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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times. ×


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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Can anyone help?

Pebbles10

By Pebbles10
in Debt Collection Agencies

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Pebbles10

Pebbles10

Posted
Posted

Hello,

I only registered the other day and this is my first post so do excuse me if I've put it in the wrong place.

 

I was wondering if anyone might be able to offer me some advice over a matter thats causing me a lot of worry and sleepless nights.

 

I have 2 credit card debts, both are with debt collectors due to me not having worked for 5 years because of ill health. I'm paying one with a small token payment but the debt collector is getting really nasty all the same. The other one I'm not paying as they haven't sent me a proper credit agreement but they are taking me to court. I've managed to respond to it so far from information I've gleaned by lurking on threads with similar situations. I'm sorry about the lurking before I registered.

 

My worry is that if they get a CCJ they will get a charging order. I have a strong feeling that the other debt collector will do the same in the near future.

 

Since me not being at work my daughter has been paying the shortfall on the mortgage payment. DWP pay so much of the interest, my daughter pays the rest. She has also paid for quite a lot of improvements to the house.

 

I already have a ccj and charging order maybe I wouldn't if I knew about CAG back then but I went to CAB who just told me to admit the debt to save myself the stress. Sorry if I'm rambling.

 

What I'm hoping to find out is if there is anyway I can safeguard the equity in the house for my daughter as she has paid so much money into it. I have heard of a voluntary charge but I can't find anything about how it works.

 

If anyone can tell me about voluntary charges, or anything else I could do to stop the debt collectors getting their claws into the house I'd be so grateful.

 

Thank you for taking time to read this.

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palomino

palomino

Posted
Posted

Oh dear, you have our sympathy. It sounds as though you've had a pretty rotten deal.

 

A voluntary charge is the same as a charging order but without the legal hassle. It saves the creditor some money as well.

In effect you are exchanging a high-interest unsecured loan for a high-interest secured loan. As you can imagine there isn't much benefit in it for you.

 

You say you have two debts and also a charging order, and that you are concerned that one of the creditors will seek a CCJ and a charging order. Is the existing charging order related to the other debt or is it for something else entirely?

 

As for the mortgage : is your house in negative equity? There are a lot of twists and turns on this matter so we'll try and eliminate the irrelevant bits first.

Essentially, though, if you owe more on the house than it's worth (taking into account both the mortgage and all other debts secured on it) then your daughter doesn't have any equity at all. Sad but true.

 

Charging orders work like this : a creditor will obtain a CCJ against the debtor. If the debtor has property of any sort registered with the Land Registry (not just their own residence) they can then apply for a charging order on that property.

The Land Registry will not allow the title of that property to be transferred until the person obtaining the charging order has provided them with a certificate to say that the order has been satisfied - hence you can't sell or otherwise dispose of the property while the order is in place. What you do to satisfy the order is between you and the creditor - usually it is paying off the debt and all the associated legal costs (the creditor has you completely over a barrell at this point). Once you have done that then you can dispose of the property.

Hence you are quite right to be concerned about this matter.

 

Feel free to keep asking questions - there are many people here who can help you.

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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supasnooper

supasnooper

Posted
Posted

I'd be proactive here and send a Consumer Credit Agreement request to the original creditors concerned. this will cost £1.00 for each request.

 

There is a template letter here at post #8 - The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

Use a postal order to pay, do not sign the letters and send by Royal Mail Recorded Signed For Delivery. They have 12 + 2 calendar days to respond form when they receive your letter.

 

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Pebbles10

Pebbles10

Posted
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Posted

Hello again and thanks,

 

The computer keeps crashing so fingers crossed this time.

 

The 2 credit card debts are RBS and Egg. The CCJ & charging order are not connected to them.

 

The RBS card is the one which is going to court at the moment, I did the CCA letter quite a while back and got an application form, no terms but the form allowed you to choose to transfer balances to it, does that make sense? So it shows 2 amounts for balance transfers.

 

The egg card is quite an old one from 2000, I did the CCA letter and got an agreement that is the same as all of them from that time. I've read that very long thread about egg agreements but it has left me a bit muddled, but for now at least their is no court claim on it. I think there will be soon as the debt collectors are being very aggresive about it, but at the moment I'm managing to hold them at arms length.

