We have so much debt, it seems only hope is selling house!

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Wilchil

 

You don't need to reply at all. they are trying to scare you and replying is like negotiating with children or terrorists.

 

The DN is an alleged statement of fact which does not require a reply.

 

You must resist the urge to scratch the itch; nothing you write will alter their course. Maintain your actions of good faith in paying what you can afford and ignore provocations; this will be a long haul; you will be strong.

 

x

 

vic

[Bigdebtor]

Wil

 

I don't agree with Vic on this. You have an opportunity here to get closure quite quickly and easily with both these OC's.

 

I would divide the big letter into two letters - each with different objectives.

 

1. If you want the agreement terminated, which is probably what you should now want from both Santander and MBNA if they won't play ball with accepting your frozen interest and charges proposals, then I would send a letter with just the 3rd paragraph (not paras 1 and 2) - but also add something like. "If you have NOT opting to demand the full outstanding balance and/or formally terminate the agreement at this point then please clarify this by return, along with confirmation of your acceptance of the proposal made by me in my letters of xxx, xx and xx which accompanied cheque numbers XX, XX and XX, all of which have been banked by you (MISS OUT ANY NOT BANKED OR RETURNED). If you are not prepared to accept my proposals then I do not see any point in our continuing with the agreement as I cannot afford to pay any more than I have offered (and have paid) over the last few months since my original proposal of XX May(or whenever). In such a case I therefore feel it would be best to let the Court decide whether to order that I should now have to pay you the total outstanding balance now being demanded by you or alternatively how much I should have to pay you on a regular basis, and for the Court to decide whether any further interest and charges should be levied or waived.

2. If you still want them to accept your monthly payments or make an alternative suggested payment plan then just send paras 1 and 2 - but not 3.

 

As I said, in the case of MBNA and Santander I would now go for Option 1 above. If they DON'T confirm it's terminated then you can either send off £1 to get the CCA (and see if it exists and is enforceable) or simply send yet another letter repeating the original (or a now reduced?) proposal and including the cheque- and see if they do go for it this time - or issue a TN or another DN followed by a TN.

 

Don't worry! You really have nothing to lose. They want as much of your money as you can give them - but unless they do follow through with court action then YOU decide who gets how much and when - not them or any puppet DCA they involve.

 

BD

Edited September 9, 2010 by Bigdebtor

[wilchil64]

We have received 2 more letters today, scans attached. Not sure that M&S had received our cheque at that point. Seems MBNA are replying to our letter.

 

Do I just carry on as before?

M&S card rcvd 9910.PDF

MBNA card rcvd 9910.PDF

[wilchil64]

Thanks BD, I see what you mean, but MBNA haven't sent a DN yet - or so it seems, it is just a notice of arrears by the look of it. So shall I carry on with lower payments for them and send the letter re. I deem you to have accepted my proposals by cashing my cheques/

 

I have to admit it is very daunting to send a letter to Santander, telling them I'd like the court to decide this one! There is no way I could pay the total outstanding amount if I was ordered to do so! You are now going to tell me that won't happen, aren't you?!

 

Re. sending off for CCA, both of these are new accounts (taken out this year and last year, so I presume it's likely they have CCA.)

[Bigdebtor]

Thanks BD, I see what you mean, but MBNA haven't sent a DN yet - or so it seems, it is just a notice of arrears by the look of it. So shall I carry on with lower payments for them and send the letter re. I deem you to have accepted my proposals by cashing my cheques.

 

OK if you want then do the "deem" option for MBNA for another month - to see if they accept the proposal or issue a formal DN after 3 month's "arrears".

I have to admit it is very daunting to send a letter to Santander, telling them I'd like the court to decide this one! There is no way I could pay the total outstanding amount if I was ordered to do so! You are now going to tell me that won't happen, aren't you?!

 

TRUST ME! YOU ARE AN AWFUL LONG WAY FROM COURT - and the judge WOULD only order you to pay what you can afford. It won't happen! Call their bluff. You are possibly only weeks away from getting this one sorted in your favour if you tread carefully.

Re. sending off for CCA, both of these are new accounts (taken out this year and last year, so I presume it's likely they have CCA.)

 

RE CCA - probably no point doing the £1 option then - but perhaps others have experience of more recent unenforceable CCA's than I have (mine are all 5+ years old).

[Bigdebtor]

We have received 2 more letters today, scans attached. Not sure that M&S had received our cheque at that point. Seems MBNA are replying to our letter.

 

Do I just carry on as before?

 

It looks as if you've just scanned in the 2nd page of each letter. However it's clear that MBNA won't play ball - but won't default formally until 6 months arrears. Their letter doesn't make sense. If you were clearly in trouble BEFORE taking out ANOTHER debt (with them) then you must be in even more trouble now and in more need of their help. They are even laying themseves open to itrresponsible lending if they lent you the money when you were already in trouble. I would ask them to explain their logic - and tell them you'll not send any more cheques until they confirm have accepted your proposal - which you deem them to have done unless they return the payments already banked which were sent with the proposal letters .

