Is it an offence to remove the PCN from the window

[sailor sam]

I would really like to see a case where a sucessfull prosecution has resulted by someone 'un-authorised' removing one of these!

 

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[Al27]

Means diddly squat.

 

BPA 'code of practice' just shows that they are in on the whole shebang, as we all well know.

[mightymouse_69]

So if the ownership of the ticket still rests with the PPC and the definition of theft is " A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". Then all that has to be done is to post the ticket back to the PPC with a little note saying "yours I believe".

 

With regard to theft:

 

The act says "belonging to another". This is can mean 'owning' it or being in control of it. For this reason, one could be the victim of a theft if something they do not own (but were in control of) was stolen.

 

An example would be where I borrow a book from a friend and another person then comes along and takes it. I do not own a book but I am a victim of it's theft. An interesting point is that in theory, one can also steal one's own property.

[Forcemaster]

 

The signs clearly state this is a private carpark and as the fines are issued by the security it is a PPC invoice not a PCN. I have now managed to obtain several of these PPCs as an employee of said workplace. I mostly park on the road outside, but if there is no space (and if i start work later in the day there is often not) then parking in the car-park is my only recourse... The manaement of the car parks was given to the Car Parking Partnership, who have subsequently started applying punative damages (sorry I mean parking fines) to cars that do not pay. As my initial terms of employment stated there was free parking for staff and that contract has NOT be re-negotioated, i refuse to pay to park if i need to.

[DBC]

Can I mak a slight correction? They are not FINES, they are invoices. A private parking company cannot "fine" anyone.

[Old Snowy]

With regard to theft:

An interesting point is that in theory, one can also steal one's own property.

Oh, this is not just theoretical. It is entirely possible to steal one's own property and the case of R v Turner (No. 2) [1971] 1 WLR 901 bears this out. Mr Turner had placed his car at a garage for repairs but removed it in order to avoid paying the bill. It was held that the garage had a proprietary right or interest in the car at the time it was taken by Turner and that as a result he was guilty of its theft.

[lamma]

was that a mechanics lien (of because of the possibility of one)

if so surely it is distinguished

[Old Snowy]

In the terms expressed a mechanics lien (a term more generally used in the US and some other Common Law jurisdictions) is a form of possessory lien which, in the case of circumstances such as those that obtained in the case of R v Turner, allows a creditor to retain possession of the debtor's property until the debt is paid. In civil law, the garage proprietor could have pursued Turner for the tortious conversion of/interference with the car based on the lien described but the criminal law supervened as the circumstances of the particular case disclosed sufficient evidence of dishonesty (which is not necessary from a civil law perspective) for proceedings for theft to be instituted. The Theft Act recognises liens as a proprietary right or interest and from that point of view a mechanic's/possessory lien is not distinguished.

[lamma]

Thanks for that.