Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc

[GuidoT]

Case summary from Eversheds.

 

https://www.eversheds.com/uk/home/articles/index1.page?ArticleID=templatedataEvershedsarticlesdataenFinancial_institutionsAnother_sensible_decision_on_another_credit_card_challenge

[Mistermind]

Several particular rulings here illustrate a general point.

 

Many DIY law book readers believed the "prescribed terms" needed to be present as the letter of the law, the phrase of the law. I.E. if you made a WORD search but did not find "credit limit" then the agreement was invalidated, that parliament the legislative branch permitted interpretation neither by the executive branch nor the judiciary branch.

 

Judge Chambers made clear this was not so, the law is what judges say it is. You could of course try appealing to a higher court and ultimately to the Supreme Court, but there it ends. Those who trust law book DIY readers and posters beware. It is not what they think, it is what the judge thinks.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Mistermind

[tortilla]

Hi all

 

Does this judgement mean that all of us who are challenging our agreements on the "approved limit" now have to smile and pay up?

 

Has anyone got any ideas for making the humble pie any easier, and how to get the best deal we can in these circumstances?

 

Regards

[FightToTheEnd]

between my wife and I we have 2 accounts with egg both disputed under the approved limit argument. We haven't heard anything for months from Egg despite not making payments for 12 months..... thought they would be all over us the day after the Slater judgement was decided?!

[freethemice]

If they haven't notified you of anything in 12 month that is another challenge as they have to supply details of the debt at least every 12 month.

Sure someone will elaborate on the legislation but yes this does look like bad news for those of us who hoped to escape the chains of debt on non compliance.

[craigers]

i'd love to see what the judge would make of my egg account. my signed credit agreement says approved and individual limit, but a covering letter says my credit limit! how can they possibly argue against that?

[wazir]

Well, I've asked for the agreement, got sent a letter with 'two documents - A and B, A being your original CCA and B being the current Terms and Conditions'. But there were three - an Egg card Agreement (signed and dated), and two CCAs, one with my name and address, both undated and unsigned by myself and anyone from Egg. None were labelled 'A' or 'B'. So I challenged them on receiving this letter in May. Heard nothing except we'll get back to you regarding your complaint within 8 weeks - which meant before August. I heard nothing more, so I cancelled my direct debit and started receiveing demands for payment. In August Capital Credit Agencies started calling me. I wrote to both Egg and CC Agencies (recorded delivery), demanding a reply from Egg within three (calender weeks) weeks, stating failure to reply (as they had to letters sent by me in June and July) would be taken by myself as agreement that they had no enforcable CCA, and should reduce the balance on the dispute to 0 and remove any reference they had made to any credit reference agencies. Also complained that CC Agencies had got involved with no notice of default, and that daily phone calls when they would not respond to my letters is harassment.

 

Heard nothing except more demands for payment, so I have complained to the financial services ombudsman and the phone calls have stopped. Will be interested to see where Egg go from here - by not replying in writing repeatedly, they have left themselves in a tricky position. Also not serving a default notice before referring my account to CC Agencies (which appears to be a separate company owned by Egg). Also lying - saying I've not been in touch (both to me in writing and to CC Agencies) when they have received letters from me, and I can prove it....

[craigers]

wazir, the account will just have been passed to this CC lot for them to do the chasing. it hasn't necessarily been defaulted or sold on.

[wazir]

If it's not defaulted, then how can they have the right to pass details on?

I've found in the past it is necessary to say this is what is acceptable, if you don't agree then I will take the matter further. Useful when banks fob you off, or in this case Egg fails to reply to my letters at all. In this case I've also said failure to reply will be taken as agreement (on the part of Egg) to my assessment of the situation. Then made a further demand, and complained about Eggs failure to act on it to the FSO.

[craigers]

CC Agencies are a part of Egg/Citi. Its an internal collection department so they aren't passing details on. Probably just a different desk in the same office.

[wazir]

They claim in their letters they are acting 'on behalf of a client'. Therefore legally they are claiming to be under contract to the branch of the Egg companies with which the disputed account rests, even if both are part of the same group. Therefore Egg has passed on my details. They can't claim it's part of the same company with letters like that - it's how companies get around tax and planning laws, different companies in the same group with the same owner.

[wazir]

Egg (or CCAgencies) passed the account to to 'Resolvecall'. One email to them after they came around and left a card and they've handed the case back. My email mentioned no default notice, Eggs failure to reply to my letters meant dispute was terminated, and Egg having been informed several times (and I have proof of delivery) that any communication other than in writing would be deemed harassment. As they had contracted the case to Resolvecall and apparently not informed them of this, I am adding harassment to my FOS complaint against Egg. I said the only communication I expected from Resolvecall was to say they were handing the case back - and one day later, that is what I received. I did also say if they called around again, I would be complaining about Resolvecall to the Financial Ombudsman.

[victoria_siempre]

Good on you wazir

 

I had some goon knock on the door from Resolvecall and told him to Foxtrot Oscar or I would call the police.

 

CCAgencies are in-house agents of Egg. CCAgencies use Resolvecall as agents. It's in breach of OFT gudelines to use more than one DCA at a time so you should complain and hold Egg accountable for this.

 

Phone Consumer Direct, make it clear that you are complaining about Egg and they will give you a reference number.

 

Complain formally to Egg, referencing the Consumer Direct case number and ask for a copy of their complaints procedure.

 

It worked (for now) for me.

 

Best wishes

 

vic

[wazir]

Got a call from Capital Credit Agemcies yesterday. I told them they'd been informed in writing that this would be regarded as harassment several times, and I had pointed out in my correspondence that Egg seemed to have no central record of my letters to them. Also said I had demanded all comms in writing and that the complaint was now being looked at by the Financial Services Ombudsman. He said 'which correspondance are you referring to', but I was too annoyed to carry on and put the phone down.