Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Taking British gas to court.


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5051 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hello.

I have a real big problem with British gas and could do with some advice.

About 2 years ago I move house as I was made redundant and found work elsewhere. I called 2 weeks before I moved and then on the day I moved with readings so I could get a final bill. (as per their rules and instructions) I never received one. Instead I started to get threatening letters and calls from collection agencies for an amount which was way over what I was expecting. Over the next few months I sent many e-mails and made many calls to British gas trying to get a correct bill. (It took 3 months for them to even admit they MAY have made a mistake) They admitted that they were charging me for usage after I moved out but still said I owed it. After speaking to the collection agencies and sending them proof I no longer lived there, they returned the debt to British gas and sent me a confirmation letter stating that they would no longer pursue the matter. All British gas did is give it to another agency. Shortly after I moved I tried to get a cheap car on finance so I could take a new job. I needed a car so I could get back quickly after work to pick up my son from nursery. I was denied finance and when I went on-line to find out why I saw that British gas had put a default notice on my credit reference. 2 years after moving out, British gas have finally sent me a bill which they say is correct. (I don't have much trust in their idea of correct.) The same day I received this bill I also had a new letter from a collection agency and several threatening calls. I have no problem in paying the bill, BUT first I want the default notice taken off and I want compensation for the major inconvenience they have caused me. It has been extremely hard to find work close enough to where I live that pays well enough to pay all my bills. If it wasn't for British gas I would have had a car and a job that paid well. Now I have no car and I am struggling to find work that I can get back from in time to pick up my son. As you can imagine, 2 years of people threatening to take you to court also takes its toll, especially if it's not your fault you are in this situation. I have just sent a letter of intent to British gas but I don't hold much hope for them to rectify the situation.

 

Any advice you can give on how to take this further or even letting me know if I actually have a chance at getting what I want would be great. Thanks for reading. :)

 

D. McHale

Link to post
Share on other sites

YAY ! Score one for the little guy.

I found a post which had the name of a solicitor that was very helpful. It turns out that there are a growing number of people who have won cases against large companies on the basis of harassment. If a company is perusing you in an aggressive manner, (contacting you more than twice a week) it falls under a violation of the "protection against harassment act 1997". In order for you to make a claim you need to make sure these statements apply to you.

 

1. You do not owe all or some of the amount they are asking for.

2. You have contacted the company to try and resolve the matter.

 

I will say, This is my final play. the only reason I am doing this is because I have exhausted all other options. It is a good idea to go through the proper channels first before getting to this point so please be careful as there are always risks of losing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Was all this communication with British Gas done on the phone or email? If you can recover any of this communication do so ASAP.

 

You must write a complaint letter (recorded delivery) to BG stating your story, saying they are harrassing you, that they or their agents have libelled you and you have suffered loss by an adverse CRA reference. Invite them to invoke the billing code. If they have not billed you for 1 year (which they have not) then they cannot expect paiyment.

 

Tell them that you will either make a complaint to the Energy Ombudsman or take them to court if they do not sort this to your satisfaction.

 

You told them 2x that you were leaving and gave them readings. This matter is then entirely their error and you should resist payment. They may try to say that you did not give a forwarding address. My answer to that is that if their operatives were properly trained they would have asked you your next address so that they could send you the final bill.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tried to do most of it by e-mail so i can record all correspondance but they continue to call. after they have called i asked them to put it in writing and send it to me so i have all bases covered. as for the credit report, i have a copy and the only blemish on there is their default. due to the fact i have not been working much, bills have pilled up so i would not be suprised to see a few notes for missing payments over the last year but this is all due to the circumstances caused by british gas.

Link to post
Share on other sites

F.A.O. Phil Bentley Managing Director.

This is a formal notice of intent to take legal action against British Gas for compensation.