 

Not sure what M&S want - need page 1 of their letter too. o

[wilchil64]

OK, thanks.

 

Below is a revised draft letter to Santander cards:

 

" Dear Sir or Madam,

Re.: Credit Card Account Number xxx

 

Further to your letters dated xx, xx and xx, I acknowledge receipt of the Default Notice dated xx demanding payment of the arrears within 14 days. I am not in a position to make the payment detailed as demanded within 14 days of the date of the Default Notice, i.e. before xx. Can you please clarify if this means the agreement is terminated as of xx (i.e. 14 days after the date of issue of the default notice) since if this is the case I will need to seek further advice from CCCS, CAB or other independent sources of advice. It is therefore important that you confirm my legal position regarding the termination or otherwise of the agreement as from the date from which I will have failed to comply with the demands detailed in the Default Notice.

 

If you are NOT opting to demand the full outstanding balance and/or formally terminate the agreement at this point then please clarify this by return, along with confirmation of your acceptance of the proposal made by me in my letters of xx, xx and xx which accompanied cheque numbers xxx, xxx and xxx, all of which have been banked by you. If you are not prepared to accept my proposals then I do not see any point in our continuing with the agreement as I cannot afford to pay any more than I have offered (and have paid) over the last few months since my original proposal of xxxxxx. In such a case I therefore feel it would be best to let the Court decide whether to order that I should now have to pay you the total outstanding balance now being demanded by you or alternatively how much I should have to pay you on a regular basis, and for the Court to decide whether any further interest and charges should be levied or waived.

 

Yours faithfully,".

 

 

Thanks.

[wilchil64]

No, they were very short letters, MBNA just said they won't consider a reduced payment a we took out the card but never paid full minimum amount. If arrears pass 6 mths account will default.

 

M&S just said we should act now as our credit rep. is at risk and that they want us to call them!

[Bigdebtor]

Wilchil

 

I'm sending you a new pm.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Thanks BD.

 

Here's a new draft letter to MBNA:

 

"Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re.: Account xxxx

 

Further to your letters dated xxxxxx and xxxxxx.

 

Please explain the logic of your letter dated xxxxxx.

 

I will not send any more cheques until you confirm you have accepted my proposal outlined in my earlier letters, which I deem you to have accepted by cashing my earlier cheques numbers xxx, xxx and xxx, each for £xx.xx being the revised affordable monthly amount offered by me in the letters outlining my proposals on xxxxxx, xxxxxx and xxxxxx, unless you return the payments already banked.

 

Yours faithfully,""

[Bigdebtor]

That looks OK to me. It should at least smoke them out!

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Thanks.

 

And letter to Santander as draft below:

 

"Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re.: Credit Card Account Number xxxx

 

Further to your letters dated xx and xx, I deem you to have accepted my proposals by cashing my earlier cheques numbers xxx, xxx and xxx, each for £xx.xx, being the revised affordable monthly amount offered by me in the letters outlining my proposals on xx, xx and xx.

 

Please confirm by return you do accept my proposal of £xx.xx per month with all interest and charges waived with effect from [first letter I sent with lower payments].

 

Further to my previous letters, I do not wish to correspond by phone. Written communication by post or e-mail is my preferred method of contact and I will NOT discuss the matter any further by phone.

 

Yours faithfully,"

 

 

Thanks!

[Bigdebtor]

Thanks BD.

 

Here's a new draft letter to MBNA:

 

"Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re.: Account xxxx

 

Further to your letters dated xxxxxx and xxxxxx.

 

Please explain the logic of your letter dated xxxxxx. If I was already in financial trouble when I took out the agreement with you then it's surely even more important to help me when I ask for it? We are always told - don't stick your head in the sand - if you'r ein trouble just tell us - we're here to help. Well - I am in trouble and I do need help. I thought the OFT and FOS advised that cases such as mine should be treated with sympathy - not be ignored?

 

If that's true/not true - you tell them which - was it you were not in trouble then - but just after - caused by your husband gett ing made redundant - then tell them that - state when it happened)

I will not send any more cheques until you confirm you have accepted my proposal outlined in my earlier letters, which I deem you to have accepted by cashing my earlier cheques numbers xxx, xxx and xxx, each for £xx.xx being the revised affordable monthly amount offered by me in the letters outlining my proposals on xxxxxx, xxxxxx and xxxxxx, unless you return the payments already banked.

 

Yours faithfully,""

 

See added bits in bold (further thoughts)

 

BD

[Bigdebtor]

Thanks.

 

And letter to Santander as draft below:

 

"Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re.: Credit Card Account Number xxxx

 

Further to your letters dated xx and xx, I deem you to have accepted my proposals by cashing my earlier cheques numbers xxx, xxx and xxx, each for £xx.xx, being the revised affordable monthly amount offered by me in the letters outlining my proposals on xx, xx and xx.

 

Please confirm by return you do accept my proposal of £xx.xx per month with all interest and charges waived with effect from [first letter I sent with lower payments].

 

Further to my previous letters, I do not wish to correspond by phone. Written communication by post or e-mail is my preferred method of contact and I will NOT discuss the matter any further by phone.

