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    • Make sure the WS is sent 14 days before the hearing. You can e-mail the court theirs.  In the subject line put the case number, the names of the parties and "Witness Statement".  Obviously click on "Return Receipt". Send Simple Simon his by 2nd class post - all VCS are worth - and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.
    • The outlet is in Camden Town and was set up in 2006, a year after my husband established the business, in addition to selling at exhibitions, online, shows, events, and having licensing agreements in some places overseas.  The only thing I have stopped doing since I got ill is the physical stuff, which I’m working on. The business has not changed name or anything like that either. I’m not sure where the original contract with Camden is but the management must still have it. My husband died in Jan 2017, and until Sept 2018, I would take the stock in every week; after that I was sending it in by post. I went in now and then when possible to re-do the display but that was about it. No one had access to any files until 2020. Moved house in 2020 thought would have to pull it all, Covid had just hit as well. The person in question said he would be interested in taking over and paying the rent etc. so I said I would let him sell the pictures for nothing as long as he would ‘keep it warm’ for me.  Obviously, everywhere was closed for lockdown. During this time I was working out how to go forward.  In May 2022 I told him I couldn’t  give anything away for free anymore, and put in place the wholesale agreement.  I’ve disregarded any discrepancies from before this date. I sent over the jpgs electronically, so I’ve still got them too. He hasn’t got any original files like .psds negatives or memory cards etc, I’ve got proof of all ownership/copyright. A co-op is whereby a small number of neighbours work on a rotational basis so they each of them can have time off, that way everyone doesn’t need to be there at the same time, he had never been an employee of mine.  The only reason I allowed him to have the files in the first place as I didn’t want to lose that side of the business.  It’s a good, constant source of income. However, the rent was becoming crippling as I believed there was something fishy going on well before this as there’s so much cash dealt with there, and I couldn’t go in regularly in person, and I’m sure sales weren’t being recorded properly and cash was being pocketed. My husband was too busy to be doing any stock control properly, he wasn't really into paperwork, and the guy who was ‘helping’ me after my husband's death, was making things very difficult for me to implement a solid stock control system by refusing to co-operate on simple things like using email etc. which I thought was a smokescreen, so I severed ties with him just before I made the agreement in question. I sent about 100 images, jpg files, sent via We Transfer. I’ve got the confirmation of which files were sent with dates. I will have to go through closed bank accounts and previous tax returns to get a proper estimate.   Before I made this agreement, I was selling retail there, this is a wholesale agreement so I’ll have to do some calculations but it is definitely in the thousands.  I haven’t got his his home address, and I don't think he's got any sizeable assets. I’m also worried that he might send the files overseas and start selling them there. I know he’s not stupid enough to sell them online. He knows for sure how serious this is, but he’s been chancing it and thinks I’m stupid, if not soft and stupid. I don’t know if this would work but I am thinking that when he does contact me, I tell him we need to talk, tell him I know what he’s been up to, and strongly urge him not to order any more prints from wherever he is having them printed because it will make things much worse for him if he does. Then when I do tell him about the gravity of the situation, maybe a few days later, I think it will scare him into complying because the consequences definitely trump the few quid he thinks he is saving by getting his own printing done. Tell him an amount that I want back for lost revenue, and make it clear that if he doesn’t destroy the files and if I find out he is still doing it at any point down the line, I will seek prosecution for copyright infringement and fraud, which I will. I don’t know how I can enforce any of this without involving the courts though. I will be able to tell, though, and he will know this. And the only reason I am doing this now rather than before, is that I couldn’t prove anything until now.  It was screamingly obvious from the beginning though, as he wasn’t ordering enough from me to pay the rent, let alone make a profit. If I decided to come down like him lie a ton of bricks straight away, how would I go about a cease and desist, would I have to get one from the court? And what do I do about the stock he currently holds? It has also occurred to me that he might file for bankruptcy or similar if things get heavy, where would that leave me? I could put the feelers out for a brand-new person to take it on, obviously without giving them access to files, that is an option. But that comes with its own set of issues. Also, would there be any implications for me, if I kept quiet for now? Let him order again from me as if nothing has happened, as it will be any day and I want to get all my ducks in a row first ideally….   Thanks again
    • I’ve also just realised their online website they’ve got 12 photographs of my vehicle, including close ups of the inside?? Not sure why that’s relevant.  The time stamp on the first photo is 13:57, the PCN incident time is 14:12. 
    • I’m tempted to send a letter to the company outlining the reasons why I think their PCN is illegitimate. I guess will technically be an appeal.  Their documentation states they won’t discuss over phone, I also don’t want them to have my email address.    re signage on entrance, having looked at land registry, the whole road is private, and when you turn into the road off the highway, there is a sign on the lamppost about 20m in, again not noticeable and on the other side of the road.  I feel like I am in a difficult position with this, I understand that I may have a good chance of not having to pay, but at the same token the stress this is already causing me makes me feel like it’s not worth the £60!
    • Well done with the photo. Of course the signage is insufficient.  PPM are not interested in competent management of a car park, they are interested in catching drivers out so they can issue their PCNs. For a start, according to their trade associations' Codes of Practice, they are supposed to have signage at the entrance. Any e-mail reply from the company and whether they will/won't/can/can't get the invoice cancelled?    
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