For almost 2 years I have tried to resolve an issue with a bill from a previous address, and I have only just managed to get a correct bill. I had every intension of paying what I owed but you have made it an unbearable process. In November 2008 I left my last place of residence after calling British gas on 2 separate occasions with a meter reading. I was told that a final bill would be sent to my new address. No bills ever turned up, and after a while I started to call British gas to see why. The answer I got was... "We have sent another one out, you should receive it in about a week." I still did not receive a bill. This went on for a while and every time I gave you my new address. While I was trying to get my bill, I started receiving threatening letters from debt collection agencies asking for an amount which was much more than I was expecting. I called British gas again to see if I could get my bill and to find out why it was so high and I was told..." I am sorry but your account has been passed on, so you will have to take it up with the collection agency."For about a year I was calling British gas and as many as 4 different collection agencies to find out what was going on. After a long time it was passed to Wescot services and they finally told me that the bill was for usage of gas for a period that exceeded the time I lived there. I sent them a letter including proof of when I moved out and a copy of my new tenancy agreement and they returned the account to British gas. By the time I got the letter saying they had passed it back and called British gas, you had passed it on to yet another debt collector. I have only just received a bill which looks close enough to what I expected. I can't say it is accurate but then again from what I have heard I doubt you can either.

You would think that being hounded for almost 2 years for money that you don't owe would be bad enough... It gets worse.

Shortly after moving here I tried to get a car on finance to enable me to get to and from work in time to drop off and pick up my son from nursery. When I tried to get a small amount of finance for a car, I was turned down. I decided to have a look at my credit report and noticed that British gas had place a default notice on my financial record (the only blemish on there) for not paying a bill. Given the fact that you record and take notes from all calls you would expect that there may be some sort of sign that I was not happy with the fictional bill and that I had tried to resolve the situation. Especially when the people you asked to get it from me gave the debt back.

As a result of the default notice, I was unable to buy a car which in turn stopped me from working as if I was to take public transport, my working hours would be restricted to 10 am - 4 pm. in order for me to get to and from my sons nursery to pick him up. The only work I could have got would have been part time which would not have met my financial needs or employ a child minder which would have cost me more than I was earning. I have now had to resort to moving to a more expensive area so I can be closer to the town centre (where I hope to be working) and also pull my son out of his nursery and move him to a new one.

It has only been in the last few weeks that I have seen any kind of movement on British gas's part and I think it may have something to do with the fact I mentioned legal action. As I mentioned, I now have my bill and I have received a call from your complaints department apologizing and offering to clear the default notice and take £100 off my bill. I have decided not to accept the offer as you would construe the acceptance of this as a resolution to the issue. Too little too late.

I have been in touch with a solicitor, who has told me that you were in breach of the "Protection against harassment Act 1997" .

You have it on your own records that I tried to resolve the issue on many occasions. I have letters from 4 different collection agencies including a letter from Wescot services who state that they reported back to British gas after their investigation, and told you that I did NOT owe that amount and that I proved it. I also have another letter showing that despite the fact the debt was returned you passed it onto yet another collection agency. I never thought it would get this far but I am not just going to take an apology and £100 when British gas have caused me so much financial and emotional strain for almost 2 years.

If you wish to settle this out of court I would be happy to talk but I do not wish to drag this out for much longer. Please do not think I am being rude or threatening, I just want some acknowledgement that I have been unfairly mistreated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi dagenhamdave1.

 

Hope you dont mind this, but I have tweaked your letter a bit and post an amended version here for you to consider. I have to say though that once I reached the end I was taken by surprise. To be honest - if a court hears that a sizable compensation was offered (presuming you really are happy with the final bill?) then you might fail and /or not be offered costs? The same would also likely apply to Ombuds complaint? You might be better if you responded that you would be happy to reach agreement, providing that they gave a written apology and corrected their Credit Reference error. Unless of course your solicitor can get you Legal Aid? In which case, feel free to ignore my opinion:)

The Tweaked Letter is here, though I have left the ending (my bits are written in red - so hope this shows up for you)...

