept the job offer". apparantly this counts as a contract but i didnt sign anything in wiriting except to say i agree to them carrying out checks, references etc.....

 

thanks for everyones advice, its been really appreciated.

[andydd]

i had a email which i had to reply to saying "do you accept the job offer". apparantly this counts as a contract but i didnt sign anything in writing except to say i agree to them carrying out checks, references etc..... some people might say i shouldnt of gave notice, but when i was told on the 17th december my start date should follow next week I took it for their word. Due to all the things i needed to do to move 200 miles I needed to get things started.

 

thanks for everyones advice, its been really appreciated.

 

A contract doesnt have to be in writing or signed, (I recently started a temp IT contract job starting the next day, I didnt sign anything, so I assume my contract was when I said 'yes' over the phone, a rate was agreed, but nothing else so It's unclear whether the T & C's of the agency would of applied as I never saw them).

 

There are prob 3 ways of fighting this:

 

1. Could you get any compensation pre-contract, FGW claim there was no contract.

 

2. Could you get some compensation after contract ?, FGW claim 'no' due to there no notice under 1 month rule, but did you see (and agree) an contract that had that term, or did you reply to the original 'job offer' email that had no T & C's (similar to my scenario above), if so would the T & C's be valid if you hadn't seen them ?

 

3. As suggested perhaps a letter to the CEO or perhaps some local press may be interested, it may put pressure on them.

 

4. You could of course take a gamble and start a small claim in the county court, even if you lost you would only be liable for some limited costs and you would of course lose any applications fees, it depends how much you think you are 'out of pocket', of course FGW may well settle as its not worth the hassle or possible publicity of defending.

 

As mentioned by othres there doesnt apear to be a clear cut easy route to get any compensation but it may be worth investigating.

 

Andy