MandM vs Egg Loan ***Won with Strike Out***


MandM
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Is this DN worth arguing???  

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  1. 1. Is this DN worth arguing???

    • Yes, argue all the way!!!
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    • No, they've got you beat.
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morning MandM

I too have an Egg agreement and they supplied a set of terms and conditions which didn't apply to the 2 page signed agreement (clause references didn't match etc)

 

I highlighted this in my defence and their response completely ignored the point I made about terms and conditions not consistent with the agreement. They later sent some more documentation through and included in the package a further copy of the terms and guess what - these were different and appear to be the relevant ones that would have been in force at the time (albeit they had someone else's name and agreement number on)

 

I was cross that they didn't even highlight the fact that they had sent a different set so highlighted it to the Judge and asked their barrister which set they actually wanted to rely on in their case as they had now presented two sets. I also made the point about them not pointing out that this was different documentation. The judge wasn't impressed but their barrister put it down to an administrative error and said that he hadn't seen the covering letter etc etc.

 

The terms and conditions don't have any information about cancellation rights though. I did say in my defence that even if they did, they should have been in the agreement that was signed and not hidden in multiple supplementary pages of 'things you should know'.

 

good luck

S

 

Thanks Sunshine54.

 

At least i'll be ready for that one now.

They later sent some more documentation through and included in the package a further copy of the terms
. When did they send them out of interest? I assume that it was after you'd submitted your defence but not long before your date in court! If so, would that not be grounds enough in itself to be able to ask the court for the opportunity to amend the defence! Got me thinking now lol.

Thank you for the heads up - will have a look at yours if it's on a thread.

 

M

 

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Hi

 

my case has been going on since January! The first set of documentation was received by me in August despite being requested in early February. Cheeky devils actually said that I'd qlready got the info via a Data Protection request so I suggested that if they wished to use that to support their claim then they should have advised me of that fact.

The August copy had naff terms and conditions and my first amended defence pointed this out. I had been consistently chasing more information about telephone tapes/transcripts which they had avoided sending for months but they did eventually send through one transcript and a further copy of the terms and conditions at the end of October. These are the ones that I queried in my next hearing as detailed in my earlier post here.

 

I got the Judge to order them to provide a statement from a senior person that these are indeed the correct terms that would have been in place at the time my agreement was taken out. He also ordered them to provide financial information about how the money from this disputed loan was dispersed, and how the balance of the loan that it cleared was calculated.

 

I'm then able to send in yet another amended defence but did agree that this time it would be fully particularised.

 

I do have a long thread about my case but must confess that I got a bit worried a few weeks ago that I would be recognised and went in and deleted lots of my posts from it -

 

I'm quite happy to share whatever info I can with you though.

 

My next hearing is scheduled for the new year and then I expect a date in the spring for the hearing.

best regards

S

Edited by Sunshine54
typo

=================================================================

remember

 

the Sun is always shining, it's just that you can't see it sometimes

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Thanks SH.

 

Must admit, the thought crossed my mind once or twice to delete stuff off of here too. But on reflection the best bit of info I have is their useless DN and as they've inadvertantly proved that this is the one that was sent i'm hoping i've got them by the short and curly's. I found out about the "cancelation rights" thingy too late, defence had already gone in so will need to draw the argument out of them. BUT if they do issue some new/revised T&Cs and I do get the opportunity to amend (bearing in mind i've picked some holes in their T&Cs with my defence) they'd be opening another door for me :).

 

I am subbed to your thread but see you've not posted in a while. Any further developments (PM if you don't want to put it up)

 

M

 

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Hi again M

 

I'll go and update my thread. In summary I'm awaiting the info that they have to provide within the next week and then I have to submit my defence around Christmas time. I'll be revising my counterclaim too and will definitely be posting on my thread for comment and feedback.

