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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Unenforceable Credit Agreements


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When Cabot wrote to me about a debt that they claimed to have purchased, I replied that " the information that I have suggests that I do not have this liability"

 

In response to that, they informed me that they were going to obtain a copy of my credit agreement from the original lender. I didn't actually ask them to do that.

 

However, over 30 days have now elapsed without any sign of a credit agreement. Cabot have been writing more than once saying that they have asked for the CA from the original lender as a matter of urgency but are still waiting.

 

Cabot are being very polite and apologetic about the delay but the point is :

 

I did not specifically asked for the CA, mention the relevant clauses of the CCA 1974 referring to their obligations to provide me with the CA in my letter to them or send the obligatory £1.

 

If I haven't done the three things mentioned above, can they claim that I did not comply with the format normally required for a request of a CA and the request is therefore invalid ?

They haven't actually said so. Would it be advisable to start the request for a CA but, this time, mention the relevant sections of the CCA 1974 ( 78, I believe ) and send in the £1 ?

But by doing so, would that take me back to the start of the request process and give them 12 days to respond although the fact is that they haven't been able to provide a copy of the CA for the past 30 days ?

Can I now state that the CA is unenforceable as Cabot have not produced a copy of the CA, although I did not actually ask for one, 30 days after they decided to seek a copy of the CA from the original lender ?

They have told me that they will continue to seek the copy from the lender. They have suspended the account.

They have said that as soon as they get the copy, they will re-start their collection activities.

Should I write to Trading Standards ? If so, why ?

Could I now ask Cabot to close the account as further attempts to ask for payments from me would be unlawful ?

If they produce the CA, are they able to continue asking for payments ?

Another thing is : what should I look for in a credit agreement that would make it unenforceable ?

Precise advice on what makes an agreement invalid or unenforceable ( if there is a difference ) would be most welcome.

Trigger.

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i'd wait and see what happens........

 

could just be a phishing letter.

 

tell us about the debt

 

p.s. next time, don't copy and paste from a word doc you have typed??

 

if you must prepare your post before hand

 

use notepad.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx10uk

 

Thanks for reply.

 

Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by phishing ?

 

As for the debt, it is a credit card advance that dates back to sometime between 2000 and 2002. I think it was started to get interest-free funding to clear other high-interest account(s)

 

Cabot claims to own the debt now . I am not sure whether they purchased the debt or it was assigned (I assume there is a difference between the two. If so, could someone explain, please ?).

 

The worrying thing is that Cabot has been adding interest all along. What was a balance of just under £2K has now turned into over £3,500.

 

Are DCAs allowed to charge interest to a debt that they have purchased or has been assigned to them ?

 

Whether they are or are not at all, should this freedom to charge interest not be prescribed in the original credit agreement ?

 

If it isn't, could I challenge this interest application ?

 

Moving onto the CA, an old copy that I have ( I don't remember signing anything else ) says at the top that it is an application form.

 

I have read about that application forms are just that. They cannot be credit agreements. True ? Am a bit confused here.

 

The application form that I have does have a small box on the same page that says : "This is a credit agreement registered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be bound by its terms." I have signed in that box.

 

I hope that I have given enough information on the debt to receive advice, particularly from any members who are well versed in law.

 

Regards

 

Trigger1

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if you have not made any financial transactions in the last six years then it is statute barred anyhow

 

totally ignore them, they can do nothing to you. fullstop!

 

phishing [i guessed right!] means just what you are going through now.

 

these leechers buy up lists of debts for about 5-10p in the £ and fire off 'phishing letters' to see if anyone will bite. then demand ALL the outstanding money out of people they have no legal right to do so from, but that ofcourse do not know their legal rights as a consumer.

 

its a VERY profitable market.......[causing problems] people

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Dx100uk

 

Again, thanks for your reply.

 

I thought that stature barred can only come into play when there has been no correspondence, not payment to the creditor, between claimant and debtor. I may be wrong, of course.

 

If that is the case, then statute barred cannot apply here, can it, as Cabot has been writing annually to the date to remind me of the liabililty.

 

It statute barred confines a debt to oblivion because of the non existence of financial transactions which I take to mean payments to the creditor or DCA, then I shall have to wait till 2010.

 

I have had no feedback on the right of a DCA to apply interest charges to an account that they have bought or taken an assignment on.

 

I appreciate your comments which I take to be firm advice on my legal position unless I hear otherwise from you or anyone else who may wish to contribute.

