Tripped and fell at work....

[PriorityOne]

Hi everyone,

 

This is really not my area, so would appreciate some help.

 

Last week, I was walking into work and I tripped over some metal things that were sticking out of the ground. I don't know what they're called, but they're at the bottom of bollard type posts that can be lowered to the ground to let traffic over the top of them, when needed. When they're up, they keep traffic out... hope you can understand that. There were no signs warning of these metal things but if I was looking where I was going, I would have seen them, I s'pose.

 

It was a nasty fall and I crashed onto the concrete on both knees. One of my colleagues saw this and ran to help... we gathered up my things and I got up and walked into work. It was very painful, both knees were bruised and skin was off; despite having trousers on. I had no holes in my trousers though (strange?!)

 

I contacted HR and was told that I'd need to fill in accident report form, which I'll be doing over the weekend.

 

My knees are ok but I have joint problems. I have had these for a while but have never seen a GP about them because I'm aware that not much could be done anyway. I've had back problems for years but nothing really helps, so just haven't bothered going back. What I need to know though is..... where do I stand if problems develop with my knees or, if my existing ones get worse? I've not been to the GP with existing problems to do with my knees, as said.

 

This is the 2nd accident I've had. The first one was whan I fell in the heavy snow after my employer had failed to clear a pathway for us to get into the building. An accident report was filled in for this and filed but I did nothing about it.... because the path was cleared the same day. This last accident however was a very heavy fall and if I'm honest, I feel quite cross about it.

 

All advice welcome...

 

[PriorityOne]

I'm trying to cover myself, to be honest. I've been intending to go to the GP for weeks about ongoing pains in my lower back and hips but haven't as yet... I just got on with life. A fall on my hip (1st time) and this fall on my knees (last week) isn't going to help me in the long term. That's what I feel anyway.

 

I don't want to annoy my employer with this by going to a solicitor and this was never my intention anyway but.... I don't want to just leave it and then find some months later that I've got bigger problems in my joints because of the fall. I'm able to do my job (teaching), so it's not effecting that but I was in a lot of pain last week after the fall and that isn't right.

 

I'm also not able to lift stuff.... and as an aside to this, I spent the last day of the Summer holidays moving furniture around at work (we had room changes) because there was no-one else to do it.... and it needed to be done. I even had a text message to come in and please sort my room out! The furniture was moved by the caretakers, but dumped any old how in the new rooms. The whole place is making me cross at the moment because of the way people are being treated.... which is why I'm posting this, I think. If I'd refused to go in and sort my room out, it would have made my life much more stressful because I would have had to go in and try to do my job in complete chaos!

 

I'm very aware that it's an employers' market out there and don't want to rock the boat for myself.... but don't know what else to do to cover myself re. these accidents (if anything) just in case I get problems later on down the line because of them.

 

Does that make sense?

 

[PriorityOne]

Thanks for all your input.... it's really appreciated

 

I'll make an appt. to see the GP on Monday and report back. I haven't taken any time off because of the fall (or the last one)... but could easily have stayed off on Friday, to be honest. Working with kids makes it difficult to take time off because I feel so guilty.... so I went in and got through the day. I'm not in any pain now because of the fall but my lower back and hips have been very painful for ages, so this is a good excuse for me to go and see my GP anyway, document the fall and tell him about everything else. I've thought for a while that I may have osteo-arthritis... it runs in the family and my mum had it in her back.

 

Do you still advise me informing DWP about this even though I've had no time off from work?

 

Thanks again...

[PriorityOne]

Do you know how I inform DWP.... and which dept. I need to speak to?

[PriorityOne]

Thanks everyone...

 

Just had a thought... I assume that I don't have to do the RIDDOR report at the moment as I haven't been off work with this. What happens if I get problems later on and do need to take time off though? Would it be too late to do a RIDDOR report?

 

Also... is it too late to inform my GP of the first fall (in the snow) and get that one on record as well... as this happened in January?

Edited September 12, 2010 by PriorityOne
Thought...

[PriorityOne]

The accident record would suffice for the time being. It is the employer's responsibility to comply with the regs - if necessary they have to report it, not you. It has little bearing on what happens in the case, but they would be in trouble later if they had failed to act in accordance with HSE regs, so you don't need to concern yourself with RIDDOR.

 

The fact that you fell earlier will be relevant to your doctor, and his assessment of your condition, but would be outside the scope of workplace records, although may be worth mentioning in order to address any concerns ahead of another cold snap.