 

You can ask for to be allowed time to review their revised terms and conditions (if that's what they do and I guess they must otherwise they haven't got any Terms that actually support their case) and submit an amended defence.

regards

S

=================================================================

remember

 

the Sun is always shining, it's just that you can't see it sometimes

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Hi again M

 

I'll go and update my thread. In summary I'm awaiting the info that they have to provide within the next week and then I have to submit my defence around Christmas time. I'll be revising my counterclaim too and will definitely be posting on my thread for comment and feedback.

 

You can ask for to be allowed time to review their revised terms and conditions (if that's what they do and I guess they must otherwise they haven't got any Terms that actually support their case) and submit an amended defence.

regards

S

 

Thanks for the info S.

 

Best of luck with yours.

 

M

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all.

 

Have had some paperwork from the court. Into new ground now so I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this or what I'm supposed to send back to whom. Advice and help needed with what to do next

 

Thanks

 

M

 

CourtNov1.jpg

CourtNov2.jpg

CourtNov3.jpg

 

Also, the bit about trying to agree directions - does this mean I have to talk to the Sols???

Any help and advice appreciated

 

M

 

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M&M, sorry I can't help with the above, but try getting one of the site team to help by clicking the red triangle if someone doesn't come along soon. Sure there will be someone who can offer some advice on this.

 

regards, Magda

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Hi all.

 

Have had some paperwork from the court. Into new ground now so I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this or what I'm supposed to send back to whom. Advice and help needed with what to do next (all above).

 

Also, the bit about trying to agree directions - does this mean I have to talk to the Sols???

Any help and advice appreciated

 

M

 

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This is definitely not my thing as it involves English legal procedure and what little i do know about procedure is not in England.

That said, it looks to me as if the Court is trying to get the parties to the dispute (ie you and Egg) to make a clear statement about what it is that divides you - what are the disagreements (this is para 1), so I would be inclined to work my way back through this thread with the aim of identifying all the things that you reckon are (or could be said to be) wrong with Egg's position. You wont reach a consensus on this with them - if you could there would be no need to go to court. What the court is looking for is as clear a statement about the disagreements.

On the basis that there is no agreement about what the divisions are (they might argue about whether or not there is a disagreement on a particular topic) then each side needs to make proposals about the process to be followed for the court to resolve these (eg fast track or not), when the parties might be ready to go to court, and an estimate of how long the case might take.

I dont know if that helps (much of it is pretty obvious), but its about as far as i could take it, as I am absolutely certain that

 

  1. there will be a lot of places that you could go seriously wrong with what you might submit
  2. on the other hand, by submitting a carefully crafted submission to the Court, you could do yourself a good deal of good (I have a hypothesis that the likes of Egg are less likely to take on someone who seems to know what they are on about as this maximises the chance of them losing in court and creating a precedent - from their pov not a good idea)

For these two reasons you REALLY do need someone - probably from the site team - to come along and give you the benefit of their experience and detailed advice.

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Hi SFU. Hope you're well

 

 

  1. there will be a lot of places that you could go seriously wrong with what you might submit
  2. on the other hand, by submitting a carefully crafted submission to the Court, you could do yourself a good deal of good (I have a hypothesis that the likes of Egg are less likely to take on someone who seems to know what they are on about as this maximises the chance of them losing in court and creating a precedent - from their pov not a good idea)

For these two reasons you REALLY do need someone - probably from the site team - to come along and give you the benefit of their experience and detailed advice.

These are pretty much my thoughts also. If anyone from the Site Team could give a view i'd very much appreciate the help.

 

Thanks

 

MandM

 

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I think if you click the red triangle, someone from the site team will come along and have a look. Now whether that's the right someone .......?

Two things you might do to be going on with

 

  1. have a trawl through the site - search engine might be helpful here - to see who has experience with this procedure. Whether or not its Egg doesnt matter - what matters is the procudure and having experience of how it goes
  2. as I suggested work through your own thread here and write down the areas of agreement with Egg (that wont take you long ;)) and the areas of disagreement. Just put them in a list just now. Putting them into a coherent order is the next stage, but you need to know what they are first of all. Indeed once you know that you will be better able to make use of whatever support is available to you.

best of luck with seeing them off :)

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I think if you click the red triangle, someone from the site team will come along and have a look. Now whether that's the right someone .......?

Two things you might do to be going on with

 

  1. have a trawl through the site - search engine might be helpful here - to see who has experience with this procedure. Whether or not its Egg doesnt matter - what matters is the procudure and having experience of how it goes
  2. as I suggested work through your own thread here and write down the areas of agreement with Egg (that wont take you long ;)) and the areas of disagreement. Just put them in a list just now. Putting them into a coherent order is the next stage, but you need to know what they are first of all. Indeed once you know that you will be better able to make use of whatever support is available to you.

best of luck with seeing them off :)

 

Thanks SFU,

 

All that I can find on the form N24 seems to be from the claimants point of view relating to bank charges. I'll keep looking though and see what turns up.