 

Trigger1

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I thought that stature barred can only come into play when there has been no correspondence, not payment to the creditor, between claimant and debtor. I may be wrong, of course.

 

If that is the case, then statute barred cannot apply here, can it, as Cabot has been writing annually to the date to remind me of the liabililty.

 

 

 

*For clarification purposes, acknowledgement is either acknowledgement made in writing or a payment received against the debt.(by you) Once acknowledgement is received, this re-sets the limitation period.*

 

Thats the way I see it, you have to acknowledge the debt, for the clock to re-start.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

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Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

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Can anyone enlighten me on the right of DCAs to charge interest on an account after it has been assigned to them or they have purchased it, please ?

 

Also, does a debtor have a better footing with an assigned or purchased debt ?

 

I have never seen an assignment contract between original lender and assignee. Has anyone got a copy that could be viewed ?

 

Also, as a CA needs to have certain ingredients prescribed by the CCA 1974 to be valid, what should an assignement contain without which it could not be deemed to be legitimate ?

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There are some notable exceptions to the 6yr stat barred rule which may be worth mentioning.

 

If you owned your house and it was repossessed or sold and there was an oustanding debt to the lender, well they can pursue you for 12 years for

the money..

 

HMRC of course, there are no limitations where they're concerned and I'm sure that the DWP can collect on money you've been overpaid...as in they've overpaid you on a benefit, they've called in the debt and you've signed off and moved on..I'm sure that if you were to sign on say 10 years later and they had a record of the overpayment then they are still able to deduct money from your benefit payments and they don't have to go to court to be able to do so. I may be wrong on the latter but it used to be the case...

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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the terms of a CCA are between the OC and you and are not typically transfered to a dca that 'buys' the debt.

if the dca is just collecting 'they' cannot add any charges nor add interest

a notice of assignment must be issued if this were the case.

 

i wouldn't be too worried

 

its just a phishing letter.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Can anyone enlighten me on the right of DCAs to charge interest on an account after it has been assigned to them or they have purchased it, please ?

 

Also, does a debtor have a better footing with an assigned or purchased debt ?

 

I have never seen an assignment contract between original lender and assignee. Has anyone got a copy that could be viewed ?

 

Also, as a CA needs to have certain ingredients prescribed by the CCA 1974 to be valid, what should an assignement contain without which it could not be deemed to be legitimate ?

 

I'm sure that different lenders/creditors have their own assignment notices, there isn't a template that they all use, but I have seen some posted around on the forum that have been less than clever...do an advanced search for 'assignment'.

 

You might want to check the original terms and conditions of the original agreement in regards to if they can pass (by way of a sale/assignment) a debt on to a third party and what charges they can apply...if it doesn't say that they can/may sell the debt on etc...then they can't sell it on (in theory) or at least the buyer cannot expect the same rights as what the original creditor had......

 

Essentially what I'm trying to say and making a pigs ear of it...if the terms and conditions of the original creditor/lender mentions charges/interest and they then go on to sell/assign full title of the debt and providing the sale documentation has been correctly executed then in my opinion the 'buyer' has pretty much the same rights as the original creditor....

 

Then again you are talking about Cabot here and from what I've been reading of late where their tactics are concerned it appears in my opinion that they pretty much add/subtract what they want when trying to collect from a debtor....

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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Hi dx100uk

 

Cabot have actually applied interest ever since they claimed to have been in ownership of the liability as the sum they claim I owe is now double since the debt was with the original creditor.

 

Are they therefore acting in contravention of the CCA 1974 ?

 

If so, how can I raise ( should I ? )this matter with them ?

 

I haven't made a payment to them or the creditor since 2003 but have been corresponding with them perhaps implying liability for the debt.

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what type of corres?

 

if its by phone then no dice.

 

in all honesty, having been on here many years now, if it were me - i'd forget all about it and ignore everything they do from now on, they have had far too much of your time.

 

ignore them.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Dx100uk

 

Thanks for your words of support.

 

What I cannot ( although perhaps I should ) get out of my mind is that this is a increasing debt in the eyes of Cabot.

 

What if they succeed in enforcing the debt. I dread to think what the eventual sum owed will be with compounding interest.

 

Trigger1

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You are able to reclaim all unfair charges & any PPI + interest at 8% even if the debt is Statute Barred.

 

damn, beat me:D

 

 

how about telling us what the debt history is? etc etc

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx100uk

 

If you last entry is for me, is it the increasing debt that you are referring to and I did not give clear explanations about ?