 

Yours faithfully,"

 

 

Thanks!

 

looks fine to me.

[wilchil64]

Thanks.

 

The reason for taking out the MBNA card was we needed to transfer a balance from a card that had started to charge a lot of interest (we've been constantly transferring amounts to interest free credit cards for several years now, but not getting anywhere with it, plus new emergencies happen. At the end of the day, we just didn't have enough income to cover outgoings! ) to another interest free (or actually I think it might have been low interest for the life of the balance transfer) card.

[Bigdebtor]

OK - then I would expand the MBNA letter as shown above to put more pressure on them to accept.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Thanks.

 

Amended draft to MBNA below:

 

"Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re.: Account xxxx

 

Further to your letters dated xxxxxx and xxxxxx.

 

Please explain the logic of your letter dated xxxxxx. If I was already in financial trouble when I took out the agreement with you then it's surely even more important to help me when I ask for it? We are always told to not stick our heads in the sand, if we're in trouble just tell you, that you're here to help. Well - I am in trouble and I do need help. I thought the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman Service advised that cases such as mine should be treated with sympathy - not be ignored?

 

I will not send any more cheques until you confirm you have accepted my proposal outlined in my earlier letters, which I deem you to have accepted by cashing my earlier cheques numbers xxx, xxx and xxx, each for £xx.xx being the revised affordable monthly amount offered by me in the letters outlining my proposals on xxxxxx, xxxxxx and xxxxxx, unless you return the payments already banked.

 

Yours faithfully,""

[wilchil64]

Hi,

 

We had another two letters in the post today, I've attached them below. One is from the HFC, short later, stating we have to call them or make the payment. Can I send a similar letter to one suggested above, about will NOT ring them, only prepared to correspond by letter or email?

 

The other is from Santander loans, thanking us for our letter and asking us to call as they need to discuss. Same letter re. not prepared to discuss on phone?

 

Thanks!

santander loan rcvd 10910.PDF

hfc rcvd 10910.PDF

[Bigdebtor]

Yes just send a letter along previous lines above stating you are happy to discuss in writing - either by letter or e-mail - but NOT by post - and do not understand why they insist on you phoning as anything agreed by phone would need to be subsequently agreed in writing in any case - and given the urgency that you assume they also apply to your situation you want to miss out this further delay and go straight to a written agreement - which you thought you had already as they had banked your cheque nos XXX, XXX etc. sent with your proposals on XX June, XX July etc. In any case you cannot afford to pay the high costs of ringing 0870 numbers (which I think give them a kickback from BT!)

 

You might also refer to their advice to contact CCCS etc. - and tell them you have done so and are following their advice in offering the monthly payment you can afford and urge them to accept it.

 

If you get a DN from HFC then fine - your credit rating is shot in any case now.

 

BD

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Hon,

Just catching up with your thread

Stick at it, you're doing really well and getting some great support.

Bigdebtor - do you want to pm me your thoughts on the DN to see if they match my own thoughts?

kind regards,

Elsa x

[wilchil64]

Thanks guys! Have a great weekend.

[wilchil64]

How does this sound as a reply to HFC?

 

" Dear Sir/Madam,

Re.: Account No. xxx

 

Further to your letter dated xxxxxx and to my previous letters, I am happy to discuss this matter in writing, either by letter or e-mail - but NOT by phone -, and I do not understand why you insist on me phoning, as anything agreed by phone would need to be subsequently agreed in writing in any case, and, given the urgency that I assume you also apply to my situation, I wish to avoid this further delay and go straight to a written agreement, which I thought I had already as you had banked my cheque no xxx sent with my proposals on xxxxxx and xxxxxx. In any case I cannot afford to pay the high costs of ringing 0870 numbers.

 

 

Please therefore confirm by return you do accept my proposal of £xx.xx per month with all interest and charges waived with effect from xxxxxx.

 

Further to your advice to contact Consumer Credit Counselling Service etc., I am sure you will be pleased to hear that I have done so, as previously advised in my letters dated xxxxxx, xxxxxx and xxxxxx, and that I am following their advice in offering the monthly payment I can afford and I urge you to accept it.

 

Yours faithfully,"

 

 

Thanks!

[Bigdebtor]

Elsa

 

I'll pm you shortly re the DN.

 

BD

[Bigdebtor]

Wilchil

 

Great letter - go for it. Keep us posted on reponsne.

 

BD

[Bigdebtor]

Wilchill

 

I have been reading more on the dodgy DN thread. Based on this I think it's important that you DON'T pay anything further to the lot who sent you the "within 14 days" DN.

 

You don't need to do any more letters to them at present or pay them any more. They made it clear what they would do if you didn't pay the arrears within 14 days. Since you can't afford to pay the arrears then pay them NO MORE - not even the amount you have been paying so far which they have taken without honouring the implied agreement.

 

Did a payment from you cross in the post with the DN? If so , has it been banked by them yet? If not, then ask your bank to cancel that cheque - as they clearly are not going to accept your proposal, but will continue to bank your cheques.

 

If you need to know more I'll pm you.

 

BD