 

M

 

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Hi SFU. Hope you're well

 

 

 

These are pretty much my thoughts also. If anyone from the Site Team could give a view i'd very much appreciate the help.

 

Thanks

 

MandM

 

Bump ;)

 

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Hi all.

 

Have had some paperwork from the court. Into new ground now so I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this or what I'm supposed to send back to whom. Advice and help needed with what to do next (all above).

 

Also, the bit about trying to agree directions - does this mean I have to talk to the Sols???

Any help and advice appreciated

 

M

 

Bump ;)

 

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Quite straight forward MandM

 

You just need to submit your draft Directions,not having read your thread have you done your AQ yet and if so did you not submit any directions with said AQ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Quite straight forward MandM

 

You just need to submit your draft Directions,not having read your thread have you done your AQ yet and if so did you not submit any directions with said AQ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy. Yes and Yes! So am I just adjusting them to suit the current situation and re-submitting?

 

Will reply in full when I get home this evening (just sneaking on as i'm at work)

 

Thanks for popping in,

 

M

Edited by MandM

 

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Hi Andy,

 

AQs were submitted early October

 

Draft order for directions was attached also.

 

It asked (mine) that the claimant file and serve; (i've summarised :))

 

1) Copies of the CCA as referred to in the POC etc

 

2) Copy of the DN compliant with blah blah....which the claimant seeks to rely upon

 

3) Copies of all statements for the duration of the agreement

 

4) Copies of any other documents to be relied upon

 

Then went on to say that if they fail they should be struck out and that i'd go on to file an amended defence if they sent them

 

THEIR draft directions asked

 

1) that the defence be struck out for failing to disclose any triable issues,

 

2) The defendant files and serves a fully pleaded defence in 14 days

 

3) allocated to fasr track

 

4) CMC 28 days after 2 (30 minutes)

 

5) costs

 

They also attached a copy of the agreement, 12 pages of terms and conditions that didn't relate to the agreement in many places, a template of a DN (I have the original :)) with a PC screenshot 'proving' that it was sent, and a reconstructed single page statement confirming the figure on their POC (basically an Excel spreadsheet).

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

2 weeks later, N24 from the court giving them a month to file and serve a) copy of the agreement relied upon and b) a full statement showing how the sum claimed is arrived at.

------------------------------------------------------

 

Early November I recieved their WS.

 

It went to great lengths to explain the statement, the reason it appears is that there seems to be a random figure on the end of it called 'Interest Accrued@5/10/09. Problem is (for them) their computer has continued to issue me with statements throughout the year (even in November) and the interest shown on these differs greatly from the figure shown on the reconstructed statement.

 

They also attached another copy of the agreement and T & Cs sent with the AQ!

 

I then filed my defence which, in summary, was as follows;

 

1) The DN - this (my original) did not contain the prescribed terms - not just a little thing - they forgot to print on it that it was 'Served under section 87(i) of the CCA 1974' (I did check - it is supposed to be on there :D). I went quite strong on this - why they cannot reissue, the fact they terminated etc etc.

 

2) I raised a whole pile of queries regarding the 'sum' and attached various statements etc that showed their figure to be incorrect, and

 

3) I picked lots of holes in the agreement, terms and conditions and showed that the relationshio between the 2 was flawed quite clearly in 3 instances.

---------------------------------------------

 

So, in summary, we still haven't actually agreed anything! They still haven't (technically) produced the docs asked for in my AQ Draft Directions.

 

Then the letter above appeared from the court. That's where i'm at in summary - any thoughts?

 

M

 

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Hi MandM

 

If you give me chance to read your thread and get up to speed and then I will give you some direction.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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Hi MandM

 

If you give me chance to read your thread and get up to speed and then I will give you some direction.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andyorch,

 

Got time - it says within 14 days of service. Front sheet dated 3rd Dec and arrived Friday the 4th

 

M

Edited by MandM
date was wrong. fat fingers again!!

 

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Hi MandM

 

If you give me chance to read your thread and get up to speed and then I will give you some direction.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy O,

 

Have you had a peek yet? Would be interested to get your take on this.

 

M

 

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Hi M

 

Apologies for not getting back to you will run through today and post later had a lot on this week.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Hi M

 

Apologies for not getting back to you will run through today and post later had a lot on this week.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, Don't panic if you can't manage today, I do appreciate your efforts. Just making sure I didn't drop off your radar lol!!!

 

M

 

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