 

Cabot are adding interest to the liability that they 'purchased' or was assigned to them ( it may be the former ) and have been doing so ever since they purchased the debt.

 

Therefore, the debt is increasing all the time.

 

If, as you suggest, I ignore them, the balance will grow to a phenomenal amount with compound interest.

 

And if they eventually make a successful claim for the debt, I'll have to pay a very substantial amount to them for a liability that started as a couple of grand in 2000.

 

I hope that I've made sense this time.

 

I thank all the contributors to this thread.

 

Trigger1

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Hi dx100uk

 

Cabot have actually applied interest ever since they claimed to have been in ownership of the liability as the sum they claim I owe is now double since the debt was with the original creditor.

 

Are they therefore acting in contravention of the CCA 1974 ?

 

If so, how can I raise ( should I ? )this matter with them ?

 

I haven't made a payment to them or the creditor since 2003 but have been corresponding with them perhaps implying liability for the debt.

 

I have a debt with cabot as the collector, initially just under 5k and now at 9.2k according to my credit file even though I've never missed a payment with them. They should send a statement each year but have never done so, when I used to speak to them on the phone the balance was always much less than what my credit file says it is and I am not aware of any assignment via the original lender. I do have letters from Cabot saying that the interest is frozen whilst payments are maintained (which they have been) all of which is good for me when I do decide to round on them...which is imminent...just awaiting some further info first...

 

It is my contention that Cabot add money to their debts but not always to the debtor, but more possibly to make their porfolio look healthy..either so they can lend money for more debt purchases or to make themselves look good for possible sale or whatever (although I've seen something recent on here I think that shows them having lost a few million last financial year) but whatever it is they've increased my alleged indebtness by almost 100% in less than 4 years...

 

I'll be stopping paying them very shortly ...

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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Hi dx100uk

 

 

 

And if they eventually make a successful claim for the debt, I'll have to pay a very substantial amount to them for a liability that started as a couple of grand in 2000.

 

 

I think what you should do is SARS them, usually it's best to SARS the original creditor but in the case of Cabot and their ridiculous amounts of interest applied it would be with you making the SARS....it may/probably would turn something up to your advantage....just make the standard Sars request and nothing more....and most certainly don't tell them as to why you want it...just that you do.

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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lets not get too ahead of ourselves here.

 

its statute barred

 

ignore them totally

 

you need to also remember they are a DCA

 

they have NO LEGAL POWERS

 

least of all

 

its down to THEM to prove its not statute barred

NOt for you to prove it IS.

 

as for phoning these leechers, some need their head testing

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx100uk

 

If you last entry is for me, is it the increasing debt that you are referring to and I did not give clear explanations about ?

 

Cabot are adding interest to the liability that they 'purchased' or was assigned to them ( it may be the former ) and have been doing so ever since they purchased the debt.

 

Therefore, the debt is increasing all the time.

 

If, as you suggest, I ignore them, the balance will grow to a phenomenal amount with compound interest.

 

And if they eventually make a successful claim for the debt, I'll have to pay a very substantial amount to them for a liability that started as a couple of grand in 2000.

 

I hope that I've made sense this time.

 

I thank all the contributors to this thread.

 

Trigger1

 

Hi trigg

I think DX was asking about history of the debt with a view to compiling a case of PPI and charges reclaim, which obviously means they will be owing you money. You have received good advice of serious caggers here and having read the thread I would say you should be relaxed about it. If you think you may have a right to reclaim the charges and PPI why don't you have alook at that

Exasp

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lets not get too ahead of ourselves here.

 

its statute barred

 

ignore them totally

 

 

 

dx

 

I haven't read the Author as saying it's stat barred ? in post 5 he states

 

It statute barred confines a debt to oblivion because of the non existence of financial transactions which I take to mean payments to the creditor or DCA, then I shall have to wait till 2010.

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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yep but by the time leechers respond to the op's CCA request [assuming we recommend doing that] i bet it will be very close - he could be in Scotland though!!

 

the other thing to bear-in-mind here is they have got to prove its not SB, not he has.

 

i think this is what it is all about, its a debt that is very close [or they think it is already] SB'ed & thats why they are trying one last time. very typical tactics.

 

so what is the OP using as his 6yrs benchmark & who did he pay 5 ish years ago.

 

this is why i was asking about the debts history, all we know is it is now with a dca, and it was

 

"a credit card advance that dates back to sometime between 2000 and 2002. I think it was started to get interest-free funding to clear other high-interest account(s)"

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

eitherway, they are on a hiding to nothing.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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