 

Ok.... thanks for that....

 

I did complete an accident report at the time of the fall in January and was seen by one of the first aiders as well... the only thing I didn't do at that time was see my GP to log it with him.... so it is recorded at work. Does this mean that it's too late for me to log it now with my GP and with DWP and if it is, have I failed to cover myself in case of future medical problems to do with my hip (which I fell on)?

[PriorityOne]

Hi P1 ........ what happens is that you fill in the form and send it off to the DWP. They then merely log it until you decide that your injury should be assessed. They then send you to a DWP doctor and (usually harshly) they assess what degree of disability you have and whether the industrial injury is responsible. If they accept it is an II then they assess it at a particular percentage. have a look at this http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Industrial-Injuries-Disablement-Benefit.htm You can see that it is quite high degree of disability for you to be allocated the benefit. However that is not to say that your condition may not develop to that degree.... so that is why you need to note it. I see.... thank you

 

I would say to tell your GP of both incidents and explain if it has got worse so you are concerned. I would submit two forms, one for each incident. If you feel you need to claim the money you need to submit an additional form. (You may wish to delay this until you are sure your disability is really bad to the degree it affects you incessantly and you may be also be considering ill health retirement from your work. Do you think this a possibility in the future? If so you need to know what the criteria for this is. I would have thought there are enhanced benefits if the retirement is due to an injury at work. Are there?

 

I don't want to claim any Benefit for this... I just want to cover myself in case I need to at some point in the future, that's all. I'm way off retirement age but am aware that I have joint problems and both of these falls won't have helped this situation. The lower back pains that I have now are quite severe and I didn't have these last year; not as bad as they are now. I don't think it's been caused by the first fall but I landed on one side (hip) and jolted my lower back during that incident (in the snow).... which is why I've been quietly kicking myself that I didn't log it with the GP when it happened. I don't want to risk doing that with this last fall (knees), which is why I'm trying to cover all angles.

 

No. The crucial thing in that case is that the fall was recorded in the workplace. Yes, the first incident was recorded and I have a form here to record this last one, which I'm completing today. The rest would be decided by GP opinion as to whether that may have caused or contributed to your current ailments. A bit like a bang on the head now could be an undiagnosed skull fracture (OK - a bit far fetched in this context) - something which was not seen as worthy of visiting the doctor now, but could be relevant to a deterioration later.

 

I've decided to take tomorrow off and see my GP. I'll let you know what he says....

[PriorityOne]

Ok.... saw the GP this morning and he looked at my knees. He diagnosed bad bruising/swelling and gave me a prescription for pain killers. He told me to use ice packs every few hours and not to stand up too much or drive.... so I'm thinking of not rushing back to work too fast now and putting my own needs before the job for a change!! I'm sure my name will be mud within work circles for this.... but hey-ho.

 

While I was there, I also spoke about the severe pain in my back and hips and told the GP that arthritis is in my family, my mum had it in her spine (and spondylitis)... and that I can't ignore it any longer. I told him that I'd had an x-ray on my upper back some years ago which showed nothing and should I have an MRI this time? He said that he was reluctant to send me for an MRI because it's so much more powerful than an x-ray and he didn't like to send people to have one straight away. As I was now approaching him re. my lower back, he felt that I should start with having x-rays and see what they showed. So... I've had my lower back and hips x-rayed this morning

 

He noted on my records that I'd had a work-related injury re. my knees and I also asked him to note that I'd had a previous incident in January when I slipped on an icy path while going into work and fell on my side.... although he said that it was too late to link the problems I have now with that incident because I'd left it too long before mentioning it, I assume.

 

So... that's it for now. I'm assuming that the only thing left to do to cover myself would be to complete the DWP forms for both injuries and have them logged. Is that right? I have to say though that having mulled over the events re. work for the last few days, the fact that my knees are in such a state has really p*ssed me off and I'm wondering about issuing a claim now but whether I'd be inviting trouble for myself in doing so.

 

What do people think?

[PriorityOne]

Do you mean a PI claim?

 

Great that your GP was so supportive. I don't think it matters too much at this time that he has not linked the two incidents, it will be an issue when you want to use it. Now you have X Rays you will be able to track the changes to your condition and potentially attribute any future incident to it.