 

There is equity in the house even with the remaining mortgage and charging order, we've lived here for 18 years and the mortgage is not in arrears.

 

I don't think I explained myself very well about the voluntary charge. I don't want to offer one to the debt collectors. I want to know if I can have one made in favour of my daughter, to at least secure for her what she has paid out on the house. The deeds and the mortgage are in my name only.

 

I'm hoping to reduce the amount owed on the ccj/charging order as I know that the PPI was missold. I've done a SAR but am still waiting for all the paperwork to come, they just sent a copy agreement and statements, so I asked for the rest as there must be more as it went to court, but thats work in progress.

 

I hope I've been a bit clearer this time. Thank you for your time.

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themagician

themagician

Posted
Posted
Hello again and thanks,

 

The computer keeps crashing so fingers crossed this time.

 

The 2 credit card debts are RBS and Egg. The CCJ & charging order are not connected to them.

 

The RBS card is the one which is going to court at the moment, I did the CCA letter quite a while back and got an application form, no terms but the form allowed you to choose to transfer balances to it, does that make sense? So it shows 2 amounts for balance transfers.

 

The egg card is quite an old one from 2000, I did the CCA letter and got an agreement that is the same as all of them from that time. I've read that very long thread about egg agreements but it has left me a bit muddled, but for now at least their is no court claim on it. I think there will be soon as the debt collectors are being very aggresive about it, but at the moment I'm managing to hold them at arms length.

 

There is equity in the house even with the remaining mortgage and charging order, we've lived here for 18 years and the mortgage is not in arrears.

 

I don't think I explained myself very well about the voluntary charge. I don't want to offer one to the debt collectors. I want to know if I can have one made in favour of my daughter, to at least secure for her what she has paid out on the house. The deeds and the mortgage are in my name only.

 

I'm hoping to reduce the amount owed on the ccj/charging order as I know that the PPI was missold. I've done a SAR but am still waiting for all the paperwork to come, they just sent a copy agreement and statements, so I asked for the rest as there must be more as it went to court, but thats work in progress.

 

I hope I've been a bit clearer this time. Thank you for your time.

hi, have you had the cca sent to you looked at by another cagger to make sure its enforceable or not,or is it just your oppinion that it is ???

theres some very exsperienced people on caggers with knowledge of cca,s

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Pebbles10

Pebbles10

Posted
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Hello and thanks, I haven't had the cca looked at, but from what I've read on some threads the RBS cca probably isn't enforcable, it says on it that its an application form and there aren't any terms for credit limit, repayments, or interest rate. Its not a very good copy, in the blurry small print it say t&c overleaf but there isn't an overleaf. The debt collector says its all they need and have started proceedings.

 

Thank you again.

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debt4get

debt4get

Posted
Posted

dont think you can put a charging order in respect of your daughter..the only way to secure her money to the property is to put the deeds in her name or joint names, however, that is going to be difficult if there is already a charging order in place

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debt4get

debt4get

Posted
Posted

also remember a dca can only get a charging order, after getting a ccj and you defaulting on a ccj.. in other words if you were ordered by the court to pay a pound a month and you never defaulted on that then they would NEVER be able to get a charging order.. if you are unemployed then the chances are this is the amount a judge would order you to pay on your income..so it actually would not be in a dca's interest to take you anywhere near a court, dca's only go for easy money.. they are parasites of the highest order

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Pebbles10

Pebbles10

Posted
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Hello, Yes I've received the court papers from Northampton, i did the acknowledgment of service and put in an embarrased defence that I borrowed from someones thread. But I got a letter saying theyre going to carry on the claim and have it transferred to a local court. Also said they will ask for forthwith judgement.

 

So you don't think its a possibility of having a voluntary charge in favour of my daughter?

 

Thanks again.

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debt4get

debt4get

Posted
Posted

yep they would say they are going to carry on, its transferred to your local court because you are defending, also have you sent them your cpr request, this will show you all the paperwork they are going to rely on in court, including the cca, and no i dont believe it is possible to get a charge in favour of your daughter, however, i am not a lawyer so you would need proper legal advice on this point

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