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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Hounded after 12 Years


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Hi all,

 

I would be ever so grateful if anyone could advise me.

 

To cut a long story short, my ex husband contacted me and stated that a firm of solicitors had been contacting him about a repossession debt. This refers to our previous marital home that was respossessed 12 years ago.

 

He says that he has been contacted by them on and off for a number of years, however has never told me about this and is suddenly demanding half of the £14,000 allegedly owed :shock:! He showed me a letter from the solicitors but it only mentions his name and address and does not refer to me or the repossessed house.

 

Does this sound right? It seems a bit out of the blue to me?

 

Any advice gratefully received. :confused:

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Thank you for your prompt reply.

 

The last time a payment was made was around May 1997. I haven't had any contact with the mortgage company or anyone else since.

 

I know my ex husband has offered £1,000 (in April 2009) to settle but that has been declined. He told me about this on Saturday (26 Sept 09).

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like i said

 

mortage debt is 12 years

 

not sure if the acknowledgement restarted the limitations act

 

the norm for say credit accounts is six years

 

 

like i said

 

ime unsure on the linitations with mortage debt

 

you may need to check back after people get in from work

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The letter posted by Postggj is incorrect; ensure you send this one instead:

 

(Your home address)

 

Date:

 

To:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account No:

 

You have contact me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by me/us.

 

I/we would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 20[1] "no action shall be brought to recover (a) any principle sum of money secured by a mortgage or other charge on the property (whether real or personal)…after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the right to receive the money accrued".

 

As the last correspondence/payment or acknowledgement of this debt was made over 12 years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time I/we suggest that you are no longer able to take any action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

 

I/we would further point out that the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) has agreed that with effect from 11 February 2000, anyone whose property was repossessed and sold and has not been contacted by their lender within six years of the date of sale, will not be asked to pay the shortfall. Whether or not you are a member of the CML, I/we consider this policy to be an indication of good practice and urge its adoption.

 

I/we would also point out that from 31 October 2004 The Financial Services Authority (FSA) has issued 'The Mortgage: Conduct of Business Rules' which say that if a lender decides to recover a mortgage shortfall debt they must make sure the borrower is informed of this within six years of the date of the sale.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that the matter is now closed.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(Your signature)

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Acknowledgement in writing by a person liable would only reset the limitation period for that person. So if your ex-partner has admited the debt within 12 years in WRITING the 12 year period would re-set to zero for THEM only.

 

If there was a payment made within the 12 years it would re-set the 12 year period for both of you.

 

From the information given I'm convinced that the debt is statute barred as far as you're concerned.

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The best thing to do is to only get involved with this when people start chasing YOU. There really is no point in bringing your whereabouts to the attention of anyone.

 

The creditor has the legal right to chase either party for the full amount or both. It seems that they have decided to chase your ex. If people wish to try and locate you it's pretty easy to do via various government databases etc.

 

If you're not being chased don't get involved.

 

Well that is my two cents anyway :0

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Totally agree. Would copy the letter above and save for a rainy day. Your ex is the one that has to deal with it at present, best left that way;) don't you think!!

Regards

 

LilyLou

 

 

 

 

 

If I have been helpful please tip my scales

 

Any advice/comments I give are based solely on personal experience, if in doubt please consult an expert.

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Debt following mortgage possession

 

terracehouses.jpgHere is some information on what happens after a property has been taken into possession. If you are worried about losing your home see our consumer guide: Help if you are worried about your mortgage.

 

What happens to your mortgage debt after your home is repossessed?

 

After your lender takes your property into possession they have a legal duty to sell the property for the best price that can reasonably be obtained. The property will generally go on the market as soon as possible and your lender will get independent, expert advice on the price it should be sold for and the best method of sale.

If the sale of the property results in a surplus after all the money owed to the lender and any other secured lender has been repaid, then this surplus is returned you. Your lender should notify you of the surplus but if you cannot be contacted, the money will either be held by the court or your lender until you can be contacted.

But if the sale proceeds are not enough to pay off the money you owe to the lender, then there is a "shortfall debt" which you still owe your lender after possession.

Interest will usually continue to be charged on your mortgage loan until the property is sold and any shortfall is repaid. There will also be other costs charged to your mortgage account, including estate agents' costs in selling the property and legal costs.

What will the lender do if there is a shortfall debt?

 

If there is a shortfall lender will contact you as soon as possible after the sale of the property telling you that there is a shortfall debt. They will also let you know that the shortfall debt may be pursued by another company.

If interest is being charged on the shortfall debt, your lender will send you regular, written financial statements which will update you on how much you owe. It is important that you keep your lender informed of your new address after you leave the property so that you receive these statements.

The action that your lender takes will depend on the circumstances. A lender may or may not wish to seek repayment of the shortfall debt, but if they do they must notify you within six years.

How long after the repossession can lenders seek the recovery of the debt?

 

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a lender legally has 12 years to contact you to begin the process of seeking repayment of a shortfall debt; this period is usually 5 years in Scotland.

 

However, lenders are committed to fair and sympathetic treatment of people who have suffered repossession, and accept that individuals should not face long delays before being contacted to discuss repaying the shortfall. Most lenders will contact you fairly soon after possession to try to agree to a manageable arrangement for repaying all or some of the debt.

 

Lenders who are members of the Council of Mortgage Lenders voluntarily agreed from 11 February 2000 to begin all recovery action for a shortfall within six years of the sale of a repossessed property. If your property was taken into possession and sold more than six years ago, and you have not been contacted by your lender to recover any outstanding debt, you will not now be asked to pay the shortfall. In Scotland, lenders will begin recovery action within five years.

Does this time limit apply to every case?

 

The new time limit will not affect you if -

  • you are already adhering to alternative payment arrangements for the shortfall debt;
  • or, you have already been contacted by your lender, even if the initial contact was made by the lender after six years from the date of the sale of the property in possession.

The six year limit only refers to beginning recovery action and does not affect a lender's ability to recover the shortfall debt over a longer period. If there is evidence of mortgage fraud, the time limit will not apply.

 

After a repossessed property is sold, lenders can often find it difficult to contact former borrowers to advise them of any surplus monies or shortfall debt. If this is the case, your lender will use a variety of measures to identify where you are now living. This might include using tracing agents. If your lender or its third party agent are trying to contact you (for example, by letter or telephone) to discuss repayment of the shortfall, but you choose to ignore such contact (despite the fact that the contact is being made at your new address) then your lender will consider that contact has been made within the six year limit. If you are unclear whether contact has been made within the six year period, your lender will be able to tell you.

 

This is a general summary and the exact way your lender deals with you may depend on the type of mortgage and the date it was entered into.

 

 


Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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this is from the CML web site.

 

Just a thought is it actually the original lenders chasing or has a company "purchased" the debt?

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi there, thank you for that. I believe it is another company that has bought the debt.

 

I have since found out that my ex wants to sell his house and that is how they have found him because they want to take the money off any profit.

 

To be honest I haven't seen anything at all that actually refers to me or the repossessed house. :confused:

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