 

You have 3 years from the date of the incident to start a PI claim. Personally I would wait to see what the treatment does for now and if you have a residual problem that is significant then perhaps you could consider it. Remember you have to link the problem with the incident and that mean basically that an 'expert' doctor will make an assessment to link them or otherwise. Perhaps you should wait for a change and deterioration in the condition. Difficult one to call at this stage.

 

Yes... a PI claim... My knees are very stiff today and I'm quite angry now that this has happened... in light of the fact that I fell in January as well AND was expected to move furniture around at the end of August. I wasn't intending to use all of this; it's just contributed hugely to the mood I'm in re. work at the moment.

 

An "expert" doctor.... hmm. I wonder just how independent these people really are. However, I haven't had any problems with my knees up until this incident, so if they do deteriorate, then I'll know why. If I do decide to take a few days off work this week after all, then work have to make a RIDDOR report as well, so would it be in my interests to do this, or will it not make any difference?

 

It wasn't my initial intention to make a PI claim and I certainly don't want to rush into it without knowing what I'm doing either.... but, I do want to protect my position if I need to refer back to the incident to support any claim I might make in the future.... or, if I need to take any more time off work re. joint problems.

[PriorityOne]

this would not come under the riddor option but the erica

 

did your employer record it onto the erica database

 

it must be recorded within 24 hours or 48 if a weekend

 

its a legal requirement

 

I went up to see HR the same day it happened but have not yet given them my completed accident report form. What is Erica?

[PriorityOne]

have a nose

 

 

http://www.cwu.org/personal-injury-claims.html

 

Ok... I see (I think)... will have a more thorough read later.... thank you

 

I don't think my employer will have logged anything under Erica but don't know for certain. I was sent away to "find" a First Aider in order to get an accident form; not for anyone to look me over. No-one contacted me about the incident after that or ask for the accident form and I was in work on Friday.

 

I rang in sick this morning and said I needed to go the GP following the fall I had on Thursday.... so the accident form has yet to be handed in. I could get a colleague to photocopy it and do this for me, if necessary. I could also email HR if necessary.... in fact, I'll probably have to because I've got no intention of rushing back.

 

[PriorityOne]

The riddor system is used for death and seriouse accidents that require hospital treatment

 

erica is for minor

 

its used as accident reporting and future risk assesment

 

again your direct manager needs to report it within 48 hours max

 

its a legal requirement and is for your protection

 

WE USE THE ERICA REPORTING FOR THINGS SUCH AS MINOR DOG BITES ETC

 

ime a health and safety officer for my office

 

I've just looked at the accident form and it says nothing about Erica on there but does mention RIDDOR. Is it my responsibiity (as well) to get this form back to HR asap? Should I be concerned about that?

 

I'm not sure my direct line manager knew anything about the accident until yesterday when I sent her a text to say I wouldn't be in. She didn't seem bothered about it and was more concerned that my work was covered.... bl**dy charming, eh?

[PriorityOne]

Pass the buck it seems

 

demand it be recorded

 

its for your protection

 

it should all be done online now as the hse has direct access to it

 

you need to be speaking to your qualified first aider or fire rep

 

your company are breaking the law by not taking this serious

 

Oh crikey!! I have the form here.... I could send my daughter to drop it off today, if necessary.... should I??!!

 

If you use the riddor form the hse will not be impressed and throw it straight back

 

do you have a health and safety officer at work

 

We must have one somewhere.... but I have no idea who it is.... This is the only form I've been given! Do I need to ask for a different one? It will be investigated when I go back because one of the questions on the sicky form is if it's work-related ot not...

 

 

I just had a look on the HSE website about Erica and couldn't find a lot, it could be me. There is a rule under RIDDOR though that covers 3 day absences, which might include you at this point. You might want to have a read or possibly ring the helpline they have. Another cagger on the forum did, and I believe they were helpful. You have nothing to lose, after all. The number's on the HSE website.

 

As I understand it, RIDDOR is your employer's responsiblity and non-negotiable once the incident comes under the rules. Have a read of the HSE [Health and Safety Executive] if you can, or ask us more. I hope you feel better soon. I also have arthritis problems and it's no fun.

 

My best, HB

 

Thank you... I haven't been off for 3 days yet but if it offers me more protection by doing so, then I'll do it and ring the HSE. My knees are stiff and painful because of this and I'm not in any hurry to go back to work like this...

[PriorityOne]

P1 I don't think RIDDOR has any relevance to a PI claim. One is buraucracy and the other a civil matter regarding negligence. The HSE always have the option to prosecute so employers need to tell them of incidents. Focus on what you need to do re DWP.