 

 

(YOUR ADDRESS)

F.A.O. Phil Bentley Managing Director. (ADDRESS)

(DATE)

Dear Mr Bentley,

RE: (ACCOUNT NO (etc)).

This is a formal notice of intent to take legal action against British Gas for compensation.

For almost 2 years now I have tried to resolve a billing issue from my previous address, and I have only just managed to get this correction agreed.

I had every intension of paying any monies owed, but you [company] have made it an unbearable process.

In November 2008 I left my last place of residence. After calling British gas on two separate occasions, with a meter reading, I was told that a Final Bill would be sent to my new address. However, no such bill was ever received.

After allowing a reasonable time I called British gas, on several occasions to query this delay. The answer given was... "We have sent another one [bill] out and you should receive it in about a week." Every time I called I confirmed with your operative that you did have a record of my correct address.

Whilst I was still trying to get my Final bill, I began to receive threatening letters from debt collectionclip_image001.gif agencies, who informed me that they were acting on your behalf and demanded payment for a sum which was far higher than I was expecting.

I called British gas again to query both the amount and why an external agency had written. However, I was told that as the account had been “passed on” I would have to direct my questions to the Collection Agency. This situation continued for about a year, with me calling British gas and as many as 4 different collection agencies to find out what was going on.

After some considerable time my account was passed to Wescot services and they, finally, told me that the bill included gas usage for a period that exceeded the time I lived there!

I sent them the proof of when I moved out along with a copy of my new tenancy agreement and they returned the account to British gas and wrote to inform me. However, by the time I got this letter, you had passed it on to yet another debt collector!

I have only just received a bill which looks closer to what I had expected. I can't say it is accurate but then again, I doubt you can either? You would think that being hounded for almost 2 years for money that you don't owe would be bad enough... But it does get worse...

 

Shortly after moving house I was refused finance for a car. As I knew my Credit history to be good, I obtained my credit reportclip_image001.gif and noticed that British gas had noted an incorrect default notice on my financial record (the only blemish on there) for alleged non payment of a bill – despite knowing that this was still under dispute.

 

As a result of the default notice, I was unable to buy a car which, in turn, has had negative implications on my income and earning potential, so much so that I have now had to re-locate again to a more expensive area so I can be closer to the town centre (where I hope to be working).

It has only been in the last few weeks that I have seen any kind of movement on British gas's part and I firmly believe this is because I stated my intention of seeking legal action.

 

As I mentioned, I now have my bill and I have received a call from your complaints department apologizing and offering to clear the default notice and take £100 off my bill. I have decided not to accept the offer as you would construe the acceptance of this as a resolution to the issue. Too little too late.

 

I have been in touch with a solicitor, who has told me that you were in breach of the "Protection against harassment Act 1997" . You have it on your own records that I tried to resolve the issue on many occasions. I have letters from 4 different collection agencies including a letter from Wescot services who state that they reported back to British Gas after their investigation, and told you that I did NOT owe that amount and that I proved it. I also have another letter showing that despite the fact the debt was returned you passed it onto yet another collection agency. I never thought it would get this far but I am not just going to take an apology and £100 when British gas have caused me so much financial and emotional strain for almost 2 years.

 

 

If you wish to settle this out of court I would be happy to talk but I do not wish to drag this out for much longer. Please do not think I am being rude or threatening, I just want some acknowledgement that I have been unfairly mistreated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks so much for taking the time to tweak the letter. The reason why I won't take their offer is because I honestly do not think it is worth all the hassle they have caused me. By now I should be working a nicely paid job with a car. I would have paid off the loan for the car and I would still be able to live in this house rather than moving AGAIN. I want to get some real compensation and then I want to plaster the outcome all over the internet so may be British gas will stop treating people so badly. I know I could lose but even if I do, at least I didn't just lay there and take it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...