 

Ok... should my employer have given me a different form then? If so, then they should have done this re. the first accident in January as well, I s'pose.

[PriorityOne]

Ok... I've copied the accident report HR gave me here at home (forgot I had a copy facility on my printer.... duh!).... and sent my daughter to drop it off at work for me.

 

The rest is up to them.... although when I do go back and complete the sicky form, they won't be able to ignore it. My company normally follow procedure with things, so I can't think that they would ignore this anyway, to be honest. If it happened to a member of the public or a child, they might have been in deep doo-doo.

[PriorityOne]

Ok... should I email HR then? That way I'll have it on record that I've tried to sort it.... even though she should have given the correct paperwork to me in the first place (IMO)

[PriorityOne]

Yes i would but talk to your company health and safety rep as a matter of urgency

 

Thanks postggj...

 

I've just sent a text to someone to find out who the H&S person is.... so I can copy them into the email before I send it....

[PriorityOne]

I've just had a reply to my text.... and the H&S person is the same person I spoke to in HR. The accident form is the ONLY form I've filled in and she didn't give it to me. I had to get it myself from a First Aider.

 

So... I'll email her and ask if there's another form I should have filled in on H&S grounds.... and if so, to leave it in reception and my daughter can pick it up for me tomorrow. Is there anything else I should be asking/saying at this point?

[PriorityOne]

The most important thing is the accident is recorded

 

ask for an email receipt

 

Brilliant... will do! I can get a "delivery receipt" and a "read receipt".... I'll let you know what happens....

[PriorityOne]

Well.... it's been delivered.... and it's been read. I have a receipt for both. That was half an hour ago and no response as yet. Unusual for her; she normally replies to things immediately and my request wasn't complicated.... did I need to complete a H&S form as well as an accident form? and if so, to let me know and I'd get someone to drive down and pick one up.

 

I don't think this has been logged at all....

 

[PriorityOne]

Still no reply....

 

I'm starting to wonder if I've opened a can of worms here.... I don't think she can answer me actually. If she says "Yes, pick up a form"... then it confirms that 24 hours have passed since the incident and it wasn't logged. If she says "No, it doesn't need to be logged", the company could/would be in trouble with HSE for ignoring it.

 

Are there any other scenarios here?

 

Oh yes.... the "pop up to my office for a chat" option..... where nothing gets put in writing and people hope the situation will vanish. That won't solve it either though; not by my reckoning anyway.

 

Surely she won't try and suggest that it doesn't fall under H&S..... would she??!!

 

Thinking out loud here....

[PriorityOne]

Things can be logged retrospectively. I doubt they would get in trouble. My wife's employer never logged anything and nothing happened to our knowledge. Just wait thing will happen.

 

Still no reply this morning.... what shall I do? This is my 2nd day off work and tomorrow will be 3. I hope to go in before the end of the week though.... Should I email again and query the non-reply? Leave it for when I go back?

What do people think?

[PriorityOne]

Have decided not to chase it up with HR.... but will fill in the sicky form when I go back. I have it on record that I've emailed and it's been read, so I assume I've covered myself here. I will also ring the HSE when I go back and have a chat with them.... and complete the DWP forms for both accidents and send them off.

 

Think that sounds sensible and covers everything.... unless anyone has any other suggestions....

[PriorityOne]

Hi there. I think a chat with the HSE is a good thing. Their helpline was good with another cagger, I may have mentioned. They can also make unannounced visits depending on how bad the problem is.

 

I hope you feel better soon and I hope going back to work goes well.

 

My best, HB

 

Thanks HB

 

I did give HSE a ring today actually but the lady on the other end just talked about RIDDOR and being off for more than 3 days. When I go back, I'll check to make sure that HR have logged the accident and if I need to ring HSE again, I will.

 

[PriorityOne]

Does that mean you'll have been off for 3 days following the incident, P1, even if it wasn't immediately after it happened?

 

HB

 

I have been off for 2 days so far and am not in tomorrow. Under RIDDOR, they need an employer report if it's more than 3 consecutive days; whatever the injury as far as I can make out. I would llike to think that HR will report it under Erica but RIDDOR is something extra.

 

This is still a learning curve for me.... but I'm getting there. In theory, I could go back to work on Thursday but my knees are very stiff at the moment (not sore as such... but aching).... and the more I think about things, the crosser I get, which makes me reluctant to return until the stiffness eases off.